Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Widge]

Saints recent transfer dealings deserve no credit! 

I think when it comes to selling players to other clubs, it most definitely does. I can’t think of a single player we’ve sold where we’ve not actually got a good deal in recent seasons.

[Dons_1988]

Tbh saints should be setting a price with a heavy premium on it and telling clubs to offer it by the end of the week or forget it. f**k selling when you have no time to replace him.
As long as Kennedy isn’t causing any trouble then you keep him for no less than something you literally can’t turn down.

[Kyle]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Tbh saints should be setting a price with a heavy premium on it and telling clubs to offer it by the end of the week or forget it. f**k selling when you have no time to replace him.
As long as Kennedy isn’t causing any trouble then you keep him for no less than something you literally can’t turn down.

^^^ This. 100% this.

I don't think Kennedy is the type to throw a wobbly. Heavy premium for Aberdeen or a heavy premium x 2 for Hearts and try and eek out a decent player on loan from either as well. 

 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Does anyone really believe Saints will play hardball on the Kennedy deal? I doubt it. 

If he signs a precontract somewhere I see us accepting anything above 30-40k. 

[Widge]

Does anyone really believe Saints will play hardball on the Kennedy deal? I doubt it. 
If he signs a precontract somewhere I see us accepting anything above 30-40k. 

Not a chance, we’d be wanting 6 figures easily. As he’s worth so much more than that if he helps us avoid relegation.

[DukDukGoose]

11 minutes ago, Widge said:

 

Not a chance, we’d be wanting 6 figures easily. As he’s worth so much more than that if he helps us avoid relegation.

 

What is the prize money difference between each place in the bottom 6? Around £100k or so? Add on the television revenue for next season.

Unless you're getting decent enough cash to fill the gaps you have in other places (even short term loans) then it's not worthwhile selling him,. Especially to Hearts.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Merkland Red

[Widge]

What is the prize money difference between each place in the bottom 6? Around £100k or so? Add on the television revenue for next season.
Unless you're getting decent enough cash to fill the gaps you have in other places (even short term loans) then it's not worthwhile selling him,. Especially to Hearts.

Yeah it’s not the prize money that’s the issue here, it’s the increased TV revenue deal that’s on place for next year. I don’t know the exact figures, but if we go down we’ll lose out on hundreds of thousands. Also add in to that, the potential for 2 visits from a rejuvenated Dundee United and all of a sudden it’s looking almost imperative we stay in the league. Not because we need the money, but because if we’re to actually try to push on again and look up the league, these are the things that add just that little more into our budget and bring in an extra player or two.

Either way, unless it’s 250k plus there’s no way saints will be entertaining letting him go. We’ve had players sign deals elsewhere and play some of their best football, so there’s no worries that he’d be a negative influence he’s not that sort. Plus I don’t think any saints fan would begrudge him a move to a better team with a high wage, we’re not that sort.

As I say, still not convinced he won’t actually sign a new deal at saints, but if he doesn’t then he won’t be going anywhere, especially the longer this drags on.

[Kyle]

5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

What is the prize money difference between each place in the bottom 6? Around £100k or so? Add on the television revenue for next season.

Unless you're getting decent enough cash to fill the gaps you have in other places (even short term loans) then it's not worthwhile selling him,. Especially to Hearts.

Aberdeen fans seem to understand this better than some Saints fans I see on social medial, and it would be to their benefit if we did sell for a shitey 5 figure sum.

Decent cash and/or quality players iin return and Saints should talk. Otherwise, nut.

[DukDukGoose]

6 minutes ago, Widge said:

 

Yeah it’s not the prize money that’s the issue here, it’s the increased TV revenue deal that’s on place for next year. I don’t know the exact figures, but if we go down we’ll lose out on hundreds of thousands. Also add in to that, the potential for 2 visits from a rejuvenated Dundee United and all of a sudden it’s looking almost imperative we stay in the league. Not because we need the money, but because if we’re to actually try to push on again and look up the league, these are the things that add just that little more into our budget and bring in an extra player or two.

Either way, unless it’s 250k plus there’s no way saints will be entertaining letting him go. We’ve had players sign deals elsewhere and play some of their best football, so there’s no worries that he’d be a negative influence he’s not that sort. Plus I don’t think any saints fan would begrudge him a move to a better team with a high wage, we’re not that sort.

As I say, still not convinced he won’t actually sign a new deal at saints, but if he doesn’t then he won’t be going anywhere, especially the longer this drags on.

