Dick Van Dyke Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Do you think what we’ve seen so far has been good? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widge Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said: Do you think what we’ve seen so far has been good? In terms of end product and results, absolutely not, it's not been good enough. In terms of style of play, dominating games, the way we've defended (for the most part) and introducing new tactics, yes, it's been very positive. If refereeing decisions go our way and the strikers take the clear cut chances they would have last season, we'd be sitting with 6/7 more goals and at least 7 more points. I can think off the top of my head of - Hendry goal ruled out vs Hibs Dubious penalty given against us vs Hibs leading to goal May misses clear chance vs Motherwell Tanser misses clear chance vs Ross County Potential soft decision/foul in box vs Ross County leading to goal Potential penalty not given against Ross County Hendry misses clear chance vs Rangers Hendry misses clear chance vs Kilmarnock (admittedly we won that game) I'm not making excuses, we should have more points than we do, but in terms of chances I'd wager we'd have taken a number of these last season. We just need to find a little more decisiveness in our play and a bit more of a clinical streak (which we're capable of) add in the soft goals we're conceding, which may improve without Parish in nets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said: Do you think what we’ve seen so far has been good? I think the United first half was a complete shambles, and I think the first half v Killie, but apart from that there's been nothing (in retrospect, since its clear my comments during matches is reactive pish) thats been absolutely horrendous. I've no idea if you've forgotten about some performances under TW, but our final game under him was absolutely fucking awful and I think we only had 1 shot on target, a remarkably common theme under him. I'm sure we went a season (probably 14/15) where we had a run of 3 or 4 away games without a shot on target. Youre comparing a rookie manager with an injury hit, young, squad, being built under the watch of senior management intent on making profits by any means, against an experienced manager who had an almost free reign at the club, who took charge of a side who just finished 3rd, and had the most prolific top flight striker we'd had for decades primed to break through alongside MacLean. Give Davidson time, his starting position is further back than Wrights was, and it wasn't plain sailing under him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Widge said: In terms of end product and results, absolutely not, it's not been good enough. In terms of style of play, dominating games, the way we've defended (for the most part) and introducing new tactics, yes, it's been very positive. If refereeing decisions go our way and the strikers take the clear cut chances they would have last season, we'd be sitting with 6/7 more goals and at least 7 more points. I can think off the top of my head of - Hendry goal ruled out vs Hibs Dubious penalty given against us vs Hibs leading to goal May misses clear chance vs Motherwell Tanser misses clear chance vs Ross County Potential soft decision/foul in box vs Ross County leading to goal Potential penalty not given against Ross County Hendry misses clear chance vs Rangers Hendry misses clear chance vs Kilmarnock (admittedly we won that game) I'm not making excuses, we should have more points than we do, but in terms of chances I'd wager we'd have taken a number of these last season. We just need to find a little more decisiveness in our play and a bit more of a clinical streak (which we're capable of) add in the soft goals we're conceding, which may improve without Parish in nets. Why did we need new tactics? It took tommy 6 months to fine tune a system and players we had. Callum said he wasn’t going to change much and then has went and changed loads. This isn’t a season to be fucking about in trying and trying new things. Maybe we have been unlucky in some games but the manager seems determined to play his system regardless of the results. Also what was the point in signing Olafe? We’ve been 1-0 down in 3 of our last 4 games and only made 4 subs so why not give him a chance? If he’s not going to play him then why not bring I’m someone who’s going to make some sort of impact especially if we’re running with a small squad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I think the United first half was a complete shambles, and I think the first half v Killie, but apart from that there's been nothing (in retrospect, since its clear my comments during matches is reactive pish) thats been absolutely horrendous. I've no idea if you've forgotten about some performances under TW, but our final game under him was absolutely fucking awful and I think we only had 1 shot on target, a remarkably common theme under him. I'm sure we went a season (probably 14/15) where we had a run of 3 or 4 away games without a shot on target. Youre comparing a rookie manager with an injury hit, young, squad, being built under the watch of senior management intent on making profits by any means, against an experienced manager who had an almost free reign at the club, who took charge of a side who just finished 3rd, and had the most prolific top flight striker we'd had for decades primed to break through alongside MacLean. Give Davidson time, his starting position is further back than Wrights was, and it wasn't plain sailing under him. That’s fair enough, I appreciate thats your opinion and we obviously see things completely different. I just don’t see what we’re trying to do in games except spam crosses into tiny strikers and not get enough men in the box because we’ve always got 3 centre half’s playing. I don’t think performances have been absolutely awful but I just don’t see how things are going to change we’ve been ‘dominating’ games without actually creating loads of chances, I don’t blame the strikers because bar the motherwell game I don’t think we’ve created that much in games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widge Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said: Why did we need new tactics? It took tommy 6 months to fine tune a system and players we had. Callum said he wasn’t going to change much and then has went and changed loads. This isn’t a season to be fucking about in trying and trying new things. Maybe we have been unlucky in some games but the manager seems determined to play his system regardless of the results. Also what was the point in signing Olafe? We’ve been 1-0 down in 3 of our last 4 games and only made 4 subs so why not give him a chance? If he’s not going to play him then why not bring I’m someone who’s going to make some sort of impact especially