Jump to content
Kyle

St Johnstone FC Thread

Recommended Posts

What is the prize money difference between each place in the bottom 6? Around £100k or so? Add on the television revenue for next season.
Unless you're getting decent enough cash to fill the gaps you have in other places (even short term loans) then it's not worthwhile selling him,. Especially to Hearts.


Yeah it’s not the prize money that’s the issue here, it’s the increased TV revenue deal that’s on place for next year. I don’t know the exact figures, but if we go down we’ll lose out on hundreds of thousands. Also add in to that, the potential for 2 visits from a rejuvenated Dundee United and all of a sudden it’s looking almost imperative we stay in the league. Not because we need the money, but because if we’re to actually try to push on again and look up the league, these are the things that add just that little more into our budget and bring in an extra player or two.

Either way, unless it’s 250k plus there’s no way saints will be entertaining letting him go. We’ve had players sign deals elsewhere and play some of their best football, so there’s no worries that he’d be a negative influence he’s not that sort. Plus I don’t think any saints fan would begrudge him a move to a better team with a high wage, we’re not that sort.

As I say, still not convinced he won’t actually sign a new deal at saints, but if he doesn’t then he won’t be going anywhere, especially the longer this drags on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

What is the prize money difference between each place in the bottom 6? Around £100k or so? Add on the television revenue for next season.

Unless you're getting decent enough cash to fill the gaps you have in other places (even short term loans) then it's not worthwhile selling him,. Especially to Hearts.

Aberdeen fans seem to understand this better than some Saints fans I see on social medial, and it would be to their benefit if we did sell for a shitey 5 figure sum.

Decent cash and/or quality players iin return and Saints should talk. Otherwise, nut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Widge said:

 


Yeah it’s not the prize money that’s the issue here, it’s the increased TV revenue deal that’s on place for next year. I don’t know the exact figures, but if we go down we’ll lose out on hundreds of thousands. Also add in to that, the potential for 2 visits from a rejuvenated Dundee United and all of a sudden it’s looking almost imperative we stay in the league. Not because we need the money, but because if we’re to actually try to push on again and look up the league, these are the things that add just that little more into our budget and bring in an extra player or two.

Either way, unless it’s 250k plus there’s no way saints will be entertaining letting him go. We’ve had players sign deals elsewhere and play some of their best football, so there’s no worries that he’d be a negative influence he’s not that sort. Plus I don’t think any saints fan would begrudge him a move to a better team with a high wage, we’re not that sort.

As I say, still not convinced he won’t actually sign a new deal at saints, but if he doesn’t then he won’t be going anywhere, especially the longer this drags on.

 

If we're going to get him then I'd want him now but he isn't worth bursting the bank for at this point. It's good to have him in and get up to speed quickly with next season in mind (like Devlin) and it would be a total nightmare if he gets an injury playing for St Johnstone.

On the flip side there's probably more chance of him playing 90 minutes every week at St Johnstone at the moment as we seem to be changing our set up every couple of weeks.

5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Aberdeen fans seem to understand this better than some Saints fans I see on social medial, and it would be to their benefit if we did sell for a shitey 5 figure sum.

Decent cash and/or quality players iin return and Saints should talk. Otherwise, nut.

We went through similar with Cardiff and Jonny Hayes and he wasn't even out of contract. They offered us several deals valued around £600k but just structured differently. Finishing second rather than third is worth around £1m. We also got to the cup final that year. He left in the summer to go to Celtic for an offer of around the same and Christie on loan. Keeping him was huge as we'd never have replaced him with however much of the £600k McInnes would have been allowed to spend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If we're going to get him then I'd want him now but he isn't worth bursting the bank for at this point. It's good to have him in and get up to speed quickly with next season in mind (like Devlin) and it would be a total nightmare if he gets an injury playing for St Johnstone.

On the flip side there's probably more chance of him playing 90 minutes every week at St Johnstone at the moment as we seem to be changing our set up every couple of weeks.

We went through similar with Cardiff and Jonny Hayes and he wasn't even out of contract. They offered us several deals valued around £600k but just structured differently. Finishing second rather than third is worth around £1m. We also got to the cup final that year. He left in the summer to go to Celtic for an offer of around the same and Christie on loan. Keeping him was huge as we'd never have replaced him with however much of the £600k McInnes would have been allowed to spend.

