Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[andrewh]

Parish has earned an opportunity IMO.
Clark wouldn't have stopped any of the goals we've conceded either.

Might have fumbled a few of the saves Parish made, letting them squirm under him and into the net. Is he too tall and so it takes longer to get down to make a save?

[Widge]

Ok, hear me out here, this might be a totally random thought, but I thought I'd share it.

Are we better than last season already?

Whilst we haven't scored the goals we should have, our play has created opportunities and poor decisions have cost us in games. We're solid defensively and it's taking a lot to break us down now whilst also playing out from the back and generally playing better football than we did under Wright. Davidson has added different elements to our game, mainly the addition of Kerr being given the freedom down the right hand side and it's causing chaos in games at times. 

As for the players, McNamara is a clear upgrade on Ralston, you can argue that Craig Conway has already added more to the squad than Drey Wright ever did. Yes we're short in areas and these will be addressed, but 2/3  of Davidson's signings have already provided positive contributions. As for the existing players, we've now got a Stevie May back who was hitting some good form and he's continued that off the bench, Callum Hendry may not have scored, but his overall play has improved a lot. Some of his touches and lay offs are excellent and as a player he's clearly developing a bit of the Macca about him with the one touch stuff, which is great to see. We've also got a re-invigorated O'Halloran, who lets face it kicked his heels last season, but he's looking a bit like the old Michael we had before. That's just the forwards, Jason Kerr looks back to being our best defender again and has finally settled into the captains role, it's between him and Danny Mac for our best player so far this season. Lets not forget Spoony who's also picked up from last season and seems to have found a level of consistency that was lacking at times.

Whilst I'll acknowledge that we're lacking in depth, another couple of signings (midfielder or two being essential) we're pretty much the same team as last year. I think Callum has realised already he needs to tweak the formation and that's paying dividends. So we're the same team as last year, with a couple of positions improved and a slightly more attacking manager with some clear ideas that so far are working. Have the results and performances been there, not entirely; however we more than matched both Aberdeen and Hibs, arguably should have gotten 4 points out of those games and given everyone sees them as the clear top 6 contenders I think we're there or there abouts. Whilst the St Mirren and Dundee fans can cling on to the fact Davidson is a rookie manager, he's learning every game and for that reason alone I'm positive about the season ahead. Teams aren't going to batter us and outplay us (baring the Glasgow games) and in every game this season we've looked like picking up points. Which considering the first "crap" team we've played is St Mirren, that's a good thing. I'll not include United for now by virtue of it being a first game after promotion and that's not a fair indicator, even so we came out second half with 10 men and outplayed them for half an hour.

So go on saints fans (I'm looking at you Tam) pick holes in what I've said, but I've woken up feeling optimistic in us this season. 

[scottmcleanscontacts]

Ok, hear me out here, this might be a totally random thought, but I thought I'd share it.
Are we better than last season already?
Whilst we haven't scored the goals we should have, our play has created opportunities and poor decisions have cost us in games. We're solid defensively and it's taking a lot to break us down now whilst also playing out from the back and generally playing better football than we did under Wright. Davidson has added different elements to our game, mainly the addition of Kerr being given the freedom down the right hand side and it's causing chaos in games at times. 
As for the players, McNamara is a clear upgrade on Ralston, you can argue that Craig Conway has already added more to the squad than Drey Wright ever did. Yes we're short in areas and these will be addressed, but 2/3  of Davidson's signings have already provided positive contributions. As for the existing players, we've now got a Stevie May back who was hitting some good form and he's continued that off the bench, Callum Hendry may not have scored, but his overall play has improved a lot. Some of his touches and lay offs are excellent and as a player he's clearly developing a bit of the Macca about him with the one touch stuff, which is great to see. We've also got a re-invigorated O'Halloran, who lets face it kicked his heels last season, but he's looking a bit like the old Michael we had before. That's just the forwards, Jason Kerr looks back to being our best defender again and has finally settled into the captains role, it's between him and Danny Mac for our best player so far this season. Lets not forget Spoony who's also picked up from last season and seems to have found a level of consistency that was lacking at times.
Whilst I'll acknowledge that we're lacking in depth, another couple of signings (midfielder or two being essential) we're pretty much the same team as last year. I think Callum has realised already he needs to tweak the formation and that's paying dividends. So we're the same team as last year, with a couple of positions improved and a slightly more attacking manager with some clear ideas that so far are working. Have the results and performances been there, not entirely; however we more than matched both Aberdeen and Hibs, arguably should have gotten 4 points out of those games and given everyone sees them as the clear top 6 contenders I think we're there or there abouts. Whilst the St Mirren and Dundee fans can cling on to the fact Davidson is a rookie manager, he's learning every game and for that reason alone I'm positive about the season ahead. Teams aren't going to batter us and outplay us (baring the Glasgow games) and in every game this season we've looked like picking up points. Which considering the first "crap" team we've played is St Mirren, that's a good thing. I'll not include United for now by virtue of it being a first game after promotion and that's not a fair indicator, even so we came out second half with 10 men and outplayed them for half an hour.
So go on saints fans (I'm looking at you Tam) pick holes in what I've said, but I've woken up feeling optimistic in us this season. 

