Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[derek_holmes]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

If I made something like this...

For Saints games, would folk be interested? Or is it just too much information not worth a lot?

Not surprised to see His Knibbs only bothered to make four passes...

[Saigon Raider]

So in one game, Craig Conway produced more than Drey Wright managed in 2 seasons. I’ll let Radford have his say on that matter!

I know a lot of people don’t like him much and yes he’s a bit slow, but I remember saying at the start of the season I’d be ok with Wright going if we bring in a lesser player who contributes more, which I think is exactly what’s happened.

I said exactly the same thing after the Celtic game. Folk accusing him of phoning it in...I think he suffers from the Berbatov/Ozil thing of people thinking he is lazy no matter how much he runs. From what I have seen, he works very hard and is good at holding it up and keeping the ball.

He has lost a bit of pace but don't thing he's exactly slow. I think he is definitely in our best team right now.

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, Saigon Raider said:

I said exactly the same thing after the Celtic game. Folk accusing him of phoning it in...I think he suffers from the Berbatov/Ozil thing of people thinking he is lazy no matter how much he runs. From what I have seen, he works very hard and is good at holding it up and keeping the ball.

He has lost a bit of pace but don't thing he's exactly slow. I think he is definitely in our best team right now.

I'll admit I've been very much on the fence and some of his performances he's looked a bit sloppy, his finishing isn't top drawer and he's certainly not quick for a winger. He's definitely winning me round as he's having more impact (St Mirren, Celtic and yesterday all good performances) and certainly showed commitment on Saturday, and his crossing seemed better. I guess some of that has just been match fitness and getting used to the team / Scottish game again. 

Like others in the team it looks like he's compensating for pace with experience and touch.  May, Spoony and him are alike in that respect. It does seem to me that it means that we seem to pick up a lot of free kicks in the midfield in fairly neutral areas, but if we could inject some pace with a player that's more reliable/effective than O'Halloran  we might be able to drive on instead. Is Guy quick? Saying that, he did seem more in the penalty box yesterday than any of his other games. 

Like others though the lack of clean sheets is a worry as it's not easy to pin down. The CB's all seem sound, as does Danny and Tanser's probably better defensively than last season. As others have said out keepers aren't the best but since Zander's returned I don't think he's been at fault for any of goals we've lost. Arguably with Spoon and Tanser we're defensively weak on the left, especially as McCart seems to be making the odd mistake this year. Still, we shouldn't be losing as many goals, at least not on paper. 

[Radford]

If Conway continues producing the goods, anything else will be overlooked. The goals, assists and key passes must be mounting up now and it is a contrast to some former players who were deemed to be playing well, despite contributing nothing meaningful. 

I don't think he's lazy but do think there's a lot of poor stuff in amongst the more fruitful. Time with the team and confidence could reduce that though.

I wasn't concerned at all about being bottom as it was akin to being in a big pack of runners in a marathon but it was important to get a win again in the league after a few defeats. You just feel we are embarking on one of these good runs we have, hopefully anyway! 

[Old Pack]

From famine to feast in the goals department will give them a confidence boost.

[The Saintee]

Really pleased that Stevie is looking sharp and confident again. It'll be interesting to see how the new striker fits in. Nice to have options!

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Do we now have to many central strikers?

Is Kane's time up?

[Valentino Bolognese]

28 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

Really pleased that Stevie is looking sharp and confident again. It'll be interesting to see how the new striker fits in. Nice to have options!

It is indeed. 

In the middle of the park we have  Muzz, and McCann looking like absolute 'must starts', with Bryson looking really strong too.  I'd say Spoony and Conway are in the same bracket. 

Therefore if we're sticking with 3/5 at the back it seems to force us into playing a lone striker. I can't imagine Melamed will be on the bench much, unless he's going to be a mis-fire and will surely have to get a good amount of game time, but Stevie's undroppable right now. 

So .. will we see 4 at the back again? 

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Do we now have to many central strikers?

Is Kane's time up?

Funny, was thinking about this on my drive home. 

Melamed has played on both flanks in Israel, so I suppose our "depth chart", is...

CF: May, Kane, Hendry

WF: Wotherspoon, Conway, Melamed, MOH

... when we play 5-2-3. Melamed can also play central, and all 4 WFs can play on either side.

If we play a 5-3-2, then its 2 from May, Hendry, Kane and Melamed, with Conway/Wotherspoon competing for a central spot in modified. 

4-4-2/4-2-3-1, you have similar, but MOH becomes more useful.

Edited October 19, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

16 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Funny, was thinking about this on my drive home. 

Melamed has played on both flanks in Israel, so I suppose our "depth chart", is...

CF: May, Kane, Hendry

WF: Wotherspoon, Conway, Melamed, MOH

... when we play 5-2-3. Melamed can also play central, and all 4 WFs can play on either side.

If we play a 5-3-2, then its 2 from May, Hendry, Kane and Melamed, with Conway/Wotherspoon competing for a central spot in modified. 

4-4-2/4-2-3-1, you have similar, but MOH becomes more useful.

