Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[mizfit]

Nah nah nah. Not having that.

I didn’t go to watch the football. I went after a St. Johnstone home European game and was told to cover my top up. In a Perth pub on a Thursday evening. Ridiculous.

The second incident I wasn’t watching the football and didn’t plan to. However I noticed the Europa League final was on and it was going to penalties. I knew the game was on ITV 4 or something so I asked the bar staff to stick it on and they declined to do so because they are a music pub. That’s even though there was no bands on and the tv was set to More 4 or some shite like that. Instead of putting the game on they decided to come across as if they are better than that and be total snobs. I’ve more or less boycotted ever since, however I might go back in if what Tam says is the new situation in there.

We went in the summer when pubs reopened. The manager told us he was too busy and couldn’t give us a table. Looked into the beer garden and pointed out he had 4 empty tables and asked if they’d been booked, told us no so I asked if we could get in. He told us no and walked away.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

Good post Widge, apart from homophobe at the end 

[Widge]

9 minutes ago, glenrothes 1884 saint said:

Good post Widge, apart from homophobe at the end 

Autocorrect done me dirty there! Should say “telt”

[Radford]

Whether intentionally or not, Steve Brown let slip in a piece he did around February last year that KR's number one remit was to reduce the wage bill. So basically you had a HoFO whose job wasn't judged on footballing success but on meeting financial parameters.

Scott Boyd will no doubt need to work under the same premise. Saints don't buckle to wage demands. If they think a winger that doesn't score or create goals is only worth a certain wage, that's the offer he gets. But it is still about getting enough deals done and I'm not sure we ever really saw KR tested on that front, certainly when it came to signing new players. 

Going back to even before the HoFO role was created, Saints struggled to get deals done (e.g. Gallagher, Polworth) and none of the new signings since have really tested that. Equally, the renewals done so far have been probably the easiesf ones and even then, they only got Gordon on another year. 

You can tell IMO that the manager is starting to get a bit twitchy about the time the next 4 or 5 they are talking to are taking. Scott Boyd needs to hit the ground running here and deliver for the manager. But also he'll need to deliver for his boss, the chairman. Good luck on that. 

Also, if the chairman is trying to put a new structure in place, I wonder if we might see a direct recruitment role created, as the previous manager wanted... 

[Widge]

So I think it's fairly clear we're going to finish 6th this season and that since the return from the international break, we've looked totally off the boil against a Championship, Dundee and a poor, non-scoring Aberdeen. If we're to do anything in the Scottish Cup we're going to need to improve our form, attitude and application in matches. 

So I'll talk about the good. We're safe from relegation easily, finished top 6 and won the League Cup. All things we'd have bitten the hand off at the start of the season. A very good and respectful campaign for a rookie management team with a very, very thin squad to choose from. The players look organised, fitter than ever before and are definitely a cohesive unit and team. The manager is obviously a very good coach who can get his ideas across well and implement what he wants in a game too. We also have a lot of our key players tied up for next season and the core of our squad is settled. 

Now the bad and it's weird to think that this list will probably be a lot longer than the goods as strange as that may seem. We lack a lot of ability and depth in the forward areas. Whilst we don't appear to have any issued scoring goals looking at the table, we're so uncreative at home its unreal. I think we can all safely say it's a combination of the system, players and tactics. Melamed and may combine for our only goal against Dundee, yet neither play in the next game and we resort to 1 up front, that's on the manager. What's not on the manager is the non-composed and generally never looking like scoring Chris Kane. If his agent wants a wage rise, he can go as far as I'm concerned. Worryingly Ali McCann's last 2 games have seen him perform as poorly as he has for us, now he's played a lot of matches without a rest over the last 2 season, but even still he was incredibly wasteful. Davidson needs to either come up with a solution to his formation issue, or we need new players who're better than what we've got. The likes of Kane, Clark, Tanser, May, O'Halloran are all good players on their day, but these days are now few and far between.  A number of them should look at Shaun Rooney's attitude and application, for a guy who was brought in by a previous manager with the new manager signing a player ahead of him, his work rate and application is tremendous and fair play to him for forcing his way fully into first choice.

This summer is a a big one. We're still looking for a Liam Craig replacement, at least 2 wingers, at least 2 strikers and ideally another goalkeeper, defender and fullback. We don't need a lot of players, yet at the same time on the face of it we actually do. Who knows if any of the young guys are going to make it as the next big thing. The big hopes for Robertson appear unfounded to say the lease.

[RandomGuy.]

