Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, ali_91 said:

You’ve been using the same material ever since we’ve been successful. Come on this thread, post a negative remark about Saints and use some droll question to pretend you’re looking for a discussion.

’Serious question, but Saints only signing a player from Colchester has to be a worry.’ 

‘Saints team seems to be getting older and the cup winners are going, are you starting to worry that the end is nigh?.’ 

Bore off. 

'Material'.

Oft.

I'm always looking for a discussion of some sort when I post. As an opposition fan, I'm hardly going to post in the thread, 'You guys look amazing, keep up the good work!'

ETA: Also, I haven't a clue who you signed from Colchester...

Edited April 6, 2019 by Ludo*1

[Kyle]

7 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

Ludo coming on a Saints thread with some ‘not at all trolling,’ negative analysis about Tayside’s premier side. quelle surprise. 

7 games, 7 defeats. Get down. 

Got to do something to cheer himself up Ali. Show some compassion. 

[Tibbermoresaint]

8 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I post on P&B because it's a multi-club forum and I am interested in Scottish football outwith just my own club and like to get other fans' perspectives on things. Therefore, shut the f**k up. I don't do trolling.

Sure you don't. That's why when you start a poll you always finish it.

[Ludo*1]

Just now, Tibbermoresaint said:

Sure you don't. That's why when you start a poll you always finish it.

That's just laziness tbf.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

That's just laziness tbf.

No laziness in this thread, c**t. f**k off.

[RandomGuy.]

27 minutes ago, Kyle said:

The club have withdrawn the contract offer fo Joe Shaughnessy. We’ve made numerous offers but it sounds like Joe and his representatives have been stringing us along, similar to how they’ve treated Aberdeen. The door isn’t completely closed but any further talks will have to be initiated by Joe and his representatives. The club are already looking for his replacement by the sounds of things. 

 

Disappointing stuff. He’s done really well out of saints so he could’ve given us the courtesy of at least telling us himself. 

Not seen the interview, so dont want to jump two feet in (aye), but that's disappointing from a player TW has stuck by with, even more so when hes meant to be the club captain.

If he has been continuing talks with us, with the only intention being to add another number in his "this is how many clubs have offered me a contract" speel when he starts whoring himself down South, any good will I've had towards him will erode.

If he'd simply told the club when they first made contact about a new contract that he wanted to try his luck down South, and moved on with good grace, I'd have fully supported that decision and wished him well.

Suspect he'll still play again, due to Kerrs suspension, but he'll get no quarter from the home support now.

Edited April 6, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[tree house tam]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

No laziness in this thread, c**t. f**k off.

Look, see Widge, I'm not the only one

 

[RandomGuy.]

Seen the interview, and wrote down as best as I could what TW says...

Quote

"We've  been trying since November to work with Joe's representative to resign him, we've offered a number of deals, gone back with deals, good deals, deals we thought would be enough. We have to plan for next year, so we've drawn a line under it aswell. Disappointed but that's football. I have to plan for next season without Joe, our deal has expired we cant wait and wait, theres comes a time and we've been more than patient."

 

[mizfit]

Just me who sees joe being at Sunderland next season?

[Radford]

Quote

Squad for next season:

GK: Clark, Sinclair

RB: Foster
LB: Tanser
CB: Gordon, Kerr / Anderson

DM/CM: Callachan, Craig, Davidson 
AM/WG: Kennedy, O'Halloran, Swanson, Wotherspoon, Wright

CF: Hendry, Kane / McMillan

Out of Contract

Comrie
Easton
Shaughnessy

Alston
McCann
McClean

Watt

Expiring Loans

Bell
Keown
Goss

From what we have at the moment, we require a goalkeeper, a full back on either side, one centre back (two if Anderson goes) and at least one striker, preferably two. We also need a proper ball playing defensive midfielder. So between 6-8 players to add to the 16-18 we already have.

Despite what others think, Cammy Bell would be fine as goalkeeping cover but he won't push Clark and from what he's said would accept and be content with that. Do you settle for that or bring in someone to challenge Clark a bit more, maybe with an eye on him moving on?

Foster needs serious competition and the Easton/Tanser conundrum is testing. I think though that given we will be signing a number of players, you keep Easton if he proves his fitness and the expectation is he can find a good level. With proper right back cover, Foster could always shift to the left in an emergency. 

Retaining Shaughnessy would undoubtedly by my preference at centre back but that seems unlikely now. I'll upset some but we can't go into next season relying on Gordon to be first choice. He may develop into that but we could really do with the manager pulling off a signing like Derek McInnes did with Frazer Wright when Duberry left. A left-sided player would be preferable but Declan Gallagher would have been great business; a good centre back who can play at right back. We missed out there. The fourth choice player isn't so important but we need someone in the squad. 

