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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Theres absolutely nothing in that team that could create a goal. How are we meant to win games? 

For some reason my brain saw Kennedy in there instead of McCann. But MOH for McCann and Kennedy alongside May also an option. 

Point being single most important thing is to stop leaking goals. If that means drafting in the massive Estonian then it will of course mean compromising on some of the attacking options, but given the pish that was served up yesterday there are precious few who should expect a starting place now.

3/5 at the back at least until Gordon gets back and let's just see if we can manage a couple of clean sheets FFS.

Edited by Valentino Bolognese
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3 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

For some reason my brain saw Kennedy in there instead of McCann. But MOH for McCann and Kennedy alongside May also an option. 

Point being single most important thing is to stop leaking goals. If that means drafting in the massive Estonian then it will of course mean compromising on some of the attacking options, but given the pish that was served up yesterday there are precious few who should expect a starting place now.

3/5 at the back at least until Gordon gets back and let's just see if we can manage a couple of clean sheets FFS.

It feels far too overly simplistic to simply claim shoving five defenders on the park instead of four can solve any defensive issues. That line up, to me, would end up with the midfield three camped in front of the defenders and our only out ball being a hoof up the park to May who cant compete physically, Hendry who doesnt know how to compete physically, or Kane, who doesnt have any ability to do anything if he wins physically. A total slogfest where we just keep handing the ball back to opposition teams.

I'm not even convinced added another, inexperienced in this league, player into the absolute mess at the back will do anything other than add to the confusion anyway. 

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

It feels far too overly simplistic to simply claim shoving five defenders on the park instead of four can solve any defensive issues. That line up, to me, would end up with the midfield three camped in front of the defenders and our only out ball being a hoof up the park to May who cant compete physically, Hendry who doesnt know how to compete physically, or Kane, who doesnt have any ability to do anything if he wins physically. A total slogfest where we just keep handing the ball back to opposition teams.

I'm not even convinced added another, inexperienced in this league, player into the absolute mess at the back will do anything other than add to the confusion anyway. 

You might be right, but here's the thing. 

Doing what we've been doing so far is only going to have one outcome. So unless TW can somehow start getting the team to play like they've not just met each other in the tunnel, then something need to be done. 

I'm not actually saying it will solve anything. But doing nothing is not really an option either. 

And as it happens I disagree to an extent. If it was, say;

Ralston - 3xCB - Tanser

Holt Davidson MCCann

      Kennedy May

Then I would say that with Tanser and Ralston quite capable of getting forward, Holt quite attack minded and both Muzz and McCann being box to box then there are goals in the team. 

With Swanson, Wright, Hendry and MOH available there's impact from the bench too. That's in theory at least and not based on the evidence of yesterday. 

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IMG_3233.jpg

Not ideal in the circumstances and I know it’s harsh on McCann as well. I’d maybe be tempted to bring Craig in deeper and push Holt where I’ve got Kennedy and then leave Spoony out. It’s weird that I’m struggling to think what our best team is because we’ve got so many good attacking options, yet the defence is clearly the massive issue.

Having an international goalkeeper and two coaches who played at a high level in defence, they should be able to sort it out. First and foremost, attack any ball which enters the box and clear it at all costs. We’re not aggressive enough in our defending of balls and crosses. Kerr should be shoving people out the way to get his head on the ball. Clark should be forcing past people to punch the ball clear. Each and every one of them needs to stand up and put body and head on the line for the team. Ralston is decent and gets up and down the pitch, he’s also good at defending the back post. Tanser we know is capable of going forward well, he actually did yesterday but when he looked to release the ball nobody was moving an inch and he had no options at all.

For the next few games, I’d rather we put our foot under the ball and got it as far away from our own goal as possible and flood the midfield to win the second one. It’s not going to be pretty, but we need a clean sheet to kick start some belief and confidence in the back line. We may snatch something or create a goal doing that as well.

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7 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

You might be right, but here's the thing. 

Doing what we've been doing so far is only going to have one outcome. So unless TW can somehow start getting the team to play like they've not just met each other in the tunnel, then something need to be done. 

I'm not actually saying it will solve anything. But doing nothing is not really an option either. 

And as it happens I disagree to an extent. If it was, say;

Ralston - 3xCB - Tanser

Holt Davidson MCCann

      Kennedy May

Then I would say that with Tanser and Ralston quite capable of getting forward, Holt quite attack minded and both Muzz and McCann being box to box then there are goals in the team. 

With Swanson, Wright, Hendry and MOH available there's impact from the bench too. That's in theory at least and not based on the evidence of yesterday. 

To me, performances have been fine in terms of creating chances, and restricting chances, through the set up.

The issue we have is players making individual errors either through poor marking, decision making, or finishing.

I dont understand how changing everything is going to help. May wasnt isolated until we conceded and the players chucked it.

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

To me, performances have been fine in terms of creating chances, and restricting chances, through the set up.

The issue we have is players making individual errors either through poor marking, decision making, or finishing.

I dont understand how changing everything is going to help. May wasnt isolated until we conceded and the players chucked it.

See this is where I think I was watching a different game from you, and Tommy who believes we ‘dominated’. 
 

We didn’t dominate anything yesterday. And we’ve not dominated a game since I can remember. 
 

Yes Kennedy has a golden chance, but apart from that we were poor. 
 

I also thought it was clear from early on that we were going to concede from a punt up the middle. That was St Mirren’s main tactic and they were picking up lots of second balls. 
 

I said to my daughter I could count on one hand the number of times May touched the ball first half. Totally isolated for me. 

