Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[tree house tam]

Tbh his laddie is half decent, small, controlling, good passing central midfielder.  We have a few ahead of him though, wasn't going to mention his name but f**k it, Kyle Green, former jeanfield youth the same as Ollie Hamilton who just made his debut.

[The Marly]

Tbh his laddie is half decent, small, controlling, good passing central midfielder.  We have a few ahead of him though, wasn't going to mention his name but f**k it, Kyle Green, former jeanfield youth the same as Ollie Hamilton who just made his debut.

Is the Auld Man's name Charles?[emoji3]

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, The Saintee said:

Possibly. It's unclear through his rambling but  he definitely thinks that TW has binned a promising striker. 

At least he's finally made a complaint though.

Claims hes made a complaint.

I can understand his frustration, we'd all be angry if our kid didn't make it, especially if Tams right and he is talented.

The only problem is hes posting virtual propaganda on WAP, and considering theres multiple posters on there demanding the team gets culled because we lost yesterday, it won't take long for there to be a chunk of supporters complaining about lack of opportunities for youth.

 

[PauloPerth]

So hard for young lads and their parents after having put so much time and commitment in over many years to be released.

But the thing to remember, is that if the club thought they were good enough to make it at first team level, they'd be given a contract. Regardless of everything, Saints nor any other club would release a player they thought was going to do well for them in the first team, and possibly make them money.

Unfortunately you can't offer every young player a contract.

Theres nothing set in stone at that age. Players kick on at different stages and ages, being released at one club doesn't mean the end of a career. Football is full of players who were released as a youngster and had to drop down a level, only to bounce back elsewhere.

There's one about to play in his second successive Champions League Final.

[tree house tam]

I think his laddie is decent and may well have made it but we have Ali McCann and Kyle McLean ahead of him before we even get to first team, being realistic it would've been years before he would be called on so its better he goes elsewhere,  Saints fan or not.

[andrewh]

I think his laddie is decent and may well have made it but we have Ali McCann and Kyle McLean ahead of him before we even get to first team, being realistic it would've been years before he would be called on so its better he goes elsewhere,  Saints fan or not.

My neighbours’ lads are with Saints youth but they support Hamilton. It’s a huge commitment to travel x days/evenings a week and almost have not much of a life yourselves as a family. Only maybe 1% make it through. Unless you’re outstanding it’s tough.

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, andrewh said:

My neighbours’ lads are with Saints youth but they support Hamilton. It’s a huge commitment to travel x days/evenings a week and almost have not much of a life yourselves as a family. Only maybe 1% make it through. Unless you’re outstanding it’s tough.

I know. Having played and coached I do realise this

It's a sacrifice most would do no matter what though.

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

I think his laddie is decent and may well have made it but we have Ali McCann and Kyle McLean ahead of him before we even get to first team, being realistic it would've been years before he would be called on so its better he goes elsewhere,  Saints fan or not.

So try and go the Andy Robertson route.

I get any father getting upset about his kid but making a complaint won't change a thing. If the lad is good enough, he'll play his way back into reckoning elsewhere and be picked up by a bigger club down the line.

I thought St. Mirren have let a few youth players go in recent times who would come back and bite us and until now, none have.

Most lads being let go are done so correctly in that they are not and never will be good enough for the level they are being released from. You get the odd buck in the trend - Kenny McLean (Rangers), Andy Robertson (Celtic), Craig Halkett (Rangers when in Championship) but in the majority of these cases, the club is proven correct.

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

So try and go the Andy Robertson route.

I get any father getting upset about his kid but making a complaint won't change a thing. If the lad is good enough, he'll play his way back into reckoning elsewhere and be picked up by a bigger club down the line.

I thought St. Mirren have let a few youth players go in recent times who would come back and bite us and until now, none have.

Most lads being let go are done so correctly in that they are not and never will be good enough for the level they are being released from. You get the odd buck in the trend - Kenny McLean (Rangers), Andy Robertson (Celtic), Craig Halkett (Rangers when in Championship) but in the majority of these cases, the club is proven correct.

The complaint is about a coaches conduct, not about being released and tbh if its true it does need reported.

