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St Johnstone FC Thread

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3 hours ago, Merkland Red said:

You're in a shitey situation to be honest. You can't offer a longer contract in case they are a flop and you can't get rid of them. Due to contract length and the unlikelihood of them extending on the back of some stellar performances you're unlikely to e ver be in a position to sell the player either.

Situation become even shitier when you consider than we cant really make a competitive offer to extend contracts until we are certain what division we'll be in next year.  Happy to be corrected if wrong but I think most of our expiring contracts only ever get renegotiated once either in the Top 6 or confirmed safe from relegation.    

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

You don't like former players do you?

If Shaughnessy was available for nothing would you take him back?

I have nothing against former players, the smiley was tongue in cheek. As said MOH has been more than useful in this spell and may well go on to better things. May needs a partner up front hence, he is not living up to his previous performances. Swanson is Swanson.

I would take Shaughnessy back in a heart beat. 

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All the debate about giving the OF three stands.....some of it is very interesting. For what it's worth, I don't have a real opinion on it, other than in an ideal world it wouldn't happen.

Saints have tried to encourage more people through the gates but the truth as i see it is they have more or less only been preaching to the converted.

It's a while ago now, but the Scottish Cup win in 2014 was a prime example of the club, quite literally, falling asleep - we had, what, 15/16k whatever it was, people at that final and it might be reasonably presumed that the majority had an interest/love/whatever with Saints that had for whatever reason died away and needed something like the SC run to pull them back in.

Sadly, the biggest opportunity Saints ever had as club was ignored/wasted - call it what you want - and the club fell silent for some weeks after that success. The feel good factor in the town and wider area and the genuine buzz in the build up, and immediate aftermath with the parade, should have been used as a foundation for Saints to try and get even some of those people to come back regularly. Even 10/15% of those at the final who weren't regulars becoming so would have been massive in the short term.

Instead of a massive fanfare in the town - I'll always believe they should have been down in the centre the Monday onwards getting people to commit to buying Season Tickets, shirts, lotto, you name it - there was just silence. For weeks.

The season tickets eventually were announced I think about the end of June that year, fully 6/7 weeks after the final and by then much of the goodwill had died. It's not to say that any additional ST holders signed up that summer would still remain today, but it's not inconceivable to imagine a few would still hang around. The initial impact, financially, would have been brilliant for the club and the domino effect follows - pies, juice etc at the game.

Yeah, Saints have made efforts to put bums on seats, but really, nowhere near enough. They make little effort with merchandise etc - just ask the people at Campus and pass up opportunity after opportunity.

Really, and this isn't necessarily a critical view, but we're essentially an amateur football club playing full time football.

So, whatever their reasons for this decision, and whoever they might be blaming, the closer truth is they are to blame in equal measure for the situation we find ourselves.

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34 minutes ago, scottmcleanscontacts said:

Really, and this isn't necessarily a critical view, but we're essentially an amateur football club playing full time football.

So, whatever their reasons for this decision, and whoever they might be blaming, the closer truth is they are to blame in equal measure for the situation we find ourselves.

This is the view i have of our club. It could be run so much better and far more professionally, but that's an extra cost. Deep down it's too big a gamble for wee Broon, especially as they've got away with it for so long. I think we need to just get used to it until they pass the club on.

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55 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

This is the view i have of our club. It could be run so much better and far more professionally, but that's an extra cost. Deep down it's too big a gamble for wee Broon, especially as they've got away with it for so long. I think we need to just get used to it until they pass the club on.

The problem we have is the club and it's employees at the top do not believe for one second the way it's run is amatuer.

If you provide feedback you're just seen as a moany fan of the club. 

If that's how feedback is handled things will never change. If a normal business was as dismissive to customer feedback as our club has been in the past they'd already be out of business. 

Although it does seem on the outside with the new fans forums etc that they're trying to listen. They've had similar concepts before, there was the infamous "secret 7" etc. Was any feedback taken onboard and actioned? I don't think so..

Edited by Mr Positive, sometimes.

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It feels like this is the wrong time to be moaning about how our club is run, off the back of our most successful decade in the business, but here we are.

Think of the diddies down the road lads, that always cheers me up.

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3 hours ago, tree house tam said:

This is the view i have of our club. It could be run so much better and far more professionally, but that's an extra cost. Deep down it's too big a gamble for wee Broon, especially as they've got away with it for so long. I think we need to just get used to it until they pass the club on.