Admittedly I posting moaning pre match on Saturday that I don't like the 1 central striker with 2 in behind but it seemed to work well on Saturday, certainly at very least the individuals in those roles all played very well!

I still think Spoonys best role is wide left though. All his best spells for Saints have came while he was out there but it's clear the manager doesn't want to go with that shape so I think the 5-2-3 suits Spoony better than a 5-3-2 does as he can at least drift more easily into those wider channel areas in Davidson's 5-2-3 to impact games like he did for Mays first goal. 

If were going to play with one single striker though I can still see Kane moving on allowing us to free up money for a central defender (going to throw it out there on loan in January)

Let's just take a minute to admire Mr May on Saturday overall though. Poacher finishes (where he needs to be more often as the single central striker) composed set up play with a perfect pass laid on a plate for Conway to stroke home. Some other well timed runs as well. 

[Radford]

Does anyone still rate Zander Clark? 

[tree house tam]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

Does anyone still rate Zander Clark? 

Calum should bring in his own trusted keeper coach, if it doesn't change then Zander deserves what comes to him.

 

As an aside someone should send the stats to Mcdiarmid and also send him them via Twitter,  I really mean you Random. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by tree house tam

[The Saintee]

Clark has regressed significantly from some early promise. 

Goalkeeper is a massive weak spot for us as neither inspire confidence.

[mizfit]

Clark has regressed significantly from some early promise. 
Goalkeeper is a massive weak spot for us as neither inspire confidence.

I don’t understand how he’s lost his confidence.
I’d almost certainly say we need a new goalkeeper to give him a boot up the arse.

[Jamie_B]

To be fair to Clark, those numbers come from a very, very small sample size of three games. If it’s still like that after ten then, yes, there’s a big problem. But I don’t think anyone’s come away from the last three games and said Clark was definitely at fault for any of the goals he’s conceded. He could theoretically have maybe got to Forrest’s goal at Livi or the header at Hamilton - but both of those are efforts that have gone right in the corner of the net. There’s no howlers in there.

Not surprised that those stats bear out that McCrorie - “Rangers starlet” and Scotland call up - is shite. We’ve certainly not seen Clark throw one in the way he regularly has this season. See Killie’s third (I think) on Saturday as a prime example!

[Widge]

3 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

To be fair to Clark, those numbers come from a very, very small sample size of three games. If it’s still like that after ten then, yes, there’s a big problem. But I don’t think anyone’s come away from the last three games and said Clark was definitely at fault for any of the goals he’s conceded. He could theoretically have maybe got to Forrest’s goal at Livi or the header at Hamilton - but both of those are efforts that have gone right in the corner of the net. There’s no howlers in there.

Not surprised that those stats bear out that McCrorie - “Rangers starlet” and Scotland call up - is shite. We’ve certainly not seen Clark throw one in the way he regularly has this season. See Killie’s third (I think) on Saturday as a prime example!

Don't you'll get RandomGuy started!!

The thing with Clark is, he doesn't make any "over and above" saves anymore. For example when he was playing well and keeping clean sheets, there were numerous games you could look at and say he's made a match winning save that a lesser quality keeper wouldn't. Now he doesn't make these saves where you think wow, he only makes the saves you expect him to. I don't for a minute think the Clark of 2 seasons ago lets the Hamilton header in. Whilst you can't blame him in any way and fault him for not saving it, it's one where if he's playing like he can do he does save simply because he's capable of being better than average. Does that make sense?

He's gone from making Enkleman like saves to being more steady. It's similar to Alan Mannus, he never made any truly miraculous saves, but was instead a solid dependable keeper who'd almost never lose goals he was expected to save. 

[tree house tam]

Being completely shite for years and using confidence as an excuse isn't the best for a professional in my opinion, It just doesn't sit right with me. Everyone finds their level in life, confidence plays a part in this, of course it does. As do many other factors, I just think Zander is just a pretty shite Premiership keeper. Saints should be the highest level he'll play at.

[RandomGuy.]

I'm sure that Gers Report has a grudge against Clark, tbh.

Regardless, no matter what figure you look at, or how you break it down, Clark generally comes out as one of the worst keepers, if not the outright worst, in the league last season.

My daft wee rating system has him and Hendry as being negative impacts on the team this season.

[tree house tam]

20 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

My daft wee rating system has him and Hendry as being negative impacts on the team this season.

Most folk can see this without the help of your stats pal.

[Jamie_B]

30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm sure that Gers Report has a grudge against Clark, tbh.

Regardless, no matter what figure you look at, or how you break it down, Clark generally comes out as one of the worst keepers, if not the outright worst, in the league last season.

My daft wee rating system has him and Hendry as being negative impacts on the team this season.

There an inevitability that your keeper is going to look bad in the stats when he’s had Wallace Duffy at centre half in front of him at the start of the season

Agree that the exceptional saves he used to make seem to have disappeared and there are more strange errors (that Motherwell goal last season for example...) than there used to be. I don’t think he often throws them in but equally he has stopped making saves you wouldn’t expect a keeper at this level to make so often.

Still better than Parish though.