We are fine in the wide areas/attacking midfield and just need the players to compliment what we have there, both in front of them and most certainly behind them. Kane and Hendry are decent second to fourth choice strikers depending on how many we play with but no more than that. I don't know what to say about Tony Watt. Are we blinded by the name and the reputation? If an unknown striker had performed as he has and with his goal return, would there be any interest in retaining him? He's had good games and spells but hasn't scored goals (two in the league, against Dundee and St Mirren) and the expectation is that he's on a decent wage. I don't see how we can justify that. 

McMillan maybe felt he hadn't had a chance with Saints when he was shipped out to Accies but he appears to have done very little there and back to Ireland would be the best outcome for all parties. Where do you find a goalscorer though, especially when your track record of doing so isn't the best? It's a worry.  

Despite that, the key area is surely the centre of midfield. Craig has stepped up well in an hour of need but we must bring in a proper central player that can hopefully compliment Davidson or Callachan. Alston offers more than the others going forward if we are playing a three or something but it could be a numbers game with him and if he means bringing in a player like Morris or Millar then he has to go. 

I think Goss is pretty shit but if you are of the mind he's a decent passer then the silver lining of him coming in and disrupting our season is that it shows the manager that being technically proficient isn't enough, you need to have more than that.

Big summer ahead and interested to hear what others think we need? 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Radford

[Costanza]

Think you’ve nailed what we need Radford. To just add something though, whilst we appear to have plenty attacking midfielders/wingers there are concerns over all of them for varying reasons, bar probably Kennedy. We would be as well cutting our losses on Swanson going on what I’ve seen in recent weeks, it’s going to take some very good man management to get him firing again. TW is the man to do that but I can’t help feel it has been a signing too many. MOH might fall into same camp. If Wright returns the same player then that’s massive but there’s no guarantee of that and Spoony is well Spoony.

If we fill all the other gaps then this is less of a concern but hard not to be worried as to how the squad looks at the moment.

[The Saintee]

Very disappointed in Shaughnessy. If he fancies a wee shot down South then he better start hitting the gym.

[tree house tam]

Unveil Maksim Maksimov now please.

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Unveil Maksim Maksimov now please.

Currently without a club...

[RandomGuy.]

Aye not much to argue with in what Radfords said.

In my head, the minimum we can get away with is a back up GK, CB who can post RB, a CM and  striker. That's just a minimum to balance the squad. I'd assume the budget will be cut, which means a balancing act will be needed, and positions heavily prioritised. 

Spoiler

Gk - Bell would do as cheap cover as said, it's always worth having two first team quality keepers, but it's not a priority this Summer for me so get Bell cheap and forget about the position.

Fb - Easton would get a 1 year deal on reduced wages, if he remains free of his injury by the end of the season. That means you could forget about left back, Foster is still fine at right back. Ideally you'd sign a replacement and let them settle in before usurping him next season, but again that might be a waste of budget. Getting someone who can cover there when needed but can play elsewhere would be ideal.

CB - Kerr, Gordon and Anderson give a base, but Gordon has about 8 appearances and we've no idea how he'd cope regularly, and Anderson is getting mixed reviews in the Championship. Ideally you get a first choice CB who can play RB, Gallagher would've been perfect. Someone like Marcus Fraser fits the bill aswell, but might be hard to get if County are promoted.

WM - Strongest position, hard to know what to do as it would depend on what formation he wants to play. As it is, five on first team wages is probably overkill if the budgets getting cut. Swanson the obvious casualty, but if he wants to play with 3 behind a lone striker, then hes worth keeping as he could play there alongside Kennedy and Wotherspoon. Alston could also play that AM role, and out wide, but I think he'll be gone. A useful squad player but I think he'll want more.

Cm - The big one. Craig, Davidson and Callachan all have useful strengths, but also weaknesses that are exploited by the others. Goss will be gone. Need someone who can collect the ball in midfield and link with strikers. Polworth sort of does what we need but has no positional sense, so would probably need to be in a three with two more defensive options, not heard anything about that deal for ages anyway. A Mulumbu type is the dream, but I cant think of anyone who's realistic we could get to do that.

St - Kane isnt good enough to be relied on. Hendry is probably ideal as an impact sub at this stage of his career. Watt would be perfect if he could actually score. Clueless what happens with him, probably depends on his wages and if he wants to move on. Fucked if I know of who can be signed, someone like Gavin Reilly sounds about right but no idea how good he actually is. Zak Rudden getting rave reviews from Falkirk fans, and probably available on loan, but that means nothing. Either way we need more goals. I forgot McMillan existed while writing this shite up, says it all probably.