I'm not convinced that the club has 'got away with it'. Or if we are, we've been getting away with it for a weirdly long time. Look at it another way: we've been, by some distance, the most successful diddy club in Scotland over the last decade. Profitable and hugely successful. Until this season, Saints were a case study in how to run a football club. 

Past performance, etc etc. But too often the criticism goes too far the other way. The complaints are often nebulous (what does more 'professional' actually mean practically?). Or when the arguments turn specific (we should have a director of football or a scouting infrastructure), the reasoning is equally vague: other clubs do it.

I'm not saying we should leave things as they are, more that change for the sake of it rarely works as planned. What have Dundee's various directors of football achieved?  Was Dundee United's well-established scouting infrastructure much help in their relegation season? Do Hearts fans believe a Director of Football, or its investment in a scouting network is worth much right now?

 

Edited by Mr Heliums

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1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

It feels like this is the wrong time to be moaning about how our club is run, off the back of our most successful decade in the business, but here we are.

Think of the diddies down the road lads, that always cheers me up.

And you're right as well.

I noticed you asked above what people mean by being more professional. @Mr Heliums

I guess people are just frustrated as many will see it of a chance to make real gains off the park too. Best decade on the park has not increased crowds etc. 

For me it's just summed up by own experiences and interactions with the club that have been at times mindboggling. 3-4 experiences but one example I think it was Dec 2018 I went into the ticket office to get a half season ticket as a Christmas gift. 

4 staff members in the ticket office and I had to leave without making a purchase because "none of us know how to do it". For me that sums up my feelings very accurately. 

 

Edited by Mr Positive, sometimes.

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2 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

I'm not convinced that the club has 'got away with it'. Or if we are, we've been getting away with it for a weirdly long time. Look at it another way: we've been, by some distance, the most successful diddy club in Scotland over the last decade. Profitable and hugely successful. Until this season, Saints were a case study in how to run a football club. 

Past performance, etc etc. But too often the criticism goes too far the other way. The complaints are often nebulous (what does more 'professional' actually mean practically?). Or when the arguments turn specific (we should have a director of football or a scouting infrastructure), the reasoning is equally vague: other clubs do it.

I'm not saying we should leave things as they are, more that change for the sake of it rarely works as planned. What have Dundee's various directors of football achieved?  Was Dundee United's well-established scouting infrastructure much help in their relegation season? Do Hearts fans believe a Director of Football, or its investment in a scouting network is worth much right now?

 

Ignoring on the pitch stuff, then the main complaint I have is they dont try and keep you as a fan/tempt you to games.

My experience is causing that opinion.

I dont have a season ticket, but ever since the online ticketing has come in I've used it to buy tickets for home games, maybe once or twice I havent early on. Every time I do this I enter my name, address, email address and click a wee box asking I want to recieve emails from the club about promotions/offers/events.

I've had a Saints TV subscription since it came out. Requires your name, address and emain address again.

If I go into the club for a ticket for an OF game, they tell me I'm not on the clubs database. I've never once had an email from the club beyond them emailing me the match ticket. Never had anything through my door. To the club, I dont exist.

I'm a regular fan who's email address is known to them through two different services, and who tells them it every single week, yet I'd have no idea half season tickets were for sale if I didnt go onto their Twitter. They should be peppering me with emails, if I dont buy a ticket for a few games I should be getting those annoying "miss you" emails.

Stuff like that makes them come across as if theres a lack of real effort. Like the initial idea is there but it's never actually followed through.

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Know a few of you hate these things.. 

Poor finishing as much to blame as poor defending?

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Just now, tree house tam said:

Am I the only c**t who hates this xG pish?

I’m with you on this. Utter fucking nonsense stat. 

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I’m with you on this. Utter fucking nonsense stat. 


Correct. You can’t quantify that sort of thing.

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Am I the only c**t who hates this xG pish?


Bollocks of the highest order

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Ignoring on the pitch stuff, then the main complaint I have is they dont try and keep you as a fan/tempt you to games.
My experience is causing that opinion.
I dont have a season ticket, but ever since the online ticketing has come in I've used it to buy tickets for home games, maybe once or twice I havent early on. Every time I do this I enter my name, address, email address and click a wee box asking I want to recieve emails from the club about promotions/offers/events.
I've had a Saints TV subscription since it came out. Requires your name, address and emain address again.
If I go into the club for a ticket for an OF game, they tell me I'm not on the clubs database. I've never once had an email from the club beyond them emailing me the match ticket. Never had anything through my door. To the club, I dont exist.
I'm a regular fan who's email address is known to them through two different services, and who tells them it every single week, yet I'd have no idea half season tickets were for sale if I didnt go onto their Twitter. They should be peppering me with emails, if I dont buy a ticket for a few games I should be getting those annoying "miss you" emails.
Stuff like that makes them come across as if theres a lack of real effort. Like the initial idea is there but it's never actually followed through.
People are different though Random. I also use the online ticket purchasing facility. If I missed a couple of games and was getting peppered with "miss you " emails then it would just annoy the f**k out of me. If people need wee reminders to go to the fitba then it's unlikely to become a way of life to them.