I think I'm in the minority who thinks we could get an upgrade on Rooney, tbh...

[Widge]

14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think I'm in the minority who thinks we could get an upgrade on Rooney, tbh...

I don't disagree with this and frankly I don't think there's any positions on the pitch where we couldn't strive for an upgrade, bar maybe centreback. However, I was talking about his attitude which is first class. I think what will happen is teams are going to pay specific attention to Rooney which should free up our other players more, especially since he's a defender. 

If you could combine McNamara and Rooney you'd essentially have prime Dave Mackay who was our best right back for decades!

[mizfit]

Definitely looking at a new goalkeeper, LB and new striker options next season.

We need to get back into not conceding an early goal. Too many times we’ve conceded in the first 30 then lost.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Widge said:

I don't disagree with this and frankly I don't think there's any positions on the pitch where we couldn't strive for an upgrade, bar maybe centreback. However, I was talking about his attitude which is first class. I think what will happen is teams are going to pay specific attention to Rooney which should free up our other players more, especially since he's a defender. 

If you could combine McNamara and Rooney you'd essentially have prime Dave Mackay who was our best right back for decades!

Yeah can't question his attitude, but I don't think he does enough on the ball/defensively yet to really be undisputed first choice. His pace/strength is great to recover situations, but he needs to learn he can't rely on it every time.

Neither him or McNamara could set up a chance to save their life. McNamara got a pass because he played a lot of passes, and Rooney gets a pass because his giant melon head is so dangerous in the box.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yeah can't question his attitude, but I don't think he does enough on the ball/defensively yet to really be undisputed first choice. His pace/strength is great to recover situations, but he needs to learn he can't rely on it every time.

Neither him or McNamara could set up a chance to save their life. McNamara got a pass because he played a lot of passes, and Rooney gets a pass because his giant melon head is so dangerous in the box.

Rooney crossed for Conway to score in final,also crossed forMay on Saturday,if he’d not been on his heels he’d have scored,I’m sure he’ll have a couple more tbh,so he can set up chances

[THE FAT MAN]

Cup game now 5.30 pm.Saturday

[The Marly]

So I think it's fairly clear we're going to finish 6th this season and that since the return from the international break, we've looked totally off the boil against a Championship, Dundee and a poor, non-scoring Aberdeen. If we're to do anything in the Scottish Cup we're going to need to improve our form, attitude and application in matches. 
So I'll talk about the good. We're safe from relegation easily, finished top 6 and won the League Cup. All things we'd have bitten the hand off at the start of the season. A very good and respectful campaign for a rookie management team with a very, very thin squad to choose from. The players look organised, fitter than ever before and are definitely a cohesive unit and team. The manager is obviously a very good coach who can get his ideas across well and implement what he wants in a game too. We also have a lot of our key players tied up for next season and the core of our squad is settled. 
Now the bad and it's weird to think that this list will probably be a lot longer than the goods as strange as that may seem. We lack a lot of ability and depth in the forward areas. Whilst we don't appear to have any issued scoring goals looking at the table, we're so uncreative at home its unreal. I think we can all safely say it's a combination of the system, players and tactics. Melamed and may combine for our only goal against Dundee, yet neither play in the next game and we resort to 1 up front, that's on the manager. What's not on the manager is the non-composed and generally never looking like scoring Chris Kane. If his agent wants a wage rise, he can go as far as I'm concerned. Worryingly Ali McCann's last 2 games have seen him perform as poorly as he has for us, now he's played a lot of matches without a rest over the last 2 season, but even still he was incredibly wasteful. Davidson needs to either come up with a solution to his formation issue, or we need new players who're better than what we've got. The likes of Kane, Clark, Tanser, May, O'Halloran are all good players on their day, but these days are now few and far between.  A number of them should look at Shaun Rooney's attitude and application, for a guy who was brought in by a previous manager with the new manager signing a player ahead of him, his work rate and application is tremendous and fair play to him for forcing his way fully into first choice.
This summer is a a big one. We're still looking for a Liam Craig replacement, at least 2 wingers, at least 2 strikers and ideally another goalkeeper, defender and fullback. We don't need a lot of players, yet at the same time on the face of it we actually do. Who knows if any of the young guys are going to make it as the next big thing. The big hopes for Robertson appear unfounded to say the lease.

