Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Kyle]

The problems that we need to try and fix are;

• the goalkeeper. Thankfully he didn't cost us today but his save % is embarrassingly low.
• We give up far too many good chances 
• We can't defend set pieces
• The midfield leaves far too much space in behind them and in front of the defence and is too slow generally to make up the ground when its caught out
• The wide players we have in the squad - Spoony aside - don't offer much beyond flashes of what once was.
• We don't create enough chances and when we do create one, the striker generally fluffs his lines.
• A clear lack of discipline and leaders in the squad.
• The shape restricts our better players from last season. I know we shift from a front 2 and a number 10 to 2 number 10s and a striker, but the rest of the team is generally pretty rigid, certainly before today. At least we saw a more traditional 3-5-2 with a sitting midfielder against Aberdeen.

I don't think the manager has any intention of even trying to change the shape and I doubt he will be afforded the budget to sign players who can competently play in it in January, so he needs to try and figure it out with what he has available to him. Given his record in the summer window, it's maybe for the best that he wont be given money for 4 or 5 others. Lets be honest, of the signings we made in the summer, only McNamara and Rooney look up to playing at this level and one of them was signed by the previous manager.

I honestly don't know where we go from here. We've got a manager who (rightly) wont be sacked but who wont try and change things out of his preferred shape, a chairman who (again rightly) probably wont bail him out with expensive, fit for purposes signings and a small squad with an unfortunately high number of players who are either not up to it at this level or who are now past their best. 

I'd like to see us try and shitfest our way to the summer and then make the necessary changes in the squad. It's maybe to Davidson's credit that he probably wont do that, but I'd much rather see him being more pragmatic.

Parish, Gordon, Tanser, Booth, Wotherspoon, Davidson, Bryson, Craig, Conway, Kane, May, Melamed, and O'Halloran are all out of contract. I'd dump the players signed by the manager, Parish (signed because he lives locally ) and O'Halloran at an absolute minimum. The players who have just extended their deals are probably next most at risk and Tanser and May are probably the ones who could move up the way.

 

 

 

 

[RandomGuy.]

Kyle trying to a sad moniker IMO. Something ironic like Smyle or something.

Think the manager is finding his feet. Its shite, and its a slow progress, but look at the likes of Goodwin etc., who have taken a few seasons to work out how to play this division then build a squad for it.

Today will have shown him the benefit of a DM, and how it frees up the rest, and also how effective being a counter attacking side is at this level. We've been fine away from home so that'll just solidify things.

Next game is huge, not just because its Hamilton who are directly below us, but because its a home game we need to win. I don't think we need a DM for this game, nor do I think the 5-2-3 is remotely the right set up to try and break teams down, so I'd like to see a 4-4-2 (presumably MOH is suspended?).

Clark (I guess)

Rooney - Gordon - McCart - Booth

Conway - McCann - Davidson - Wotherspoon

Kane - May

Harsh as f**k on McNamara/Craig, but horses for courses, and with old man Conway on one wing, and Booth/Wotherspoon on the other, you'd need Rooney to provide some form of threat in terms of beating full backs. Gordon/McCart don't deserve dropped, and Kerr can reflect further on being a fanny against St Mirren. If MOH is fit, put him right with McNamara behind him. If Tanser is fit, swap him for Booth.

I doubt we'll see that though, so have to hope the manager can figure something else out. New managers seem to stick with things that work until they don't, so we'll maybe just play the same 11 (minus Tanser if hes injured) as we started with today.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

I thought or midfield was much better overall today. Were able to collect a lot of lose balls etc. 

If Liam is going to play regularly he needs to stop just booting the ball away when he wins it particularly in the middle third of the pitch.

McCann & Rooney were the individual standouts. Would like to see Rooney get a couple of games at wing back (I'd rather we changed the shape but I know we won't) once McNamara goes. He's capable of the MOH syle runs and firing it across but will also provide more than MOH defensively. 

I just can't see past the fact we at times undo all the good work with our consistently poor defending. 

For all our good football we created very little in terms of quality chances like a few have said. 

Definitely evidence today that the front 2 and extra man in the middle of the park gives makes us more solid out of possession as well as having the extra man in the middle to pick up lose balls. Maybe McCann being much more mobile than Bryson or Muzz helped as well?