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Just now, Sh*teAndMuck said:

See this is where I think I was watching a different game from you, and Tommy who believes we ‘dominated’. 

We didn’t dominate anything yesterday. And we’ve not dominated a game since I can remember. 

Yes Kennedy has a golden chance, but apart from that we were poor. 

I also thought it was clear from early on that we were going to concede from a punt up the middle. That was St Mirren’s main tactic and they were picking up lots of second balls. 

I said to my daughter I could count on one hand the number of times May touched the ball first half. Totally isolated for me. 

Until St Mirren scored we had them pinned back, and all that was stopping more chances was our players being reluctant to shoot when given the chance and picking out an extra pass. Davidson and Kennedy both had shots just wide, Ralston forced a save from the keeper which almost dropped to May in the middle. 

Then we conceded and didnt create a single thing for the next hour.

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Until St Mirren scored we had them pinned back, and all that was stopping more chances was our players being reluctant to shoot when given the chance and picking out an extra pass. Davidson and Kennedy both had shots just wide, Ralston forced a save from the keeper which almost dropped to May in the middle. 

Then we conceded and didnt create a single thing for the next hour.

I agree with the last bit but I think us having them pinned back is a bit of a stretch. I didn’t feel we were in control of the game at any point. 
 

This has been the case all of 2019 in my opinion. Plenty of weeks Tommy reckons we’ve been in control when I’ve felt we’ve been far from it. 
 

Maybe I’m being overly harsh but... meh

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For the first 30 mins we were better team and looking more likely out of two pretty poor teams to score but pinned back? No chance. We looked shaky whenever St Mirren played even the most hopeful ball forward. The goal was no great surprise. And after that we just gave up. Most points have been covered but I’ve seen folk say Ralston is “fine” and “did nothing wrong”. Fundamentally disagree with that, he looks totally out his depth to me. Never thought I’d pine for Ricky Foster but he’d immediately improve that area. He’s far from alone in being poor but even after a day of reflection I think we are absolutely fucked. There’s issues in every single area of the team and the manager seems to have given up. Is Alex Cleland coming up with something different to present to the manager? I doubt it from observing him. Normally like to think of myself as fairly well balanced and not of the “knicker wetter” brigade but I’ve resigned myself to relegation now. Can’t see us winning a game as it stands. Saturday has 1-0 Accies, Blair Alston written all over it. Still we used to be the worst team in Britain and get 300 folk at home games, should be grateful we just exist.

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7 hours ago, Costanza said:

For the first 30 mins we were better team and looking more likely out of two pretty poor teams to score but pinned back? No chance. We looked shaky whenever St Mirren played even the most hopeful ball forward. The goal was no great surprise. And after that we just gave up. Most points have been covered but I’ve seen folk say Ralston is “fine” and “did nothing wrong”. Fundamentally disagree with that, he looks totally out his depth to me. Never thought I’d pine for Ricky Foster but he’d immediately improve that area. He’s far from alone in being poor but even after a day of reflection I think we are absolutely fucked. There’s issues in every single area of the team and the manager seems to have given up. Is Alex Cleland coming up with something different to present to the manager? I doubt it from observing him. Normally like to think of myself as fairly well balanced and not of the “knicker wetter” brigade but I’ve resigned myself to relegation now. Can’t see us winning a game as it stands. Saturday has 1-0 Accies, Blair Alston written all over it. Still we used to be the worst team in Britain and get 300 folk at home games, should be grateful we just exist.

I agree with the assessment of the game, we were nowhere near 'dominant'. Not as negative about Ralston though, my view is that he's a good young player missing a leader in the middle of the back line. Ditto Duffy, and probably Kerr. 

I also agree we have problems in all areas but these problems stem from the fundamental issue at the back. Sort that out the keeper and players forwards start to play with confidence again, and the talent is there. 

Simply can't bring myself to say I'm resigned to relegation as it's still too early in the season and we're not isolated (yet), but we need things to turn around and fast. 

Agree with Tam - where we were has no bearing on where we are. Not interested in being 'grateful we exist', that's defeatist pish and we need to remember we are long-standing Premiership team that's earned our right to be where we are. 

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41 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

we're not isolated (yet)

It doesnt matter. We need to get over 36 points and we'll survive.

10 wins makes that an easy target. You look at the "weaker" small sides as the aim (and theyll be looking at us the same way, before anyone starts). Gives you 4 games against Hamilton, and now 3 each against County, Livingston and St Mirren. You get 10 wins out those 13 games, you'll almost certainly stay up.

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5 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

It doesnt matter. We need to get over 36 points and we'll survive.

10 wins makes that an easy target. You look at the "weaker" small sides as the aim (and theyll be looking at us the same way, before anyone starts). Gives you 4 games against Hamilton, and now 3 each against County, Livingston and St Mirren. You get 10 wins out those 13 games, you'll almost certainly stay up.

Of course it matters how far we are behind. I understand that it doesn't make any difference to the arithmetic over a season, but it certainly matters for the morale of the team and the opposition, the attitude towards the management staff and the mood of the fans (and potentially crowd sizes). 

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18 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Of course it matters how far we are behind. I understand that it doesn't make any difference to the arithmetic over a season, but it certainly matters for the morale of the team and the opposition, the attitude towards the management staff and the mood of the fans (and potentially crowd sizes). 

I worry if we get too caught up with the gap, then we could just give up when it's not over.

We're 8 behind County, which might sound a lot just now, and could be enough for us to think we've no chance of overcoming them. Yet they could have a bad run in February/March, which would let us catch up. By then it could be over though as we've already given up.

Best approach in my mind is to just concentrate on ourselves and our own targets.

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