Our first defeat by a non-arse cheeks team in God knows how long and you've written off half the team?
A bad day at the office on Saturday, that all and even then we had the better of the first half.
Ali is a young player. He's had a wee dip in form, but he deserves much more support than this.
I do agree we need a new striker or two though, but they won't be easy to get.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, glenrothes 1884 saint said:

Rooney crossed for Conway to score in final,also crossed forMay on Saturday,if he’d not been on his heels he’d have scored,I’m sure he’ll have a couple more tbh,so he can set up chances

I just worry his goal record has blinded people to his flaws.

Same with Melamed, who despite clearly been quality on the ball and a good finisher, probably benefits from not having a run as a lone striker, while May/Hendry both did. None of the three are suited to it, but Melamed has been spared the confidence sapping exercise of chasing hopeless balls.

[Radford]

I'm all for striving for the best but the idea that St Johnstone can or should be looking to improve on players like Rooney and Melamed when you assess the squad as a whole is a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. 

[RandomGuy.]

46 minutes ago, Radford said:

I'm all for striving for the best but the idea that St Johnstone can or should be looking to improve on players like Rooney and Melamed when you assess the squad as a whole is a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. 

I didn't say we should be looking to replace Rooney, just that we could probably upgrade if we wanted.

Rooney, the back 3, Craig, McCann, Wotherpoon, Melamed are all players I'd be delighted to have starting next season.

If Clark, Booth, Bryson, Muzz, Conway, Kane and May all stuck around as squad players (ignore wages) I'd be happy too, tbh. 

I'm just unconvinced about Rooney defensively or on the ball, and feel like Melameds poor performances get ignored a bit/worry he's a flash in the pan type, who can't sustain the goals he's been scoring. It's just an opinion which could be wrong.

[Jamie_B]

Dangerously close to going down the “all he does is score goals” route here with Melamed. 

And as far as Rooney goes, on Saturday he created two of our very few chances (excellent left footed through ball early on that was just cut out before Conway could finish, low cross for May that was cut our by Hoban). He’s fine as far as that goes - but when you add in his physical attributes then you’d be going some to upgrade on him right now. Playing at wing back with Kerr inside him takes a lot of defensive work off him and his attacking work often helps pin his opponent all the way back in any event.

[Widge]

15 hours ago, The Marly said:

Our first defeat by a non-arse cheeks team in God knows how long and you've written off half the team?
A bad day at the office on Saturday, that all and even then we had the better of the first half.
Ali is a young player. He's had a wee dip in form, but he deserves much more support than this.
I do agree we need a new striker or two though, but they won't be easy to get.

Far from it, I've not written anyone off who isn't away or not been god enough for some time. Nothing I've mentioned in my post is something new that hasn't been discussed to death on here. It's well established we need a new goalkeeper and at least 1 striker capable of scoring as a first choice. It's the same old story at home though, we've scored 1 open play goal at home all season, that's approaching unforgivable territory and if fans had been in the stadium god knows how that would have been received. 

What I've posted isn't some reactionary nonsense, it's founded on the results and performances this season. We can't just look at the recent form and the cup win in isolation, a campaign is judged on its entirety and for me there's plenty to work on and improve on. I've had the same argument on WAP, why should we accept "ok" as a standard just because we know the players. We should always be striving (within our means) to get better and have better players who'll move on for cash, or propel us up a place or two.

As for not supporting McCann, my comments were based on his recent performances which haven't been up to the incredibly high standard he's set himself. At no point do I slag him off or say he should be getting dropped. It was a comment about his recent games and a question of whether he needs a break since he's played football non-stop for the last 2 seasons. 

So please before you jump in with both feet trying to insinuate something which clearly isn't there, at least read the post and make comments appropriate to it. 

[tree house tam]

From what I've been told, out of the young players on loan/breaking through only a couple will survive to make it into the first team, one defender, one midfielder. The hope is there for others but it's not materialising at the moment. That's not to say it won't happen,  just looks that way atm.

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

Dangerously close to going down the “all he does is score goals” route here with Melamed.

Not at all, he's clearly our best striker and I'd be surprised if he doesn't move on to bigger things this Summer. 

There's just a nagging voice in the back of my mind that if he played 3/4 games as a lone striker, we'd see a different side to him, and the gap between him and someone like May might be smaller than it looks, if that makes sense?

[tree house tam]

I don't think Melamed fits into our side that well tbh. That's not a slight on him by the way because the boy can score and generally has a decent touch. It may be a slight on Saints though as I don't think we have the players to compliment him and vice versa if that makes sense. Would I keep him? If the price was right, aye. I think our forwards need refreshed though and wouldn't be averse to binning them all if they think they are worth more money.