Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[the west curve]

No team wants to be bottom when the music stops. 

[nelsjfc]

Its not difficult to see where the problems lie. Appreciate the first goal this week and last week were soft goals but in general we've defended well. The pressure builds more on that back line every game. It's hard to see us winning tight games like today, when we're not winning ones we're dominating in.

May, Hendry, O'Hallaron and Conway have 2 goals and one assist between them. We need more quality in the final third.

[RossBFaeDundee]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Some nice play but just need that goalscorer? I'm pretty sure fans on here of every relegated team have said that on here since Gretna.

On the plus side, St Mirren look to not even able to muster the nice play aspect.

I can guarantee you I was not saying that when we went down for the majority of games.

Don't think it matters how bad St Johnstone are this season, there will be at least 2 teams playing worse than them, so I doubt relegation is a real worry.

[Shipa]

2 minutes ago, nelsjfc said:

 

 

Its not difficult to see where the problems lie. Appreciate the first goal this week and last week were soft goals but in general we've defended well. The pressure builds more on that back line every game. It's hard to see us winning tight games like today, when we're not winning ones we're dominating in.

May, Hendry, O'Hallaron and Conway have 2 goals and one assist between them. We need more quality in the final third.

 

I would say all 4 of them are decent quality players. I don't know why we're struggling to score so much, is it confidence, training, communication on the park? We do seem to be creating chances, and Conway is often part of that, seem to be doing everything but actually scoring.

[Radford]

Hendry and May will score goals. O'Halloran can be effective but he isn't an intelligent footballer, his best period was when he was told just to stick to the touchline, take the ball and sprint past people. 

I'm yet to be convinced that Conway isn't just phoning it in to prolong a career that will be more lucrative than anything he does in the future. The worry then becomes that Bryson is the same. What is the motivation for these guys that have spent so long at a high level? Swanson thrived on being the main man and Kennedy and Wright were playing for their next move.

I know he has his knockers but Kane can give defenders more to think about, he isn't afraid to take the knocks. The point made earlier about Hendry was very poorly (but innocently) worded but was correct, he looks very soft at the moment. 

Clear that Olaofe and Robertson aren't going to be involved. 

[RandomGuy.]

16 minutes ago, Shipa said:

I would say all 4 of them are decent quality players. I don't know why we're struggling to score so much, is it confidence, training, communication on the park? We do seem to be creating chances, and Conway is often part of that, seem to be doing everything but actually scoring.

I think 4 of Hendrys goals were from within 6 yards last season, and all almost unopposed. 

Why is that not happening this season?

We're both giving teams time to settle into position in their box, and also giving them absolutely no reason to do anything other than protect themselves from the cross.

May thrives on having space in behind, and can time his run incredibly well.

Nobody is looking for that pass this season. Conway did once in the first half and May was almost clean through, and Wotherspoon did in the second, but apart from that all we do is get May to stand in the box and expect him to find space against the defence on his own.

Davidson helps as he offers a (should be 3rd alongside two strikers) option in there, but again, he thrives on making late runs and everything seems so slow that he's already in position by the time the cross comes in.

I'm finding the amount of shots we're getting a totally false figure to be using, as it feels like the majority of them see the attacker under heavy pressure or facing the wrong way.

We need to find a way to get the strikers free in the box more often. They're too easy to mark i think.

Bit of a ramble and probably wrong, but its something I feel like the manager needs to identify and resolves. Signing an immobile big lump of wood would just make that even worse, IMO. 

[Shipa]

I often feel Kane does a lot in the build up but struggles to score. Are we putting too much pressure on by playing him as a striker and expecting him to score all the time? I do wonder if playing him in behind the strikers would suit him better, and if he got a few goals there when the expectation was less, get the confidence up, can always use him as a striker when needed.

[Ludo*1]

29 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I can guarantee you I was not saying that when we went down for the majority of games.

Don't think it matters how bad St Johnstone are this season, there will be at least 2 teams playing worse than them, so I doubt relegation is a real worry.

Good football but lack of goals summed up Neil McCann's tenure. Then we panicked went for the 'proven entity' in Jim McIntyre and played the worst football I'd seen since Kernaghan tbf. 

I don't think St Johnstone will get relegated unless they shit the bed like we did and punt Davidson and make a ridiculous appointment which hasn't generally been their style.

St Mirren would be my pick at this point having watched highlights of all the games and about 5-6 full games across the division thus far. I'd like to say Hamilton, but it won't be them.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Ludo*1

[Shipa]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think 4 of Hendrys goals were from within 6 yards last season, and all almost unopposed. 

Why is that not happening this season?