Exactly. It seems Aberdeen fans are in fact my spirit animal. Matty Kennedy staying could be the difference between us staying up and going down. If we lose his goals and assists, we don't have anyone we can rely on to pick up the slack. If we go down we'll be talking about losing a similar amount to what you guys would've done if you finished 3rd. It's really not worth the risk of the short term boost of £50k or whatever. It might negate the need to dump others from the squad that we seem to be having trouble shifting, but it's just about the worst possible scenario for us.

 

Edited by Kyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Aberdeen fans seem to understand this better than some Saints fans I see on social medial, and it would be to their benefit if we did sell for a shitey 5 figure sum.

Decent cash and/or quality players iin return and Saints should talk. Otherwise, nut.

 

9 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

We went through similar with Cardiff and Jonny Hayes and he wasn't even out of contract. They offered us several deals valued around £600k but just structured differently. Finishing second rather than third is worth around £1m. We also got to the cup final that year. He left in the summer to go to Celtic for an offer of around the same and Christie on loan. Keeping him was huge as we'd never have replaced him with however much of the £600k McInnes would have been allowed to spend.

This was largely our argument when Moult was in the final year of his deal and knocked back Aberdeen's offer of £350k in the summer (which rubbed Willie Miller and Richard Gordon the wrong way). Our position was that he had a certain value in the team and that - unless a team met that - we'd rather keep him and have him on the park until his contract expired than move him on for less.

In the end he went to Preston for £500k (having bodied Aberdeen out the League Cup) but that's the sort of thing that probably takes a lot of sorting out in advance and probably brings you round to the conversations from last week about the club actually sitting down with the player and his agent and making a decision to actively try and move him on.

It seems daft - on a Dundee/Glen Kamara level - to be completely reactive and just take a nominal amount simply because it's on offer. Even more so given Saints position.

Edited by capt_oats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, capt_oats said:

 

This was largely our argument when Moult was in the final year of his deal and knocked back Aberdeen's offer of £350k in the summer (which rubbed Willie Miller and Richard Gordon the wrong way). Our position was that he had a certain value in the team and that - unless a team met that - we'd rather keep him and have him on the park until his contract expired than move him on for less.

In the end he went to Preston for £500k (having bodied Aberdeen out the League Cup) but that's the sort of thing that probably takes a lot of sorting out in advance and probably brings you round to the conversations from last week about the club actually sitting down with the player and his agent and making a decision to actively try and move him on.

It seems daft - on a Dundee/Glen Kamara level - to be completely reactive and just take a nominal amount because it's on offer.

Yeah, that's it. And it's not rocket science.

You make an estimate of what a player is worth to keep him for 6 months based on prize money, avoiding relegation etc, then you set a sale price at a decent premium above that. If it comes on deadline day and you can't replace him then you increase that premium.

The idea that you should be grateful just to receive a nominal sum of money because you receive nothing in 6 months is simpleton thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Exactly. It seems Aberdeen fans are in fact my spirit animal. Matty Kennedy staying could be the difference between us staying up and going down. If we lose his goals and assists, we don't have anyone we can rely on to pick up the slack. If we go down we'll be talking about losing a similar amount to what you guys would've done if you finished 3rd. It's really not worth the risk of the short term boost of £50k or whatever. It might negate the need to dump others from the squad that we seem to be having trouble shifting, but it's just about the worst possible scenario for us.

 

Exactly.

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

 

This was largely our argument when Moult was in the final year of his deal and knocked back Aberdeen's offer of £350k in the summer (which rubbed Willie Miller and Richard Gordon the wrong way). Our position was that he had a certain value in the team and that - unless a team met that - we'd rather keep him and have him on the park until his contract expired than move him on for less.

In the end he went to Preston for £500k (having bodied Aberdeen out the League Cup) but that's the sort of thing that probably takes a lot of sorting out in advance and probably brings you round to the conversations from last week about the club actually sitting down with the player and his agent and making a decision to actively try and move him on.

It seems daft - on a Dundee/Glen Kamara level - to be completely reactive and just take a nominal amount simply because it's on offer.

I wanted May over Moult but in hindsight I can see I was a mile off with that one. That deal ended up being worth at least a million to you in total.