So in terms of outs, youd potentially have Shaughnessy, Comrie, Goss, Alston, Watt and McMillan.

In we'd have Bell, Fraser, Polworth and Reilly. That would surely cut the budget and allow some more wiggle room if a perfect players pops up later the window.

I've put my thoughts in a spoiler, since it's a ramble and not something many will want to be forced to read.

Edited April 7, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[PauloPerth]

Not sure about this not relying on Liam Gordon at centre back going into next season chat cos of his lack of appearances. Then how is he ever to get the appearances?  He's the same age as Kerr at 23, who's been a regular starter for about a year now on the back of not many first team starts up til then. Gordon should start every game after the split, alongside Kerr after his suspension and lets see if they are a good enough pairing. 

Although I think the truth might be that Tommy doesn't rate Liam for whatever reason. On the back of what Tommy said in his interview about the Shaughnessy contract situation, and presumably that didn't just come to light during yesterday's game, then why the f**k was he starting in a nothing game for us?

Games with nothing at stake in this league are a rarity, and we have the luxury of 7 at the end of this season to be able to make big decisions on players for next season, and we've used up two of them already. If we get to the end of the season, and haven't seen a good few starts for Gordon, Easton, Swanson etc then I'm really asking questions about our managers thinking. Unless those decisions have already been made, obviously.

I know people keep mentioning the £100k difference prize money between 7th and 9th  being so important as with all our signings this season we will likely make a big loss, but I'm not convinced by that. We had two cup ties live on tv against Celtic, and also got a split of a 28000 crowd from the Scottish cup tie. That's a big increase on last season's income.

Yes £100k is a lot of money to us, but firstly, it's not as if the regular starters are guaranteeing us wins anyway, just look at the past 4 months for confirmation of that, so bringing in 2 or 3 fringe players over the next 5 games might not be that detrimental to our results. And, secondly, you have to budget in how much of a loss you make by investing in a new player you didn't need, or one who turns out to be a dud, or you keep Swanson on when he's not going to produce and waste a season's wage, or get rid and he plays brilliantly elsewhere. 

Give them a chance ffs, let's start preparing for next season now.

[7-2]

I can't help think that both Aberdeen and Saints basically giving up on Joe within 24 hours of each other suggests 'I dumped him first' moves as they know he's definitely off somewhere else.

[Widge]

I think Wright does rate Gordon, he’s thrown him in to some pretty big games. He also gave him a new two year deal very early on, you don’t no that unless you rate someone.

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Not sure about this not relying on Liam Gordon at centre back going into next season chat cos of his lack of appearances. Then how is he ever to get the appearances?  He's the same age as Kerr at 23, who's been a regular starter for about a year now on the back of not many first team starts up til then

Kerr had proven himself in the Championship, he had 96 senior appearances at QOS and East Fife before coming back.

Gordon has 42 senior appearances in his entire career, 13 at Saints, the rest below Championship level.

Rightly or wrongly people will have doubts about relying on him over the full season.

2 minutes ago, 7-2 said:

I can't help think that both Aberdeen and Saints basically giving up on Joe within 24 hours of each other suggests 'I dumped him first' moves as they know he's definitely off somewhere else.

Probably. Wright mentions talking to McInnes about Shaughnessy in his interview.

[Radford]

I'm still giving all the more attacking midfielders the benefit of the doubt. Fair enough if you need to cut one for budget reasons but I wouldn't be going like-for-like yet. We have seen what Swanson and O'Halloran have brought to the club in the past. Yesterday was the first time the latter has started three games in a row since November 2016. It's going to take him time to get going. Swanson is in a rut but next season should be starting fresh for him.

We were fortunate last season that Kerr came in mid-season and did well, so we knew we could rely on him. A run of five games would help with Gordon but I'd still be prioritising a centre back.

That's surely not where @RandomGuy. envisages signing Marcus Fraser for? I'm looking for the next Frazer Wright, some experience, presence, leadership and character.

I'd forgotten about the Polworth link. He isn't what we need in a midfield two and would be more advanced in a three. A player like that would add to the squad but it isn't what we are crying out for.

On the finances, how much of each league placing goes into the bonus pot? We talk about however much per place but I suspect a chunk of that goes to the players. It would be them that lose out as much as the club. Of course, that means in terms of dressing room dynamics you can't just throw a bunch of fringe players in and cost everyone money. Not saying that's right or wrong, by the way.

I'd need to think about the budget a bit more but I don't think the manager is going be severely handicapped this summer.