 

If we're going to get him then I'd want him now but he isn't worth bursting the bank for at this point. It's good to have him in and get up to speed quickly with next season in mind (like Devlin) and it would be a total nightmare if he gets an injury playing for St Johnstone.

On the flip side there's probably more chance of him playing 90 minutes every week at St Johnstone at the moment as we seem to be changing our set up every couple of weeks.

5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Aberdeen fans seem to understand this better than some Saints fans I see on social medial, and it would be to their benefit if we did sell for a shitey 5 figure sum.

Decent cash and/or quality players iin return and Saints should talk. Otherwise, nut.

We went through similar with Cardiff and Jonny Hayes and he wasn't even out of contract. They offered us several deals valued around £600k but just structured differently. Finishing second rather than third is worth around £1m. We also got to the cup final that year. He left in the summer to go to Celtic for an offer of around the same and Christie on loan. Keeping him was huge as we'd never have replaced him with however much of the £600k McInnes would have been allowed to spend.

[Kyle]

4 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If we're going to get him then I'd want him now but he isn't worth bursting the bank for at this point. It's good to have him in and get up to speed quickly with next season in mind (like Devlin) and it would be a total nightmare if he gets an injury playing for St Johnstone.

On the flip side there's probably more chance of him playing 90 minutes every week at St Johnstone at the moment as we seem to be changing our set up every couple of weeks.

We went through similar with Cardiff and Jonny Hayes and he wasn't even out of contract. They offered us several deals valued around £600k but just structured differently. Finishing second rather than third is worth around £1m. We also got to the cup final that year. He left in the summer to go to Celtic for an offer of around the same and Christie on loan. Keeping him was huge as we'd never have replaced him with however much of the £600k McInnes would have been allowed to spend.

Exactly. It seems Aberdeen fans are in fact my spirit animal. Matty Kennedy staying could be the difference between us staying up and going down. If we lose his goals and assists, we don't have anyone we can rely on to pick up the slack. If we go down we'll be talking about losing a similar amount to what you guys would've done if you finished 3rd. It's really not worth the risk of the short term boost of £50k or whatever. It might negate the need to dump others from the squad that we seem to be having trouble shifting, but it's just about the worst possible scenario for us.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Kyle

[capt_oats]

18 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Aberdeen fans seem to understand this better than some Saints fans I see on social medial, and it would be to their benefit if we did sell for a shitey 5 figure sum.

Decent cash and/or quality players iin return and Saints should talk. Otherwise, nut.

 

9 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

We went through similar with Cardiff and Jonny Hayes and he wasn't even out of contract. They offered us several deals valued around £600k but just structured differently. Finishing second rather than third is worth around £1m. We also got to the cup final that year. He left in the summer to go to Celtic for an offer of around the same and Christie on loan. Keeping him was huge as we'd never have replaced him with however much of the £600k McInnes would have been allowed to spend.

This was largely our argument when Moult was in the final year of his deal and knocked back Aberdeen's offer of £350k in the summer (which rubbed Willie Miller and Richard Gordon the wrong way). Our position was that he had a certain value in the team and that - unless a team met that - we'd rather keep him and have him on the park until his contract expired than move him on for less.

In the end he went to Preston for £500k (having bodied Aberdeen out the League Cup) but that's the sort of thing that probably takes a lot of sorting out in advance and probably brings you round to the conversations from last week about the club actually sitting down with the player and his agent and making a decision to actively try and move him on.

It seems daft - on a Dundee/Glen Kamara level - to be completely reactive and just take a nominal amount simply because it's on offer. Even more so given Saints position.

Edited January 13, 2020 by capt_oats

[Dons_1988]

Just now, capt_oats said:

 

This was largely our argument when Moult was in the final year of his deal and knocked back Aberdeen's offer of £350k in the summer (which rubbed Willie Miller and Richard Gordon the wrong way). Our position was that he had a certain value in the team and that - unless a team met that - we'd rather keep him and have him on the park until his contract expired than move him on for less.

In the end he went to Preston for £500k (having bodied Aberdeen out the League Cup) but that's the sort of thing that probably takes a lot of sorting out in advance and probably brings you round to the conversations from last week about the club actually sitting down with the player and his agent and making a decision to actively try and move him on.

It seems daft - on a Dundee/Glen Kamara level - to be completely reactive and just take a nominal amount because it's on offer.

Yeah, that's it. And it's not rocket science.

