Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Bose]

Middleton wouldn’t have been my choice but I only need to think about my doubts about the team selection yesterday so I’ll wait and see how he does 

[This Charming Man]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

He's virtually only got something like the Dundee job to go for now, which presumably won't be open until the Summer.

Here's hoping common sense finally prevails at Dens sometime soon.

Tommy Wright ably assisted by Sir Charles of Adam imho.

Anyway Random, enjoy your forthcoming cup final my man.

Regards 

 

[Sh*teAndMuck]

Just watching MOTD and see the boy Naismith playing for Luton. Ah well...

No idea really about Middleton. Only thing I remember is shouting and swearing at him when he was with Hibs at Easter Road for being a diving wee shite. Oh well, we’ll see...

[Radford]

Middleton is another short-term move that brings no tangible benefit. 

McNamara is already away and Brown will follow and can Bryson and Conway play on for another year (if we even want them to). Has to be questionable whether Melamed will be here next year as well. This is another loan signing so by the time the manager has been in the job for a year, there could be no improvement to the squad he inherited. 

The chairman was quite open that top of the remit for the HoFO was to reduce the wage bill but there has to be some sort of coherent plan to keep the squad moving in the right direction. Pandemic or not, doing nothing that meets that criteria for a year isn't doing that.

[Ludo*1]

8 minutes ago, double deluxe said:

Scott Burns of the Daily Record also crediting Saints with an interest in Connor Shields of Queen of the South.

That's the kind of signing you want to be making. Hoping we'd be in for him. Looks a talent. One of those that will either be completely unable to handle the step up or be a cracking player for you with little room for 'just decent'. He looks a player.

As far as Middleton is concerned - really liked him initially but just seems very meh and a bit anonymous everywhere he goes. 

[Radford]

6 minutes ago, double deluxe said:

Scott Burns of the Daily Record also crediting Saints with an interest in Connor Shields of Queen of the South.

That's a more interesting one, if a bit of a gamble. Obviously got his move to Sunderland (think his final game for Albion Rovers was against Saints) and this is his fourth or fifth season as a first team regular at various levels. 

Do feel we need to add some proven quality in the coming months though, given the size of the squad and with inevitable departures. 

[Radford]

9 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

21 minutes ago, Radford said:

Precious resources available this month and this is the way they spend it? Scunnered. So, so disappointing. 

Believe it's to allow someone to go out and get some much needed game time.

Find it even crazier that we'll let a player (say Hendry) that we know can offer something (even if their current form isn't the best) go and instead rely on a guy who has barely made it into double figures for league starts in his whole career. 

[Bose]

5 minutes ago, Radford said:

Find it even crazier that we'll let a player (say Hendry) that we know can offer something (even if their current form isn't the best) go and instead rely on a guy who has barely made it into double figures for league starts in his whole career. 

I thought Alex Ferguson? 

[Lang Toon Saintee]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

Yet another team going to try and figure out exactly what Glenn Middleton is.

when you're so desperate to use the H word that you stick a space in it to get around the filter.

I heard that it was a player swap deal with Michael O'Hallaron..

 

[RandomGuy.]

We badly need pace in the team, especially since MOH has been such a liability this season, so this makes sense on that.

2 footed winger, who can play on both flanks, up front, and has been, according to Gerrard, been trained as a full back/wing back, is his description, and it maybe makes a bit more sense.

We have small squad, only one player with genuine pace, and presumably money is being held to renew contracts. Middleton probably fits the bill as a cheap, quick, loanee who can play multiple positions.

I've spent the last month or so saying we need wide players who can win 1v1 battles, go down the wing or cut inside, and who have pace, so it would be stupid of me to criticise a signing that offers all that. Questions over his ability to produce that consistently/ his mindset when loaned away from Rangers, but I do trust Davidson as a coach tbh.

Not as down on this signing as others, short term, but agree the club don't appear to doing anything long term in terms of new players.

[The Marly]

When I was looking up the number of appearances for that list, was very surprised that Millar wasn't in the top 50 in the new book. Not sure Buck McGarry is there either, although can't be sure on that. I know there are factors other than longevity but harsh omission(s) IMO. Brian Doyle and Alastair Blair will have forgotten more about Saints than I've ever known though. 
Agree fully about Millar in 2014/15, an absolutely outstanding season. Maybe the best from any player over the decade? 

Millar would definitely get in my all-time Saints XI.

Oh and it's McCarry [emoji3]

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

I wonder if Davidson has been told no more permanent signings while we're at the risk of going down? 

Certainly get the impression that Kirsten's approach is a very risk adverse one. 

[RandomGuy.]

30 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

I wonder if Davidson has been told no more permanent signings while we're at the risk of going down? 

Certainly get the impression that Kirsten's approach is a very risk adverse one. 

Would imagine it depends on the level of player? Which is fair enough tbh.

We've a few high earners who aren't contributing. TW was allowed to pile up high earners who weren't earning their wage tbh, so maybe an attempt to go away from that.