Some of our fans complained that Hayes was sold to Celtic and should have been sold to Cardiff months before. Not a chance we'd have ahd the finish we did without him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah, that's it. And it's not rocket science.

You make an estimate of what a player is worth to keep him for 6 months based on prize money, avoiding relegation etc, then you set a sale price at a decent premium above that. If it comes on deadline day and you can't replace him then you increase that premium.

The idea that you should be grateful just to receive a nominal sum of money because you receive nothing in 6 months is simpleton thinking.

It's a fine line. I couldn't believe Bournemouth didn't sell Fraser because they couldn't replace his quality with the money he'd be sold for.

They're going to have to replace him for nothing this summer with no idea what league they'll be in. You'd expect a club in that league to have shortlist of potential targets as soon as the lad knocked back a new contract. St Johnstone probably been caught out by us approaching the player and themselves so early in the window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are people talking about Kennedy like he’s Messi? He’s been a great player us but him leaving doesn’t automatically mean we’ll be relegated. Maybe not trying to force every move through Kennedy might benefit the rest of the team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

It's a fine line. I couldn't believe Bournemouth didn't sell Fraser because they couldn't replace his quality with the money he'd be sold for.

They're going to have to replace him for nothing this summer with no idea what league they'll be in. You'd expect a club in that league to have shortlist of potential targets as soon as the lad knocked back a new contract. St Johnstone probably been caught out by us approaching the player and themselves so early in the window.

Seems like Bournemouth have gambled and lost. They've been absolute dog shit this season so no one is paying big money for Fraser now.

Surprised they were able to turn down the money talked about too. Now eating into the £50m we are due for Fraser, Mckenna and Cosgrove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said:

Why are people talking about Kennedy like he’s Messi? He’s been a great player us but him leaving doesn’t automatically mean we’ll be relegated. Maybe not trying to force every move through Kennedy might benefit the rest of the team

I don't think wanting something close to his value to the team is 'talking about him like he's Messi' to be honest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I don't think wanting something close to his value to the team is 'talking about him like he's Messi' to be honest. 

I'd like to think Aberdeen will make a £50k January bid for Messi when his contract is running down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51088416 

Aberdeen pre-contract 'close' but seems likely Kennedy will be with us untl the end of his contract. 

 

Edit: he confirms what we all knew anyway - no new signings until we move players on. We've also made a pre-contract offer to Shaun Rooney.

Edited by Kyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kyle said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51088416 

Aberdeen pre-contract 'close' but seems likely Kennedy will be with us untl the end of his contract. 

We have no real immediate need and I'm fairly certain the two managers have a decent working relationship. It's maybe only really worth it if there was a sell on clause anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he does go this window you can almost guarantee it will be for 'Undisclosed Fee' and we will be left speculating what is was. 

I can't see us letting him go because neither Hearts or Aberdeen are likely to offer more than a 5 figure sum - however there might be a decision to make if we were offered the chance to sell him cheaply but with a sell-on clause included.     

Edited by PSJSaint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going to be a long windows then. As Tommy tries to offload the dead wood he's accumulated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, PSJSaint said:

If he does go this window you can almost guarantee it will be for 'Undisclosed Fee' and we will be left speculating what is was. 

I can't see us letting him go because neither Hearts or Aberdeen are likely to offer more than a 5 figure sum - however there might be a decision to make if we were offered the chance to sell him cheaply but with a sell-on clause included.     

Don't worry. You'd find out in around three years time when Random and Ali are having a Friday evening row over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dick Van Dyke said:

Why are people talking about Kennedy like he’s Messi? He’s been a great player us but him leaving doesn’t automatically mean we’ll be relegated. Maybe not trying to force every move through Kennedy might benefit the rest of the team

We're the lowest scorers in the league, Kennedy is our second top scorer and has 3 times as many assists as anyone else in our squad.

Hard to understand why people want to keep him tbqh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

We're the lowest scorers in the league, Kennedy is our second top scorer and has 3 times as many assists as anyone else in our squad.

Hard to understand why people want to keep him tbqh. 

I can see his point though. When Kennedy's on fire he's fantastic. But when he's not playing so well we still try to go through him. Against St Mirren - 90 minutes that I'd love to get back - you could see Wright drifting in from one wing to pass to Kennedy on the other. To no effect.

That said, I agree with others that we shouldn't be accepting anything short of six figures for him.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...