Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Bose]

Our fanbase seems different. 
12/13, this is the table.

Our next two games are home games against ICT and County. The crowd didn't breach 2500 for either game.
We got over 5000 for the final game against Motherwell.
It just suggests the fair weather fans only come out for the big day.
Did we even sell 5000 tickets for the Scottish Cup Semi?

Don’t think we did but that day was better than the final for me.

A big day now has to be bigger. Relegation battle might not work but a fight for promotion would.

Also think the way we play or have played in the past couple of seasons hasn’t helped. I’m not saying it’s the most important factor but I’ve seen me not travelling up for a game because I’ve thought the entertainment doesn’t outweigh the journey. And I’ve got a season ticket. Once people start to drift away it’s difficult to get them back particularly as you get older. That’s why the attitude to the team and fans after the cup win is so difficult to understand. Easier to keep fans than get them back.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

This meltdown some folk are having about this is verging on pathetic. It's fine for people to have an opinion but people are taking it a bit personally even some suggesting it's an active green like in support of sectarianism

It's about money. Simple as that. If our fans bothered turning up then this would be a non issue. 

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

This meltdown some folk are having about this is verging on pathetic. It's fine for people to have an opinion but people are taking it a bit personally even some suggesting it's an active green like in support of sectarianism

It's about money. Simple as that. If our fans bothered turning up then this would be a non issue. 

I find it bizarre the folk who are claiming theyll now boycott Saints entirely by not buying season tickets etc.

What do they expect to achieve from that?

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Bose said:

 

Don’t think we did but that day was better than the final for me.

A big day now has to be bigger. Relegation battle might not work but a fight for promotion would.

Also think the way we play or have played in the past couple of seasons hasn’t helped. I’m not saying it’s the most important factor but I’ve seen me not travelling up for a game because I’ve thought the entertainment doesn’t outweigh the journey. And I’ve got a season ticket. Once people start to drift away it’s difficult to get them back particularly as you get older. That’s why the attitude to the team and fans after the cup win is so difficult to understand. Easier to keep fans than get them back.

 

Can't speak for home crowds as I dont know those figures, but our overall average attendance this season is about exactly the same as our title winning season.

[Bose]

I find it bizarre the folk who are claiming theyll now boycott Saints entirely by not buying season tickets etc.
What do they expect to achieve from that?

Have people used the word boycott or just that they won’t renew their season ticket? Boycott suggests that they have an aim, ie get the club to change their mind, while the other just suggests to me that they have had enough. The second is more concerning for the club as it sounds less like a tantrum.

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, Bose said:

 

Have people used the word boycott or just that they won’t renew their season ticket? Boycott suggests that they have an aim, ie get the club to change their mind, while the other just suggests to me that they have had enough. The second is more concerning for the club as it sounds less like a tantrum.

 

Someone on Twitter has, but the place is a bit rife with everyone trying to outdo each other in outrage.

Rest of the comments are claims we're giving up an on pitch advantage (we regularly get humped, beat them last time we done it, and Livingston have a pretty good record), or suggestions of bringing back pay at the gate which let's OF fans mix with home fans.

Edited January 4, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[Bose]

Someone on Twitter has, but the place is a bit rife with everyone trying to outdo each other in outrage.

You can be happy/unhappy with the decision but also see the other side. I understand it and as I’ve done it before it’s not too hard although I think they should have tried to allocate seats. The timing seems a bit questionable to me. Been a while since we played either of the arse cheeks. As I’ve said previously I’m not sure they have tried enough or should I say the correct things to prevent this.

I can see why people are angry. They pay up front and see their season ticket as a commitment to the club and feel that that the club have moved the goal posts. There are reasons why this isn’t realistic but as you yourself are aware realism isn’t always present when fans are passionate about their team.

[capt_oats]

30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Can't speak for home crowds as I dont know those figures, but our overall average attendance this season is about exactly the same as our title winning season.

I'll try and avoid another dissertation but to back up your point here but also support @ali_91's comment yesterday about the problem with the "if you build it they will come" attitude:

Our average attendance in McCall's 2011/12 season (when we finished 3rd - the season Rangers went out of business) was 5,946 and the 2012/13 season when we finished 2nd it was 5,118. In comparison the 06/07 season under Malpas when we finished 10th the average attendance 5,877.

So a season we were 6 points off relegation had only 69 fewer (average) than a season we finished 'best of the rest' behind Celtic and Rangers.