You make an estimate of what a player is worth to keep him for 6 months based on prize money, avoiding relegation etc, then you set a sale price at a decent premium above that. If it comes on deadline day and you can't replace him then you increase that premium.

The idea that you should be grateful just to receive a nominal sum of money because you receive nothing in 6 months is simpleton thinking.

[DukDukGoose]

4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Exactly. It seems Aberdeen fans are in fact my spirit animal. Matty Kennedy staying could be the difference between us staying up and going down. If we lose his goals and assists, we don't have anyone we can rely on to pick up the slack. If we go down we'll be talking about losing a similar amount to what you guys would've done if you finished 3rd. It's really not worth the risk of the short term boost of £50k or whatever. It might negate the need to dump others from the squad that we seem to be having trouble shifting, but it's just about the worst possible scenario for us.

 

Exactly.

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

 

This was largely our argument when Moult was in the final year of his deal and knocked back Aberdeen's offer of £350k in the summer (which rubbed Willie Miller and Richard Gordon the wrong way). Our position was that he had a certain value in the team and that - unless a team met that - we'd rather keep him and have him on the park until his contract expired than move him on for less.

In the end he went to Preston for £500k (having bodied Aberdeen out the League Cup) but that's the sort of thing that probably takes a lot of sorting out in advance and probably brings you round to the conversations from last week about the club actually sitting down with the player and his agent and making a decision to actively try and move him on.

It seems daft - on a Dundee/Glen Kamara level - to be completely reactive and just take a nominal amount simply because it's on offer.

I wanted May over Moult but in hindsight I can see I was a mile off with that one. That deal ended up being worth at least a million to you in total.

Some of our fans complained that Hayes was sold to Celtic and should have been sold to Cardiff months before. Not a chance we'd have ahd the finish we did without him.

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah, that's it. And it's not rocket science.

You make an estimate of what a player is worth to keep him for 6 months based on prize money, avoiding relegation etc, then you set a sale price at a decent premium above that. If it comes on deadline day and you can't replace him then you increase that premium.

The idea that you should be grateful just to receive a nominal sum of money because you receive nothing in 6 months is simpleton thinking.

It's a fine line. I couldn't believe Bournemouth didn't sell Fraser because they couldn't replace his quality with the money he'd be sold for.

They're going to have to replace him for nothing this summer with no idea what league they'll be in. You'd expect a club in that league to have shortlist of potential targets as soon as the lad knocked back a new contract. St Johnstone probably been caught out by us approaching the player and themselves so early in the window.

[Dick Van Dyke]

Why are people talking about Kennedy like he’s Messi? He’s been a great player us but him leaving doesn’t automatically mean we’ll be relegated. Maybe not trying to force every move through Kennedy might benefit the rest of the team

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

It's a fine line. I couldn't believe Bournemouth didn't sell Fraser because they couldn't replace his quality with the money he'd be sold for.

They're going to have to replace him for nothing this summer with no idea what league they'll be in. You'd expect a club in that league to have shortlist of potential targets as soon as the lad knocked back a new contract. St Johnstone probably been caught out by us approaching the player and themselves so early in the window.

Seems like Bournemouth have gambled and lost. They've been absolute dog shit this season so no one is paying big money for Fraser now.

Surprised they were able to turn down the money talked about too. Now eating into the £50m we are due for Fraser, Mckenna and Cosgrove.

[Kyle]

15 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said:

Why are people talking about Kennedy like he’s Messi? He’s been a great player us but him leaving doesn’t automatically mean we’ll be relegated. Maybe not trying to force every move through Kennedy might benefit the rest of the team

I don't think wanting something close to his value to the team is 'talking about him like he's Messi' to be honest. 

[Dons_1988]

23 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I don't think wanting something close to his value to the team is 'talking about him like he's Messi' to be honest. 

I'd like to think Aberdeen will make a £50k January bid for Messi when his contract is running down.

[Kyle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51088416 

Aberdeen pre-contract 'close' but seems likely Kennedy will be with us untl the end of his contract. 

 

Edit: he confirms what we all knew anyway - no new signings until we move players on. We've also made a pre-contract offer to Shaun Rooney.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Kyle

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51088416 

Aberdeen pre-contract 'close' but seems likely Kennedy will be with us untl the end of his contract. 

We have no real immediate need and I'm fairly certain the two managers have a decent working relationship. It's maybe only really worth it if there was a sell on clause anyway.