I'm very much in two minds.

I think we've played well enough in all three home games but in the first two didn't really do anywhere near enough to win - neither did Aberdeen or Hibs for that matter.

Against St. Mirren the play in the last third was much improved - along with the nice build up we created a few decent chances.

The away games we've done ok as well. A point at Tannadice is acceptable and we did alright second half with 10 men. Rangers - move on. Killie - perfect performance against 10 men - we penned them in, all you can do, and we got our rewards.

Would I say I'm happy with 7 points? - No, not really. I think we should have at least 9 given how the games have went.

[perthsaint1977]

One thing to bring to the table is the players are more relaxed with Callum than TW. Was alot of walking on eggshells with TW. Not saying the Callum is soft etc but he's already shown a different style of man management.

[PauloPerth]

I feel massively more optimistic after the second half of the Hibs game and Saturday's fine performance. My big fear was Davidson was going to stubbornly stick to the 3-4-3 that made us look devoid of any creativity, but fair play he's made the necessary adjustment and so far it's worked a treat.

Early to say either way, as another bad performance or two and we're probably back to negative vibes, but a lot of encouraging signs.

Agree with most of @Widge 's player assessments, with the exception of the Craig Conway/ Drey Wright comment. Second half on Saturday was the first time I thought Conway might turn out to be a good signing for us.  I also think there's been quite a turning on Drey Wright to do with his end product, but he was still a very good player for us at both ends of the park, so I'm going to reserve judgement on that one to see if Conway's  contribution will be consistent.

But yes, when you look at the quality of the rest of the teams so far, the top half is wide open.  I think Aberdeen on yesterday's performance look ahead of the rest of the pack, but I don't rate the widely fancied Hibs, or any of the other teams I've seen as better than us. With a couple of key additions and luck with injuries, you never know.  There should be quite a few teams, including us, with an eye on 4th place.

[Widge]

32 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Agree with most of @Widge 's player assessments, with the exception of the Craig Conway/ Drey Wright comment. Second half on Saturday was the first time I thought Conway might turn out to be a good signing for us.  I also think there's been quite a turning on Drey Wright to do with his end product, but he was still a very good player for us at both ends of the park, so I'm going to reserve judgement on that one to see if Conway's  contribution will be consistent.

I was one of Drey Wright's biggest fans and I agree he was a great player who had plenty of positives to his game in terms of pace, work rate and defensive ability. However I said at the start of the season I'd rather let him go for the money he wanted and bring in a lesser winger who'd actually contribute, which Conway already has. He may not be as good as Wright, but if he makes more contributions then he's already adding more to the team. I think the only place for Wright if he'd stayed would have been at right wing back and whilst he was good there, Danny McNamara has been our best player and to be honest has the same number of assists that Wright had in 2 seasons and frankly he looks more likely to score as well!

If were playing with a set of wingers I'd have loved to keep him, as he's genuinely entertaining and a great player to watch. But I'm not sad to see him move on for the amount of money he wanted!

[Radford]

One thing is certain for @Widge and that's if Pie & Bovril doesn't work out for him, he'll be a shoo-in for Iraqi Information Minister.

[PauloPerth]

2 minutes ago, Widge said:

I was one of Drey Wright's biggest fans and I agree he was a great player who had plenty of positives to his game in terms of pace, work rate and defensive ability. However I said at the start of the season I'd rather let him go for the money he wanted and bring in a lesser winger who'd actually contribute, which Conway already has. He may not be as good as Wright, but if he makes more contributions then he's already adding more to the team. I think the only place for Wright if he'd stayed would have been at right wing back and whilst he was good there, Danny McNamara has been our best player and to be honest has the same number of assists that Wright had in 2 seasons and frankly he looks more likely to score as well!

If were playing with a set of wingers I'd have loved to keep him, as he's genuinely entertaining and a great player to watch. But I'm not sad to see him move on for the amount of money he wanted!

Agree widge, Danny Mac looks to be far better value for money. He's getting better every game as well.  And same, breaking the bank for Wright wasn't worth it, every player has there value, especially for us.  It was just whether Conway is a more effective player..

I hadn't been overly impressed with him until after half time on Saturday, but if he contributes regularly as he did in that second half then I'll be in complete agreement!

 

Interesting how we line up in our next match, with Davidson, Craig and May all back fighting for a place.  I think Stevie May would be really good at the role Conway played in the second half, just behind the front two, as he's a good passer and might get a lot more space to feed MOH and Hendry then get up in support. Either that or it's him and Hendry up front with Conway  (or MOH) in behind.