Ultimately the idea that success on the park will equal increased crowds through the gates doesn't necessarily stand. There has to be something a bit more than that.

Hibs are probably a good example, yes they're a city club and also won the Scottish Cup recently and had all the feel good hype that came with it but at the turn of the last decade their average crowd was 12,164 (2009/10 finishing 4th). Last season their average home gate was 17,775 (in a season they finished 5th). That's a marked improvement.

Edited January 4, 2020 by capt_oats

[The Marly]

Our fanbase seems different. 
12/13, this is the table.

Our next two games are home games against ICT and County. The crowd didn't breach 2500 for either game.
We got over 5000 for the final game against Motherwell.
It just suggests the fair weather fans only come out for the big day.
Did we even sell 5000 tickets for the Scottish Cup Semi?

We sold just over 2000 for the semi final. Were you there?

[PauloPerth]

4 hours ago, Bose said:

 

You can be happy/unhappy with the decision but also see the other side. I understand it and as I’ve done it before it’s not too hard although I think they should have tried to allocate seats. The timing seems a bit questionable to me. Been a while since we played either of the arse cheeks. As I’ve said previously I’m not sure they have tried enough or should I say the correct things to prevent this.

I can see why people are angry. They pay up front and see their season ticket as a commitment to the club and feel that that the club have moved the goal posts. There are reasons why this isn’t realistic but as you yourself are aware realism isn’t always present when fans are passionate about their team.

 

Agree with you here Bose.  I accept the decision but can understand other season ticket holders being pissed off.

Like many, through work and other commitments I don’t think my season ticket is giving me any saving. The reasons many keep renewing are partly loyalty, partly to financially support the club, and probably mostly to get to sit in their own seat every game.

To take that away from your hardcore support, without any consultation or as much as an email is fairly pish, but standard Saints.

Someone suggested it in the meeting in august, but Stan and Steve both said it was something they discuss occasionally but there were no plans to do it anytime soon.

I hope this is purely to fund a signing or two in January, but I do wonder if the chairman has taken the huff following us only getting 2600 at home to Ross County in the holidays and seen other clubs get big boosts to their gate, e.g. Motherwell getting 6700, albeit different situation altogether, and it’s a big f**k you to our apathetic support.  Hopefully well wide of the mark, as it would be punishing the wrong folk.

Edited January 4, 2020 by PauloPerth

[RandomGuy.]

23 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I'll try and avoid another dissertation but to back up your point here but also support @ali_91's comment yesterday about the problem with the "if you build it they will come" attitude:

Our average attendance in McCall's 2011/12 season (when we finished 3rd - the season Rangers went out of business) was 5,946 and the 2012/13 season when we finished 2nd it was 5,118. In comparison the 06/07 season under Malpas when we finished 10th the average attendance 5,877.

So a season we were 6 points off relegation had only 69 fewer (average) than a season we finished 'best of the rest' behind Celtic and Rangers.

Ultimately the idea that success on the park will equal increased crowds through the gates doesn't necessarily stand. There has to be something a bit more than that.

Hibs are probably a good example, yes they're a city club and also won the Scottish Cup recently and had all the feel good hype that came with it but at the turn of the last decade their average crowd was 12,164 (2009/10 finishing 4th). Last season their average home gate was 17,775 (in a season they finished 5th). That's a marked improvement.

You look at Hibs then. 2001/02, 2002/03, 2003/04 all in the bottom half. Their average attendance in 2003/04?

9,150.

Three seasons directly after that, 2004/05, 2005/06, 2006/07, all top half finishes and a trophy. Average attendance in 2006/07?

14,488

Thats a 37% increase in crowds due to success on the park.

If you look at them in the Championship. Poor first season, second season average attendance? 9,291. Fight for the title second season, average attendance? 15,394. Thats a 40% increase in the same league, and they lost their biggest away crowd.

How can you look at that and claim on the pitch doesn't affect anything?

Edited January 4, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[PauloPerth]

Article in the paper today about this issue.  Our only home match this season against either OF club was against rangers a few months ago.

They’re pointing out only 1400 Saints fans attended, which is more than 500 lower than our next lowest home crowd of the season. 

 

[PauloPerth]

* just to clarify, that’s 500 lower on Saints supporters only, not on the overall home crowd as it maybe reads like.

[capt_oats]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You look at Hibs then. 2001/02, 2002/03, 2003/04 all in the bottom half. Their average attendance in 2003/04?

9,150.