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Correct. You can’t quantify that sort of thing.


If you take Murray Davidson’s number, he had a shot from about three yards out against Rangers in the centre of the goal that almost entirely crossed the line only for it to be miraculously Stopped by a defender and cleared. That would be worth about 0.97 xG or something massive like that, or in other words more than 1/3 of his total. That in then makes it look like he’s missed a hatful of chances when he in reality hasn’t.

I think it has some use as a stat but it can also be misleading.

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8 minutes ago, The Marly said:
2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:
Ignoring on the pitch stuff, then the main complaint I have is they dont try and keep you as a fan/tempt you to games.
My experience is causing that opinion.
I dont have a season ticket, but ever since the online ticketing has come in I've used it to buy tickets for home games, maybe once or twice I havent early on. Every time I do this I enter my name, address, email address and click a wee box asking I want to recieve emails from the club about promotions/offers/events.
I've had a Saints TV subscription since it came out. Requires your name, address and emain address again.
If I go into the club for a ticket for an OF game, they tell me I'm not on the clubs database. I've never once had an email from the club beyond them emailing me the match ticket. Never had anything through my door. To the club, I dont exist.
I'm a regular fan who's email address is known to them through two different services, and who tells them it every single week, yet I'd have no idea half season tickets were for sale if I didnt go onto their Twitter. They should be peppering me with emails, if I dont buy a ticket for a few games I should be getting those annoying "miss you" emails.
Stuff like that makes them come across as if theres a lack of real effort. Like the initial idea is there but it's never actually followed through.

People are different though Random. I also use the online ticket purchasing facility. If I missed a couple of games and was getting peppered with "miss you " emails then it would just annoy the f**k out of me. If people need wee reminders to go to the fitba then it's unlikely to become a way of life to them.

I don't think his point was literally that he wants the club to email him 'miss you' messages if he's doesn't buy a ticket.  I think the point is that he's registered with them countless times and to them as a customer he doesn't exist.  Why should he have to go through that process every single time.  And the saintstv one is a pain in the eres, I rarely go on it as I can't remember my password so don't bother looking it out and going on a lot of the time.  They could be sending Saints merchandise email promos in the build upto Christmas to upto 10000 - 15000 affiliated folk and rake in a fair amount of money, but there's f**k all.

Same with the half ST example given a few posts ago. It's very basic stuff to get right, just needs someone to get a grip of it.  As has been said for years.

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I dread season ticket renewal time. I've had issues just getting a hold of the fucking thing in 4 of the last 5 seasons, each time it's been a different issue. Agree the club need to do more in terms of contacting people who have given their email addresses etc over. 

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Ignoring on the pitch stuff, then the main complaint I have is they dont try and keep you as a fan/tempt you to games.
My experience is causing that opinion.
I dont have a season ticket, but ever since the online ticketing has come in I've used it to buy tickets for home games, maybe once or twice I havent early on. Every time I do this I enter my name, address, email address and click a wee box asking I want to recieve emails from the club about promotions/offers/events.
I've had a Saints TV subscription since it came out. Requires your name, address and emain address again.
If I go into the club for a ticket for an OF game, they tell me I'm not on the clubs database. I've never once had an email from the club beyond them emailing me the match ticket. Never had anything through my door. To the club, I dont exist.
I'm a regular fan who's email address is known to them through two different services, and who tells them it every single week, yet I'd have no idea half season tickets were for sale if I didnt go onto their Twitter. They should be peppering me with emails, if I dont buy a ticket for a few games I should be getting those annoying "miss you" emails.
Stuff like that makes them come across as if theres a lack of real effort. Like the initial idea is there but it's never actually followed through.


I’ve had exactly the same problems, absolute amateurs in the ticket office.
I’ve gave my details umpteen times only to be told your not on the database, never once been contacted having gave my e mail umpteen times,it’s run by incompetents.

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