[PauloPerth]

"their value"

[Widge]

57 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Interesting how we line up in our next match, with Davidson, Craig and May all back fighting for a place.  I think Stevie May would be really good at the role Conway played in the second half, just behind the front two, as he's a good passer and might get a lot more space to feed MOH and Hendry then get up in support. Either that or it's him and Hendry up front with Conway  (or MOH) in behind.

O'Halloran drops out, there's no point playing May behind strikers as the one place you want him, is in the middle of the box. I'd happily say if May had been playing in the last 2/3 games he'd have scored at least 1 or 2 of the cutbacks, or at the very least gotten on the end of them. We saw with his goals last season he isn't going to beat a man or take a shot from 20 yards any more, he's at his most effective between centrebacks within 12 yards of the goal. I'd worry he doesn't have the pace to make up that ground if he's in behind the strikers. 

[tree house tam]

6 hours ago, Widge said:

So go on saints fans (I'm looking at you Tam) pick holes in what I've said, but I've woken up feeling optimistic in us this season. 

Why would I do that pal? It's your opinion, it might not be exactly the way I'm looking at it but you basically come round to my way of thinking eventually anyway .

I've went from being very optimistic about this season to watching turgid shite that the manager wouldn't change to feeling a wee bit better again about this season. It's a  long season though and I'll reserve my judgement until all players are in and seeing how Callum adapts to certain situations. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by tree house tam

[The Saintee]

5 hours ago, andrewh said:

Might have fumbled a few of the saves Parish made, letting them squirm under him and into the net. Is he too tall and so it takes longer to get down to make a save?

It's not a problem for guys like Nick Pope though who's 6'7. I'd say Zander is about average size for a keeper these days.

[RandomGuy.]

I think we're a better footballing side than last season, but also think that we won't necessarily pick up more wins than last season.

This season is going to mostly be about Davidson learning so we'll have some absolute disasters chucked in along the way IMO. As long as we survive and its clear but he and the players are improving ill be happy enough tbh. 

 

[THE FAT MAN]

19 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

And the actual goal that he scored against Hibs. What does XG do when a goal is scored but incorrectly disallowed?

What is all this XG nonsense?I'm 61 and genuinely no idea.

[RandomGuy.]

37 minutes ago, THE FAT MAN said:

What is all this XG?

Its gives a "rating" to shots.

The company who gathers data goes through historical shots (Opta claim they have a database of over 300k shots to build the model), and assigns chances a "rating", based on whats happened in the past.

They calculate the score based on where the shots been taken from, whether its a header/strong foot/weak foot shot, the type of assist (cross/pass/etc.), where the assist has come from, and what type of attack created it (set piece/counter/build up).

They compare all the above to previous chances in the same situation, and hand it a score between 0.1 and 1.

Mays goal on Saturday was from a 0.33 chance, which in simple terms means you'd expect that chance, from that cross, to be scored 33% of the time.

Its just a fairer way to evaluate attackers, and teams. Before it youd look at Hendry having 15 shots and 0 goals and say he's struggling, while xG proves he's not getting chances youd be expecting him to score from, so the issue is more creating chances than finishing them.

[Ludo*1]

4 hours ago, The Saintee said:

It's not a problem for guys like Nick Pope though who's 6'7. I'd say Zander is about average size for a keeper these days.

Whit?

Nick Pope is nowhere near 6'7.  The Burnley website even lists him as 6'2.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Its gives a "rating" to shots.

The company who gathers data goes through historical shots (Opta claim they have a database of over 300k shots to build the model), and assigns chances a "rating", based on whats happened in the past.

They calculate the score based on where the shots been taken from, whether its a header/strong foot/weak foot shot, the type of assist (cross/pass/etc.), where the assist has come from, and what type of attack created it (set piece/counter/build up).

They compare all the above to previous chances in the same situation, and hand it a score between 0.1 and 1.

Mays goal on Saturday was from a 0.33 chance, which in simple terms means you'd expect that chance, from that cross, to be scored 33% of the time.

Its just a fairer way to evaluate attackers, and teams. Before it youd look at Hendry having 15 shots and 0 goals and say he's struggling, while xG proves he's not getting chances youd be expecting him to score from, so the issue is more creating chances than finishing them.

Just for reference, what xG does a penalty get?

[PauloPerth]

No worries, just googled it. 0.76 apparently.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, PauloPerth said:

Just for reference, what xG does a penalty get?

Can't remember offhand but sure its in the 70% category, so like 0.74.

Can check later on.

[RandomGuy.]

15 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

No worries, just googled it. 0.76 apparently.

Saves me a job then

Unlikely to find a much higher chance tbh, which shows there is still flaws with the system. In general it seems pretty good though.

0.38 or higher is classed as a "big chance", so anything above or near that and you should be criticising the striker for missing.