Three seasons directly after that, 2004/05, 2005/06, 2006/07, all top half finishes and a trophy. Average attendance in 2006/07?

14,488

Thats a 37% increase in crowds due to success on the park.

If you look at them in the Championship. Poor first season, second season average attendance? 9,291. Fight for the title second season, average attendance? 15,394. Thats a 40% increase in the same league, and they lost their biggest away crowd.

How can you look at that and claim on the pitch doesn't affect anything?

You're missing the point a bit. You can have a good "product" but you still have to sell it, which is what I'm getting at. Simply assuming that winning games will see a proportionate rise doesn't necessarily happen.

I know she's not flavour of the month with a number of Hibees but the drop to the Championship you've mentioned also coincides with Dempster taking the Chief Executive role and IIRC she changed things up "off the park". There was an interview she did with the Nutmeg podcast a while back where she detailed the strategy and what they had set out to do - and based on the apparent uptake they've had it's worked.

Edited January 4, 2020 by capt_oats

[Green Day]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

You're missing the point a bit. You can have a good "product" but you still have to sell it, which is what I'm getting at. Simply assuming that winning games will see a proportionate rise doesn't necessarily happen.

I know she's not flavour of the month with a number of Hibees but the drop to the Championship you've mentioned also coincides with Dempster taking the Chief Executive role and IIRC she changed things up "off the park". There was an interview she did with the Nutmeg podcast a while back where she detailed the strategy and what they had set out to do - and based on the apparent uptake they've had it's worked.

Dont take this the wrong way...............but thats mince.

Dempster has done a lot of things - some good, some less so - but the uptick in crowds at ER has a direct correlation with on field success, not fannying around with community initiatives like the fat fighters stuff.

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Dont take this the wrong way...............but thats mince.

Dempster has done a lot of things - some good, some less so - but the uptick in crowds at ER has a direct correlation with on field success, not fannying around with community initiatives like the fat fighters stuff.

Absolutely fine with standing corrected on that.

[NFL12]

The best thing about this OF in three stands, will be when St J revert to only giving the OF two ( or one )stands. The seethe from Govan ( as if they own McDiarmid park) will be a laugh.

[Bose]

* just to clarify, that’s 500 lower on Saints supporters only, not on the overall home crowd as it maybe reads like.

Was this game on tv? My memory tells me it was and that’s one of the reasons I didn’t travel up. I don’t object to going. I even used to love going to Parkhead and Ibrox. Nowadays though I’ll admit to not making as much effort if it’s on tv.

[Jamie_B]

Was this game on tv? My memory tells me it was and that’s one of the reasons I didn’t travel up. I don’t object to going. I even used to love going to Parkhead and Ibrox. Nowadays though I’ll admit to not making as much effort if it’s on tv.

Yes.

The whole issue is enormously complex but for me the blame cuts both ways. People haven’t supported the club in numbers despite a decade of unparalleled success-what more can people want than numerous European campaigns, a Scottish cup win, multiple semi finals and top six finishes? But on the flip side, Saints haven’t done their part to drive home the positives. Two glaring examples are the failure to capitalise on the cup win in terms of selling season tickets and running off the young team when other clubs such as Motherwell have capitalised on similar groups of young fans (though there were outside factors there).

I’d have more of an issue if we hadn’t a) previously cut the OF allocation and b) if we were filling the seats ourselves. In the 90s Rangers/Celtic got 5500 seats plus at least half of the Ormond Stand when it was still a mixed zone. So at least 6500 tickets. We still regularly got results in spite of that. We’ve been offering one of, if not THE cheapest family deals in the league for years now, but uptake has been pitiful. We’ve been offering stuff like £10 tickets for friends/family of ST holders for OF games, but barely sold any. These games are just not attractive to a lot of people (I count myself in that number) and I absolutely understand people staying away.

Saying the club’s PR is crap is a bit simplistic IMO. It isn’t great, but it’s better than it used to be. However, they don’t do themselves any favours a lot of the time and don’t drive home the opportunities and messages they should be. IMO the club media and marketing team don’t have the bodies or budget they should and their remit is far too restricted to do what they need to do.

[PauloPerth]

7 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

I live over 2 hours away from Perth therefore it’s definitely not shite because of people like me. There’s plenty of other people in Perth and surrounding settlements that aren’t going to games. I’m not giving them a hard time for not going because I completely understand why they wouldn’t want to go.

 

In which case I apologise and take it back, I thought you were local.