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

The complaint is about a coaches conduct, not about being released and tbh if its true it does need reported.

Oh, well that's a different matter, yeah.

Did the mentioning of a complaint go in before or after the announcement of the lad's release? For obvious reasons.

[tree house tam]

Just now, djchapsticks said:

Oh, well that's a different matter, yeah.

Did the mentioning of a complaint go in before or after the announcement of the lad's release? For obvious reasons.

Parents were unhappy but didn't want to risk their sons chances, once they'd all been told that basically the whole squad were getting released then the complaints became more vocal. I can totally understand their position but there are ways and means of letting the head of youth coaching know what's going on and some other staff members were aware seemingly. 

[Muzza81]

Which coach is being reported? Sounds like this bumpkin is going all the wrong way about it, if something has occurred. 

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, ali_91 said:

I’d have more sympathy for the guy if he wasn’t slagging other parts of Saints, eg our crowds and our football, and focussed solely on something which, and this is a strong caveat, if true, is a serious issue. 

He's a The Rangers fan,  they can't help themselves. 

[djchapsticks]

6 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Parents were unhappy but didn't want to risk their sons chances, once they'd all been told that basically the whole squad were getting released then the complaints became more vocal. I can totally understand their position but there are ways and means of letting the head of youth coaching know what's going on and some other staff members were aware seemingly. 

Understandable but it will only resound as bitterness that they were willing to let things slide when the kid was under contract and only raise issues once he no longer had one, regardless of any private reservations that they may have had.

A mate of mine used to coach SMFC U11s and the coaches had to deal with this sort of thing on a constant basis.

[RandomGuy.]

On 14/05/2019 at 14:22, Kyle said:

Goalkeepers

1. Zander Clark (26) -2020

??. Ross Sinclair (17) - 2021

 

Defenders

19. Richard Foster (32) - 2020

6. Steven Anderson (32) - 2020 

3. Scott Tanser (23) - 2021

23. Liam Gordon (22) - 2021

15. Jason Kerr (21) - 2022

 

Midfielders

7. Drey Wright (23) - 2020

10. David Wotherspoon (28) - 2021

8. Murray Davidson (30) - 2020 + 1

28. Ross Callachan (24) - 2020

26. Liam Craig (31) - 2020

20. Kyle McClean (19) - 2020

18. Ali McCann (18) - 2020  

33. Matty Kennedy (23) - 2020

11. Danny Swanson (31) - 2020

 

Strikers

16. David McMillan (29) - 2020

9. Chris Kane (23) - 2020

17. Michael O'Halloran (28) - 2021

22. Callum Hendry (20) - 2020 

 

Contracts not resolved

24. Brian Easton

4.Blair Alston  (Was reported there was a year's extension clause in his contract based on appearances when he renewed his contract last summer)

 

Leaving the club

 Joe Shaughnessy

 Aaron Comrie (signed for Dunfermline)

Tony Watt (signed for CSKA Sofia)

 

Loans expired

Cammy Bell 

Niall Keown 

Sean Goss

 

We're probably a striker away from a very decent starting 11. Maybe a 2nd striker, a right back, a goalie, a midfielder and centre back on top of that?

RG's wishlist, in order of preference...

1. Striker, neither Kane or Hendry first choice quality for a top 6 team.
2. CB to compete with Kerr and Gordon, if Shaughnessy could be re-signed, I'd be happy to leave it with those three, as it seems Ando will be off.
3. CM to compete with/eventually succeed Craig. Nursing someone in while Craig is still capable gives us leeway in terms of their development. Craig has looked more than capable so position isn't as desperate as it was.
4. RB to compete with/replace Foster. If Shaughnessy stays, this could be pushed further down. Same situation as before, Foster still looks capable so allowing a younger player time to settle in while Foster mentors seems perfect.
5. GK to compete with/succeed Clark. Need better back up than Bell, and especially if Clark is leaving. If Clark is expected to remain, this isn't as desperate. If Clark looks like a goner stick this up to first place.
6. LW option to compete with/give a different option to Kennedy. A feeling Swanson might go, and while I like Wotherspoon there, a natural left winger would provide a different threat. Elliot Frear is an interesting example of a free agent who, numbers wise, is a better player than some clubs might notice.

