Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Ray Patterson]

This is another reason why the 10,000 seater rule was a castrofuck. It was always gonna lead to the OF getting massive allocations at some grounds. Personally, I think the SPFL should bring in a rule for Premiership clubs that means that clubs must only sell a maximum of 49% of tickets to away fans. Otherwise you're going to have situations like this when Celtic and Rangers are going to given 3-4 extra home games a season. It's ruins the spirit of competition.

On a more serious note, in terms of crowds a stint in the second tier will probably do you some good in the medium term. It might revitalise the support, especially if you're going for a League Title every season. I remember the first few seasons you came up, there was about a core 3,000 home support to every game, it's completely vanished.

32 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Perthshire goes up till Aviemore and Rannoch fucking moor . You're not telling me these c***s want to come to McDiarmid on a saturday/wet Wednesday night.

No it doesn't. Perth and Kinross expands to Loch Tay in the West and not even as far as Dalwhinnie along the A9. Every part of Perth and Kinross is within a 55min drive of McDairmid.

So if I can travel from Aberdeen to Tannadice every second week, then people can drive down the A9 for 25 minutes.

Edited January 3, 2020 by ArabAuslander

[Bose]

One for those with the figures. How many available seats are there in the West Stand? How many season tickets do we have and therefore how many tickets will be up for sale to the public?

[tree house tam]

10 minutes ago, The_Craig said:

 

You say that is if the other teams are based in huge, vastly populated areas.

The town of Motherwell only has a population of around 32,000.

 

But have loads of fairly large places nearby, we have f**k all apart from glorious hills. Crieff is nearly as far as Dundee is away from Perth,  same as Dunkeld, Blairgowrie is as close to Dundee as Perth. We have a few wee villages like luncarty and Stanley but that's it.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Bose said:

One for those with the figures. How many available seats are there in the West Stand? How many season tickets do we have and therefore how many tickets will be up for sale to the public?

Main is around 3000, over double the amount of home fans who attended the last OF fixture at McDiarmid. 

[Kyle]

Just now, Bose said:

One for those with the figures. How many available seats are there in the West Stand? How many season tickets do we have and therefore how many tickets will be up for sale to the public?

Around 3,000 seats I think, and about 1,600 or season tickets I think. 

Given we can barely muster 1,500 home fans for these matches - which I assume includes hospiality - I don't think that's likely to be an issue. 

[RandomGuy.]

39 minutes ago, Dele said:

You're right, it is very simple. 

Your club was living outwith it's means.

No, we weren't, as we had more than enough money in the bank to cover it.

It's the equivalent of a millionaire putting £20k on a horse in the hope he doubles it. You wouldnt charge up to him and claim hes financially irresponsible would you?

The club, with the knowledge we had more than enough money to cover it  gave the fans the best part of a decade to avoid this situation and the fans didnt do their part 

[Derry Alli]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

No, we weren't, as we had more than enough money in the bank to cover it.

So you weren't overspending. You weren't speculating to accumulate you were simply spending more than you had coming in because you had enough in your back pocket to cover it. 

Now you don't have that in your back pocket you've just decided to sell your soul to the Old Firm fans to cover that. 

If it's really that simple, why doesn't everybody do that? 

 

[craigkillie]

18 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

This is another reason why the 10,000 seater rule was a castrofuck.

The only one current Premiership club whose stadium was built with the 10,000 seater rule in mind was Livingston, and its capacity has since been reduced well below that. Killie, Motherwell and St Johnstone already had their capacities way before 1998, while Ross County, St Mirren and Hamilton are all less than 10,000.

[Bose]

Around 3,000 seats I think, and about 1,600 or season tickets I think. 
Given we can barely muster 1,500 home fans for these matches - which I assume includes hospiality - I don't think that's likely to be an issue. 

I wasn’t saying that it would be. I just didn’t know the exact figures. So there will be 1500 or so for a public sale? Cheers

[capt_oats]

As @Swello said on the other page we've done both.

There's a thread on Steelmen from 2009 moaning about precisely that - Cooper stand ST holders being relocated. The attendance reported for the game in question was 8,593 (a 1-1 draw against Celtic in case you're interested). The attendance at our home fixture against Celtic this season was 8,822 which was with us giving them the Away stand only.

Obviously the St Johnstone argument here is they've not shown any growth with the home support and the fact they can monetise those empty seats. If the club are throwing their hands up and saying "Well we've tried everything" we may as well have a cash grab then kind of fair enough. If the fans aren't particularly bothered (and I noticed a post on WAP actually applauding the decision) then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I suppose where with Motherwell specifically there's been no real change in attendances (see spoiler) whether the OF get an extra allocation or not (and increased stewarding/policing costs would eat into any profit) everything about the St Johnstone situation suggests that while it's clearly not a very good look the attendances will substantially increase for those games.