Arguable we could see MOH and May leave without new deals tbh, and have a large chunk of money available, without necessarily being weaker. 

[Kyle]

I think that's a little harsh on May, he has contributed well enough pre-christmas this season even if he's looking like the 3rd choice striker at the moment.

Entirely accurate in respect of Michael O'Halloran though. His third spell has been a bit of a bust to be honest, he seems to have lost the spark that he had unfortunately.

I get the logic in signing Middleton - RandomGuy set it out above - but it's not one that excites me particularly. He did well for Rangers a couple of years ago but his loan spells at Hibs and Bradford seem to have been a bit of a disaster. I can't see why he'd be any more motivated at an even smaller club, unless Rangers have told him he's in the last chance saloon.

I think we need one more still - another natural centre back would be lovely but that doesn't seem to be a priority. A midfielder with energy so that we don't have to rely on giving Bryson any more minutes would do.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Kyle

[Kyle]

Here he is. 

[tree house tam]

When Middleton was mentioned I was like "f**k that, he's shite, overrated shite". Willing to give the boy a chance before i completely lose my rag at him beating guys 3 times to cross and hit the first man.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

I think that's a little harsh on May, he has contributed well enough pre-christmas this season even if he's looking like the 3rd choice striker at the moment.

If you ignore penalties, he's scored in 4 league games in 12 months*. Only scored in 2 of 21 appearances this season.

If he wasn't Stevie May then we'd all see one of, if not the, highest earners contributing little in terms of actual output and be happy to see him moved on.

It's harsh, perhaps overly so, but if we're going with a lower budget we can't have high earners who aren't performing. May is one of those. His last few performances have been embarrassing. 

* of course Covid decimated those 12 months, so rule out the ~5/6 months in the middle.

Edited January 25, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[tree house tam]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

If you ignore penalties, he's scored in 4 league games in 12 months*. Only scored in 2 of 21 appearances this season.

If he wasn't Stevie May then we'd all see one of, if not the, highest earners contributing little in terms of actual output and be happy to see him moved on.

It's harsh, perhaps overly so, but if we're going with a lower budget we can't have high earners who aren't performing. May is one of those. His last few performances have been embarrassing. 

* of course Covid decimated those 12 months, so rule out the ~5/6 months in the middle.

After our run of missing penalties I would get the stats about "ignoring penalties" as far to f**k in the sea as you can.

Is he worth what we are paying him? Debatable.

Is he a fairly decent player at our level? Yes.

[Zamora Fan]

If you ignore penalties, he's scored in 4 league games in 12 months*. Only scored in 2 of 21 appearances this season.
If he wasn't Stevie May then we'd all see one of, if not the, highest earners contributing little in terms of actual output and be happy to see him moved on.
It's harsh, perhaps overly so, but if we're going with a lower budget we can't have high earners who aren't performing. May is one of those. His last few performances have been embarrassing. 
* of course Covid decimated those 12 months, so rule out the ~5/6 months in the middle.

“Ignore penalties”?? He’s won half of them himself.

Anyway, on Middleton I’d say I’m about 60% onboard. In terms of his profile and even position he seems like the kind of player we’d have taken under Wright that would do well for us - underperforming, talented lad who’s failed higher up the food chain. The fact he was pish at Hibs does very little for me, think of the number of players over the last decade who were great for us but then failed there or Hearts/Aberdeen after the crowd got on their back in the first game? Main concern is it’s another short term transfer and it doesn’t seem like a loan that could be made permanent. I guess for there to be any chance of that we’d need him to hit the sweet spot of being good but not so good there’s interest from elsewhere..

I think the player himself is a good fit for Calum’s system and I like to see him recruiting players based on that rather than just whoever’s available. I’ve spoken before about the need in a 5-2-3 for the wingers to be players that can go both ways, cutting inside or hitting byline for a cross. Currently we have; on the right Conway and O’Halloran who can only go for the byline, meaning they end up occupying the same position as Rooney/McN every time, plus Wotherspoon who can go both ways but is better on the left. On the left, I was impressed by Conway there against Hibs and against County in Dingwall and he’s a good option there - meaning that if we bring in Middleton we have a player who can hopefully cut inside from the right on to his left foot with some success but also use his pace to go down the line.


LW
Wotherspoon
Conway
Middleton
MOH

RW
Middleton
Wotherspoon
MOH/Conway

TLDR: I think he’s a good player to bring in who fits the way Calum wants to play, I just wish it was longer term.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

After our run of missing penalties I would get the stats about "ignoring penalties" as far to f**k in the sea as you can.

 

37 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

“Ignore penalties”?? He’s won half of them himself.

Was meaning more that you can't rely on us getting penalties (only got 3 in the league last season), so we need open play goals from our strikers. May hasn't been giving us that since he re-joined.

I like May and think he's still our best striker, but there's no way he deserves to be one of our highest earners based on the last 1.5 seasons, so his wage needs to reflect that.