Im working under the assumption Easton is remaining.

Edited May 19, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Tibbermoresaint]

53 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

RG's wishlist

Universal rule. People who refer to themselves in the third person are masters of the art of self-abuse.

[Radford]

I don't really have an order of preference as we need what we need. Hopefully the final contract issues will be resolved early next week and TW might give us a hint at what he's looking to do. 

Striker is self-explanatory as the manager has been open about that being a priority. I'd cut McMillan and think that would still leave us well covered when you consider that Kennedy and O'Halloran can play through the middle as well. 

The midfield will be one down without Goss/Nydam but they barely played. I'd lose Alston as well so the question becomes does he put faith in McClean and McCann filling those minutes or is this the time to bring in a player capable of playing in the role that Craig has been occupying. I thought this was important but the argument is you are putting an obstacle in front of the two youngsters and would anyone argue that Craig hasn't had a decent season? He's only 32 and the role he's now in doesn't require him getting about the park as much. He also has to be a prime candidate for the captaincy. 

Liam Gordon has done well but we need to bring in a centre back and if Anderson goes, you'll need another player capable of playing there as well. You can't run with three centre backs, especially when one will potentially attract bids. The scorned lover attitude towards Shaughnessy is a prime example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Keeping him solves two problems as we are well covered at centre back and he's backup for Foster. I wonder if the manager relegating him to the bench not only was to help Gordon establish himself but also to serve as a little warning to JS about what could lie in store if he simply chases the money.

The goalkeeping situation will depend on whether Clark will commit to a new deal. Saints will need to cash in if he doesn't and a reasonable offer presents itself, so need to be prepared for that eventuality. If he does extend his contract, then it becomes far less of an issue who you bring in. 

That bad run in the spring still nags in my mind but I don't think we need as big a summer as I maybe did a month or two ago. That can only be good. 

[Valentino Bolognese]

8 hours ago, Radford said:

That bad run in the spring still nags in my mind but I don't think we need as big a summer as I maybe did a month or two ago. That can only be good. 

I have the same worries as there were a few reasons as to why the slump happened. All I know is that the team that played at St Mirren on the straight after New Year were not the same team that played at Dens and it seemed to get worse from there the more Tommy tried to fix it. What's the real team that we have?

But broadly I'm in agreement. If we only get in a striker, and nobody else leaves other than Alton it's not a disaster. Given we'll free up wages and we should have more out than in I'd like us to push the boat out a wee bit up front. 

On the Joe situation I'd like him to stay too. I don't think there's bitterness towards the player but Saints are generally a pretty open and straight team and I think the problem was Joe (or more likely his dad) trying to play the media game for leverage. If you do that you have to accept the risks if you don't get it right. I also think it was one of the contributing factors to the slump as it unsettled a defence that up till then was one of the best in the leauge. 

In addition to your plan I'd try to unload Swanson. If we can get some cash to cover costs that would be great but otherwise I'd try to cut our losses. Put the extra wage towards our 15 goals a year boy. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Valentino Bolognese

[RandomGuy.]

Shaughnessys problem was his performances, and the teams, turned to shite around the same time it came out he was playing Saints against Aberdeen and demanding an unholy amount of money.

[Radford]

That is the problem for the scorned lovers, not the player that had a wee blip after being a model of consistency for four seasons. 

Making stuff up like "playing Saints against Aberdeen" might work on the threads of other teams but it won't wash here. He's trying to negotiate his future, as he's entitled to do. 

Let's deal with the facts as they are known here:

• The club asked the player if he wanted to stay and he said he was keen and that he was open to being made an offer. The club did this before he could speak to other clubs, so the player was obviously unaware of what else would be on the table. He wasn't prepared to sign at that point, based on the deals put forward by Saints. 
• Aberdeen moved early in January with an offer, presumably, in excess of what Saints had tabled and the player rejected our deals.
• Once we got the run of games out of the way after the break, and with a firm offer from Aberdeen on the table, the player was able to give Saints a figure of what it would take for him to stay. Saints couldn't meet those demands and ended proceedings. 

What did you want the player to do differently?