We're both giving teams time to settle into position in their box, and also giving them absolutely no reason to do anything other than protect themselves from the cross.

May thrives on having space in behind, and can time his run incredibly well.

Nobody is looking for that pass this season. Conway did once in the first half and May was almost clean through, and Wotherspoon did in the second, but apart from that all we do is get May to stand in the box and expect him to find space against the defence on his own.

Davidson helps as he offers a (should be 3rd alongside two strikers) option in there, but again, he thrives on making late runs and everything seems so slow that he's already in position by the time the cross comes in.

I'm finding the amount of shots we're getting a totally false figure to be using, as it feels like the majority of them see the attacker under heavy pressure or facing the wrong way.

We need to find a way to get the strikers free in the box more often. They're too easy to mark i think.

Bit of a ramble and probably wrong, but its something I feel like the manager needs to identify and resolves. Signing an immobile big lump of wood would just make that even worse, IMO. 

If guys are going 1 on 1 and as good as passing to the defending keeper, or placing it in Row Z,  it's not the pass in or the box being loaded with defenders. There seems to be some confidence/psychology thing where previously prolific strikers suddenly can't find the net. Looks to me like it happened with Kane, and is now happening with Hendry, so is it a training issue, a run of bad luck, I really don't know?

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Shipa said:

If guys are going 1 on 1 and as good as passing to the defending keeper, or placing it in Row Z,  it's not the pass in or the box being loaded with defenders. There seems to be some confidence/psychology thing where previously prolific strikers suddenly can't find the net. Looks to me like it happened with Kane, and is now happening with Hendry, so is it a training issue, a run of bad luck, I really don't know?

When has Hendry had a 1 on 1 with the keeper this season?

Only one I can think of is May v Motherwell, and even then its a first time shot on the turn.

Feels like our strikers are only getting chances in front of the defence, if that makes sense.

[nelsjfc]

I'm not really doubting the quality of the four guys I mentioned (I'd add Wotherspoon too but he's not played as far forward often). But clearly for whatever reason, it's not clicking for any of them at the moment. I'd agree with Radfords point that O'Hallarons not playing in his best position as well; he's not suited playing where the pitch is congested or when he's facing away from goal.

Kane returning isn't likely to bring goals directly but as an option may allow a bit more room for the others. I few others have been calling for a physical striker but it's only really a worthwhile move if they hit the ground running. It's an avenue that's not been successful in recent seasons.

The thing that reassures me is that Hendry, May and O'Hallaron have all had previous periods where they've spearheaded saints. Really need one to step up soon though. The current trend isn't sustainable.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Second goal. 

Didn't exactly fly in the corner did it... Should Mr Clark have saved it? Thinking he should do better. 

[PauloPerth]

I'm not panicking about the lack of goals yet, as big a concern as it is currently.  There are definitely goals in this team.

May, Wotherspoon, Davidson, Craig, O'Halloran, Hendry and McCann have all had spells of scoring for us at this level.  Add Chris Kane to that list and you've got 6 out of the top 10 premier(ship) scorers in St Johnstone's history playing in the same team! They don't become bad finishers overnight.  

I get RG's point about us not creating glaring opportunities, but there's still been some good ones. May's v Motherwell, Tanser v County, a few clear headers put over the bar, Hendry's one cleared off the line.  You're also looking for someone to create a goal out of nothing for themself as Campbell's did last week, as well as rely on teammates to set them up.

There seems to be a bit of a turning against Callum Hendry, which surprises me. I think he's a really promising player, still getting in good positions but just not making the right decisions at key moments. It's a big jump going from being an impact sub to the main man with all the expectation of getting the goals for the team weighing on your shoulders.  He just needs a break to spark a wee flurry of goals.

Obviously we can't afford to wait too long, but I hope the players don't lose confidence in each other and the manager.

[THE FAT MAN]

29 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Second goal. 

Didn't exactly fly in the corner did it... Should Mr Clark have saved it? Thinking he should do better. 

Bet ya Parish would have been hounded for that goal. 

[Shipa]

28 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

I'm not panicking about the lack of goals yet, as big a concern as it is currently.  There are definitely goals in this team.

May, Wotherspoon, Davidson, Craig, O'Halloran, Hendry and McCann have all had spells of scoring for us at this level.  Add Chris Kane to that list and you've got 6 out of the top 10 premier(ship) scorers in St Johnstone's history playing in the same team! They don't become bad finishers overnight.  

I get RG's point about us not creating glaring opportunities, but there's still been some good ones. May's v Motherwell, Tanser v County, a few clear headers put over the bar, Hendry's one cleared off the line.  You're also looking for someone to create a goal out of nothing for themself as Campbell's did last week, as well as rely on teammates to set them up.