Melamed, he's just shite isn't he?

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Kyle trying to a sad moniker IMO. Something ironic like Smyle or something.

Think the manager is finding his feet. Its shite, and its a slow progress, but look at the likes of Goodwin etc., who have taken a few seasons to work out how to play this division then build a squad for it.

Today will have shown him the benefit of a DM, and how it frees up the rest, and also how effective being a counter attacking side is at this level. We've been fine away from home so that'll just solidify things.

Next game is huge, not just because its Hamilton who are directly below us, but because its a home game we need to win. I don't think we need a DM for this game, nor do I think the 5-2-3 is remotely the right set up to try and break teams down, so I'd like to see a 4-4-2 (presumably MOH is suspended?).

Clark (I guess)

Rooney - Gordon - McCart - Booth

Conway - McCann - Davidson - Wotherspoon

Kane - May

Harsh as f**k on McNamara/Craig, but horses for courses, and with old man Conway on one wing, and Booth/Wotherspoon on the other, you'd need Rooney to provide some form of threat in terms of beating full backs. Gordon/McCart don't deserve dropped, and Kerr can reflect further on being a fanny against St Mirren. If MOH is fit, put him right with McNamara behind him. If Tanser is fit, swap him for Booth.

I doubt we'll see that though, so have to hope the manager can figure something else out. New managers seem to stick with things that work until they don't, so we'll maybe just play the same 11 (minus Tanser if hes injured) as we started with today.

MoH instead of Conway, presume he's got a game to go of his ban though. Simple, rigid but also gives options on either wing, overlaps for full backs as well. 

[RandomGuy.]

FWIW I still want us to be bold and try and sign McCowan from Ayr.

Stick him on a flank and we'd instantly be more dangerous and force teams back a step. Would cost a fee but would make that up in time.

If I had a wishlist for this window it would be...

1. McCowan/ pacey winger who can play either flank
2. Competent goalkeeper/ Luke Southwood is doing f**k all for Reading, try for him on loan
3. DM cover for Craig/ sacrifice the wage of a ST if needed.
4. ST who can both be physical and pass a ball/ or steal DNA from May and Kane and create a hybrid creature.

[nelsjfc]

Still think we'll be more than fine this season. Prefer the 3 man midfield more and agree with others that Craig let Wotherspoon and McCann play with a bit more freedom. Rooney's done well and he's the sort you really root for, seems to have a good attitude.

Next two games are undoubtedly massive and you'd expect they'll be real pressure from some section's of the fan base if we lose on Wednesday.

In response to the above posts, I'm not confident that we can address everything this window. Unless Melamed or Hendry move out on loan or permanently I think there's approximately zero chance of another striker coming in. No idea what's going on with Melamed tbh. Not seen enough to judge if its simply him not being good enough it something else such as an injury or him struggling to settle here.

A more effective winger and a keeper would be my priorities with a more commanding centre half next. In terms of moving players on, I don't think Conway or Bryson have done enough as senior players in the squad.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

MoH instead of Conway, presume he's got a game to go of his ban though. Simple, rigid but also gives options on either wing, overlaps for full backs as well. 

Checked the rules...

 

So aye, think hes back for this. In that case, MOH on the right wing and McNamara in behind him pls.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

4 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

MoH instead of Conway, presume he's got a game to go of his ban though. Simple, rigid but also gives options on either wing, overlaps for full backs as well. 

2 yellows is only one game ban

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Checked the rules...

 

So aye, think hes back for this. In that case, MOH on the right wing and McNamara in behind him pls.

Wondered if it was a 2 game ban as it was his second sending off. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Just now, glenrothes 1884 saint said:

2 yellows is only one game ban

Second sending off of the season though.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

1 minute ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Second sending off of the season though.

That punishment has been spent,he’ll be due a suspension when he gets to the points limit though 

[Kyle]

22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Kyle trying to a sad moniker IMO. Something ironic like Smyle or something.

Think the manager is finding his feet. Its shite, and its a slow progress, but look at the likes of Goodwin etc., who have taken a few seasons to work out how to play this division then build a squad for it.

 

Goodwin has been at St Mirren for under 18 months. He joined later in the summer than Davidson in his first season and wasn't given a squad which had just finished in the top 6. He was still scrambling for players well into August, I'm sure they had about 12 senior players during their Betfred Cup campaign in his first season and have been the club most affected by covid this season too. He has still managed to get a better tune out of a squad that I wouldn't swap for ours.