Spoiler

Taking the reported attendances of the last 2 seasons home games against them:

2017/18
06/08/17 - Rangers - 9,974 (first game of the season, Rangers first Premiership game after promotion)
29/11/17 - Celtic - 9,164
18/03/18 - Celtic - 8,717
31/03/18 - Rangers - 8,915

2018/19
26/08/18 - Rangers - 9,545
05/11/18 - Celtic - 8,433
07/04/19 - Rangers - 9,200

After "reduced" allocation this season:
2019/20
10/08/19 - Celtic - 8,822
15/12/19 - Rangers - 8,359

In the case of the Celtic fixture we actually had more bodies in than in 2 of the previous 3 fixtures.

Overall apart from Rangers first game in the big league you're looking at a minimal drop-off.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by capt_oats

[Kyle]

5 minutes ago, Dele said:

So you weren't overspending. You weren't speculating to accumulate you were simply spending more than you had coming in because you had enough in your back pocket to cover it. 

Now you don't have that in your back pocket you've just decided to sell your soul to the Old Firm fans to cover that. 

If it's really that simple, why doesn't everybody do that? 

 

Talk of selling souls and this being against sporting integrity as a Pars fan said earlier in this thread is a little bit dramatic. 2,200 seats that would otheriwse be empty are now being filled, albeit by opposition fans and about 1,000 saints fans will move from facing one way to facing another. 

Honestly, what a ridiculous overblown reaction all this has brought.  

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Kyle

[Doctor]

  

19 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

But have loads of fairly large places nearby, we have f**k all apart from glorious hills. Crieff is nearly as far as Dundee is away from Perth,  same as Dunkeld, Blairgowrie is as close to Dundee as Perth. We have a few wee villages like luncarty and Stanley but that's it.

 

You arn't wrong Tam but everyone in Blairgowrie either supports Celtic/Rangers, Tottenham or Barcelona 

[The_Craig]

But have loads of fairly large places nearby, we have f**k all apart from glorious hills. Crieff is nearly as far as Dundee is away from Perth,  same as Dunkeld, Blairgowrie is as close to Dundee as Perth. We have a few wee villages like luncarty and Stanley but that's it.

Aye, but of those big places, a large proportion of the population follow either Glasgow team. Motherwell fans are a most definitely in the minority despite them being the most successful team in the county.

Population doesn’t really matter.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Dele said:

So you weren't overspending. You weren't speculating to accumulate you were simply spending more than you had coming in because you had enough in your back pocket to cover it. 

Now you don't have that in your back pocket you've just decided to sell your soul to the Old Firm fans to cover that. 

If it's really that simple, why doesn't everybody do that? 

 

Because not everybody is financially competent enough to have cash reserves of over £2m. 

Financial irresponsibility wouldve been gambling like this when we had no money (like the Dundee sides, who are run beyond their means but are propped up by owners who pay off that debt every Summer). We had the money there to play with.

The chairman was clear when Rangers died that he was worried about the financial impact due to our crowds, but fans had reassured him if he voted the Sevco into tier four theyd make up what was lost financially. Since then hes lowered prices, increased the budget, and refused to allow increased OF crowds at McDiarmid. Hes done all this as the fans assured him theyd turn up. His hands are tied now, we either accept this increased revenue or we continue on the path we're on, which isnt leading anywhere.

In other words, its pointless looking at home attendances as a way to increase income, so hes having to find other ways to grow revenue and the club.

[Kyle]

5 minutes ago, Bose said:

 

I wasn’t saying that it would be. I just didn’t know the exact figures. So there will be 1500 or so for a public sale? Cheers

 

I'd guess  less than 1500 once hospitality is taken into account. Maybe 900 or so for general punters once everything else is taken into consideration.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Talk of selling souls and this being against sporting integrity as a Pars fan said earlier in this thread is a little bit dramatic. 2,200 seats that would otheriwse be empty are now being filled, albeit by opposition fans and about 1,000 saints fans will move from facing one way to facing another. 

Honestly, what a ridiculous overblown reaction all this has brought.  

 

Hes missing the point entirely.

Wont be long until we're told we won the Cup off the back of major over spending. 

You'll be able to taste the jealousy.

[Steve McQueen]

I'd genuinely steal Dundee's proposed idea & move 1 game a season away from Perth.

Think how many c***s we could fleece at Murrayfield/Dublin/etc.

[Kyle]

1 minute ago, Steve McQueen said:

I'd genuinely steal Dundee's proposed idea & move 1 game a season away from Perth.

Think how many c***s we could fleece at Murrayfield/Dublin/etc.

Definitely up for this too.

[RandomGuy.]

Also in sure it's just coincidence that its Dundee and Dunfermline fans, both of whom regularly have wee rants about how we must be cheating because we're better than them with smaller crowds, who are leading the charge here.

[Robin.Hood]

Also in sure it's just coincidence that its Dundee and Dunfermline fans, both of whom regularly have wee rants about how we must be cheating because we're better than them with smaller crowds, who are leading the charge here.

Kilmarnock fans are doing decent also.

Isnt it just 1 Dunfermline fan?