There seems to be a bit of a turning against Callum Hendry, which surprises me. I think he's a really promising player, still getting in good positions but just not making the right decisions at key moments. It's a big jump going from being an impact sub to the main man with all the expectation of getting the goals for the team weighing on your shoulders.  He just needs a break to spark a wee flurry of goals.

Obviously we can't afford to wait too long, but I hope the players don't lose confidence in each other and the manager.

This is pretty much what I mean, but why does it seem to be happening? I'm loathe to put it down to the new manager, these are reasonably experienced professionals and shouldn't be so easily put off by that. Is there something in the training that's not working, not necessarily a criticism but are they training as a whole team just now, can they develop the trust and understanding needed as a team, is that a factor?

[Steve McQueen]

I think Kane is a good player to bring on when we are 1-0 up, isn't going to score but hassles defenders & runs the channels.

Unfortunately we've been in front for less than 20 mins all season.

[PauloPerth]

6 minutes ago, Shipa said:

This is pretty much what I mean, but why does it seem to be happening? I'm loathe to put it down to the new manager, these are reasonably experienced professionals and shouldn't be so easily put off by that. Is there something in the training that's not working, not necessarily a criticism but are they training as a whole team just now, can they develop the trust and understanding needed as a team, is that a factor?

Hard to say, but I don't think we've carried a lot of luck for starters;

Aberdeen had a weak shot defelceted in against us, Hibs got a dubious penalty in their favour in the last minute against us, And Ross County swung a free kick into the box that eluded everyone and went in.  All things that happen in a season, but when you think that we've had the third most shots in the league, put a f**k ton of crosses into the box, all being equal something would have deflected into the goal, or a keeper dropped a catch into his own net or at the feet of a striker a yard from goal.

Obviously there's far more to it than just luck, but it hasn't helped.  

I think someone mentioned it recently, but there were games under Tommy Wright the season after the cup win where we would win  1-0 having had one shot at goal the entire game.  And it felt like it happened quite often over a spell.

 

[Shipa]

2 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Hard to say, but I don't think we've carried a lot of luck for starters;

Aberdeen had a weak shot defelceted in against us, Hibs got a dubious penalty in their favour in the last minute against us, And Ross County swung a free kick into the box that eluded everyone and went in.  All things that happen in a season, but when you think that we've had the third most shots in the league, put a f**k ton of crosses into the box, all being equal something would have deflected into the goal, or a keeper dropped a catch into his own net or at the feet of a striker a yard from goal.

Obviously there's far more to it than just luck, but it hasn't helped.  

I think someone mentioned it recently, but there were games under Tommy Wright the season after the cup win where we would win  1-0 having had one shot at goal the entire game.  And it felt like it happened quite often over a spell.

 

Maybe it is just down to luck. What little I've seen of us this season (last week's game and some highlights), but also what I've read/heard, we seem to play some bloody good football and not capitalise on it, then lose to silly mistakes. Under Tommy there was I think a confidence that we would turn it round, that's not so much there just now, doesn't mean it won't happen though.

The fact we're not getting to the games, seeing it for ourselves, getting the atmosphere I think clouds judgement a bit too.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

20 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Hard to say, but I don't think we've carried a lot of luck for starters;

Aberdeen had a weak shot defelceted in against us, Hibs got a dubious penalty in their favour in the last minute against us, And Ross County swung a free kick into the box that eluded everyone and went in.  All things that happen in a season, but when you think that we've had the third most shots in the league, put a f**k ton of crosses into the box, all being equal something would have deflected into the goal, or a keeper dropped a catch into his own net or at the feet of a striker a yard from goal.

Obviously there's far more to it than just luck, but it hasn't helped.  

I think someone mentioned it recently, but there were games under Tommy Wright the season after the cup win where we would win  1-0 having had one shot at goal the entire game.  And it felt like it happened quite often over a spell.

 

Not to mention if Callum’s goal had counted against Hibs,wouldn’t have lost imo,we deserve more  points no doubt 

[Salguodinmethven.]

4 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Good football but lack of goals summed up Neil McCann's tenure. Then we panicked went for the 'proven entity' in Jim McIntyre and played the worst football I'd seen since Kernaghan tbf. 

I don't think St Johnstone will get relegated unless they shit the bed like we did and punt Davidson and make a ridiculous appointment which hasn't generally been their style.

St Mirren would be my pick at this point having watched highlights of all the games and about 5-6 full games across the division thus far. I'd like to say Hamilton, but it won't be them.

Exactly what crossed my mind earlier, reminded me of mcanns style. Saints through n through but Davidson does not currently convnce me , and McLean has brought the opposite of help to our strikers.