What worries me most is Davidson seems to be out thought by opposition managers. They set up to nullify what little threat we have and know they don't really need to create much to score. They'll likely deliver one decent ball from a set piece or failing that can rely on Zander Clark dropping a clanger to beat us. Even if we do score first or get ourselves ahead, we're pretty easy to peg back.

I don't mind being this season's Sadford replacement. I don't think I'm saying anything that isn't fair. I know it's Davidson's first job as a manager but I don't think that excuses the same or similar issues we see week after week.

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Kyle

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Goodwin has been at St Mirren for under 18 months. He joined later in the summer than Davidson in his first season and wasn't given a squad which had just finished in the top 6.

I honestly thought he'd been there about 3 seasons now, my bad.

I'll never not disagree with you about last seasons squad, it wasn't that great, and Hendrys goals hid a lot of issues.

I daresay I'll likely look like a fanny in 5 months when we're accepting relegation and the manager has completely bombed, but I think hes come into this with a idea hes spent years planning, and refused to let that die off the back of a few defeats. Hopefully thats him now accepted its a flawed system and isn't the best for the majority of games, especially at home, and we can move on.

[Kyle]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I honestly thought he'd been there about 3 seasons now, my bad.

I'll never not disagree with you about last seasons squad, it wasn't that great, and Hendrys goals hid a lot of issues.

I daresay I'll likely look like a fanny in 5 months when we're accepting relegation and the manager has completely bombed, but I think hes come into this with a idea hes spent years planning, and refused to let that die off the back of a few defeats. Hopefully thats him now accepted its a flawed system and isn't the best for the majority of games, especially at home, and we can move on.

That's fair enough, the squad maybe wasn't great but the manager in charge pulled it into the top 6. This manager wont have the same success until he starts being more pragmatic and utilitises the squad in a manner which suits the players he has.

He will stick to it as all philosophy managers do. I think he's been bested tactically in most matches in the 2nd round of fixtures and he's only now making tweaks. We seem pretty easy to beat to be honest.

 

[Widge]

Goodwin was manager at Alloa for 18 months at least prior to being appointed at St Mirren. So it’s not like he was a fresh faced manager in his first role. 
 

Davidson as it in him, he’s clearly tactically minded, if it’s not showing yet. For me he needs to be more assertive with his decision, he needs to show a bit of passion. I get that having fans might change that, but him and Macca need to start the passion themselves. Not be afraid to chastise the players and call them out and also not be afraid to admit they’re wrong and alter the team if it’s not working. I think today is the first time he’s changed the team as a result of the previous result which is a positive. He just needs to learn and do it quickly. 

[Costanza]

Tanser injury looked pretty bad, seemed to land on his ankle. Might be a long term thing which is just another huge blow that we don't need at the moment.

[The Real Saints]

Callum Davidson seems like a bit of a wet blanket in most of his interviews. It has always been a concern of mine.

[tree house tam]

10 minutes ago, The Real Saints said:

Callum Davidson seems like a bit of a wet blanket in most of his interviews. It has always been a concern of mine.

Oaft.

There was this one time near Tannadice......

[Radford]

4 minutes ago, The Real Saints said:

Callum Davidson seems like a bit of a wet blanket in most of his interviews. It has always been a concern of mine.

It was a concern of mine and the management aspect will still be new to him but as a coach, I'm happy with him. I know folk will speak about stubbornness and philosophy but he's a smart guy and he'll get that side of it right. 

What we don't know is how he'll manage men and only time will tell on that front. 

I'd be really disappointed if the club did something stupid and panicked if we suffer another couple of bad results this week. But I'm certain they won't. 

[Dick Van Dyke]

12 minutes ago, Radford said:

It was a concern of mine and the management aspect will still be new to him but as a coach, I'm happy with him. I know folk will speak about stubbornness and philosophy but he's a smart guy and he'll get that side of it right. 

What we don't know is how he'll manage men and only time will tell on that front. 

I'd be really disappointed if the club did something stupid and panicked if we suffer another couple of bad results this week. But I'm certain they won't. 

Would you stick with him even if he takes us down?