if we’re running with a small squad He hasn't really changed loads though has he? That starting XI on saturday and the way they set up and played was pretty much the same one Wright had been putting out (replace Wright with McNamara and Butcher/Davidson with Craig). From where I was sitting they played in a very similar style, with the exception of Kerr having a little more freedom to get forward. Let's not get started on the pointless loan signings that Wright made who never got a game. Jones, Morgan, Vihmann, Nydam, Smith to say the least. Not every signing works out and actually having some depth isn't a bad thing! So Davidson has made one questionable loan signing, he's got some way to go before he replicates Wright or Lomas for useless signings that will never contribute to saints. You've clearly got an agenda against Davidson, so there's no point in highlighting these things, but you're going down the wrong path entirely if you're wanting to criticise him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said: I just don’t see how things are going to change we’ve been ‘dominating’ games without actually creating loads of chances, I don’t blame the strikers because bar the motherwell game I don’t think we’ve created that much in games. Against County we had Tanser miss an open goal, Davidson fail to score from about 8 yards out under no pressure, and McCann almost had a simple chance from a May cut back but the bounce took it from him. We also had MOH with 1 defender to beat to have a free shot from 5 yards (he went the wrong way as hes thick). May had a free shot from inside the box that he sclaffed a bit, Hendry had a shot on the turn (while Tanser was completely unmarked to his side, but thats another matter), and Kerr had a header from 6 yards that just went over. How many chances are you expecting Saints to be making each match? 10 shots from inside the box against County isn't a below average number. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Widge said: He hasn't really changed loads though has he? That starting XI on saturday and the way they set up and played was pretty much the same one Wright had been putting out (replace Wright with McNamara and Butcher/Davidson with Craig). From where I was sitting they played in a very similar style, with the exception of Kerr having a little more freedom to get forward. Let's not get started on the pointless loan signings that Wright made who never got a game. Jones, Morgan, Vihmann, Nydam, Smith to say the least. Not every signing works out and actually having some depth isn't a bad thing! So Davidson has made one questionable loan signing, he's got some way to go before he replicates Wright or Lomas for useless signings that will never contribute to saints. You've clearly got an agenda against Davidson, so there's no point in highlighting these things, but you're going down the wrong path entirely if you're wanting to criticise him. He’s asked our best two players from last season to play completely different roles and IMO there performances have dropped off dramatically. He’s got this ridiculous Jason Kerr up the right wing carry on. The first 5/6 games he played a formation/ system the players hadn’t played before. my point on the loan signing is that Olafe shouldn’t have been a punt. He knows him so should know if he’s good enough or not. He would’ve also known we couldn’t bring too many players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Against County we had Tanser miss an open goal, Davidson fail to score from about 8 yards out under no pressure, and McCann almost had a simple chance from a May cut back but the bounce took it from him. We also had MOH with 1 defender to beat to have a free shot from 5 yards (he went the wrong way as hes thick). May had a free shot from inside the box that he sclaffed a bit, Hendry had a shot on the turn (while Tanser was completely unmarked to his side, but thats another matter), and Kerr had a header from 6 yards that just went over. How many chances are you expecting Saints to be making each match? 10 shots from inside the box against County isn't a below average number. We only had 1 shot on target! Agree the tanser chance and the Davidson chance we’re really good ones but I should’ve been more clear I was talking about clear cut chances not wee half chances like you’ve listed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said: We only had 1 shot on target! Agree the tanser chance and the Davidson chance we’re really good ones but I should’ve been more clear I was talking about clear cut chances not wee half chances like you’ve listed. You don't think these are "clear cut chances"? Edited September 22, 2020 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 The argument that we're playing absolutely shite bears little to no scrutiny. Some interesting stats posted on Twitter this morning showing that only Rangers and Celtic have created more/better chances than we have this season, and that we have given up the fourth fewest chances in the league. We're playing the same shape that TW had us playing with broadly the same players. We're probably actually defending better overall than we did at the end of last season. We've actually barely given our opponents a touch in the box or a clear chance in the last few games (certainly against Motherwell, County, St Mirren, maybe Hibs and Aberdeen as well). The goals we conceded in those games either involved deflections (Aberdeen), a penalty (Hibs), a cross that's floated all the way in (County) and a superb long range shot from one of, if not the, form player in the league (Motherwell). In all those games we had comfortably the better chances, with absolutely clear opportunities in every single one. It maybe hasn't been a case of raining down shots and having open goal after open goal - but you'd expect when you have two or three clear cut chances a game to score one or two of them, and that's before you take a half chance. get a penalty out of nothing or score a header from a corner or capitalise on an error (for an example, see Motherwell's three goals at Aberdeen at the weekend - they were 2-0 up inside ten minutes without having done anything themselves). We're preventing our opponents from getting chances (we've hardly given up a shot in the box in the last few games), we're creating chances - maybe we could create more but more than anything we need to start taking the ones we are making - and we're dominating possession and territory in just about every game. Put it this way - if Campbell's shot at Motherwell is blocked and we take, say, May's chance in the second half to win 1-0 we probably all come on here raving about a good away performance against one of last season's better teams. One in which we controlled the ball, shut out our opponents and had the chances to win more comfortably. The margins are pretty thin at the moment. A goal for May/Hendry to give them a confidence boost would make a world of difference. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 15 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: You don't think these are "clear cut chances"? I do think they are good chances yes that why I said it in my previous post. The rest of the chances you listed were just wee half chances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Jamie_Beatson said: The argument that we're playing absolutely shite bears little to no scrutiny. Some interesting stats posted on Twitter this morning showing that only Rangers and Celtic have created more/better chances than we have this season, and that we have given up the fourth fewest chances in the league. We're playing the same shape that TW had us playing with broadly the same players. We're probably actually defending better overall than we did at the end of last season. We've actually barely given our opponents a touch in the box or a clear chance in the last few games (certainly against Motherwell, County, St Mirren, maybe Hibs and Aberdeen as well). The goals we conceded in those games either involved deflections (Aberdeen), a penalty (Hibs), a cross that's floated all the way in (County) and a superb long range shot from one of, if not the, form player in the league (Motherwell). In all those games we had comfortably the better chances, with absolutely clear opportunities in every single one. It maybe hasn't been a case of raining down shots and having open goal after open goal - but you'd expect when you have two or three clear cut chances a game to score one or two of them, and that's before you take a half chance. get a penalty out of nothing or score a header from a corner or capitalise on an error (for an example, see Motherwell's three goals at Aberdeen at the weekend - they were 2-0 up inside ten minutes without having done anything themselves). We're preventing our opponents from getting chances (we've hardly given up a shot in the box in the last few games), we're creating chances - maybe we could create more but more than anything we need to start taking the ones we are making - and we're dominating possession and territory in just about every game. Put it this way - if Campbell's shot at Motherwell is blocked and we take, say, May's chance in the second half to win 1-0 we probably all come on here raving about a good away performance against one of last season's better teams. One in which we controlled the ball, shut out our opponents and had the chances to win more comfortably. The margins are pretty thin at the moment. A goal for May/Hendry to give them a confidence boost would make a world of difference. I never said we’re playing absolutely Shite I just don’t think we’ve been as good as everyone is making out. All those stats point to us actually playing well and we should be higher in the league, fair enough but we’re not winning. What happens when we start playing really poorly? If we can’t when when we’re completely dominating games ( in some people’s eyes) then it doesn’t look good for when performances drop off. it’s all ifs, buts and maybes. What if Campbell hadn’t scored and May had? Could easily be flipped round to what if Millen never got sent off and and killie scored a second? It’s all fine margins which we seem to be on the wrong side of more often than not. Not that anybody cares but if I’m wrong I’ll come on here and admit it but from what I’ve seen so far, in my opinion he’s not the man for the job 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 @Jamie_Beatson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Radford said: @Jamie_Beatson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 36 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said: I do think they are good chances yes that why I said it in my previous post. The rest of the chances you listed were just wee half chances. Wee half chances that were major opportunities, but players made the wrong decision. MOH is the worst, he literally has a free shot at goal from 6 yards if he goes with his momentum to the right, instead he goes left into a dead end filled with defenders. How can you blame that on the system or Davidson? They can only create the scenario for MOH to be isolated in the box against a defender, they cant control what he does in that scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Positive, sometimes. Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: Wee half chances that were major opportunities, but players made the wrong decision. MOH is the worst, he literally has a free shot at goal from 6 yards if he goes with his momentum to the right, instead he goes left into a dead end filled with defenders. How can you blame that on the system or Davidson? They can only create the scenario for MOH to be isolated in the box against a defender, they cant control what he does in that scenario. I dont often shout at the tv when watching football but that moment you're talking about make me rage. Not seen it back again but at the time I was totally lost with what the f**k he was trying to do. "JUST FUCKING SHOOT!!!!" ---- Re Saints overall that everyone is talking about. For those like Mr Dick Van Dyke who is clearly fed up with the groundhog day type stuff going on out on the park. "but we played well" was fine 2 games ago but now after ye t more of the same and 1-0 defeats to go with it the patience has worn thin for him and others! Not overly enamoured with stats etc but if you look at the fact were creating chances from a different perspective. We've been creating chances and still not scoring. What level of chance will it take for us to actually score in games? does it basically need to be a sitter for us to score? Although constantly being 1-0 down doesn't help potentially confidence shy strikers as well. Edited September 23, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Just now, Mr Positive, sometimes. said: I dont often shout at the tv when watching football but that moment you're talking about make me rage. Not seen it back again but at the time I was totally lost with what the f**k he was trying to do. "JUST FUCKING SHOOT!!!!" Follows the arrow then he's fine. Either a shot from close range or even a cross where anybody could knock it in, even a defender. Absolutely no idea why he goes left towards the crowd. Davidson to blame for playing O'Halloran, IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Follows the arrow then he's fine. Either a shot from close range or even a cross where anybody could knock it in, even a defender. Absolutely no idea why he goes left towards the crowd. Davidson to blame for playing O'Halloran, IMO. Where does the buck stop when teams are underperforming? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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