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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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6 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

If we're signing Hemmings it will mean the May deal is off the table - he's going to be stuck at Aberdeen the way he is carrying on.

Cant blame May this time. He was offered a contract and came back to that, not his his fault the chairman doesnt have an ounce of integrity to honour his offer.

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8 hours ago, kingjoey said:

The Stevie May story over the past few weeks has been a lot of fun, particularly for the “I’m in the know, and he’s definitely coming” posters on here. However, on a serious note, if the Record story is true do any Saints fans think there is a real possibility that Tommy Wright will walk away from McDiarmid?

Wouldnt blame him, I'd be surprised if this was the only time Brown has fucked over a deal in this way.

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15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Cant blame May this time. He was offered a contract and came back to that, not his his fault the chairman doesnt have an ounce of integrity to honour his offer.

Honour what? The deal that was off the table?

May rashly thought he could squeeze Saints dry first time around, despite agreeing a deal. There was the failure of honour and integrity if you're looking for it.

A couple of weeks later it's clear that no other clubs are seriously interested in May. His market value is a lot lower than he thinks it is and maybe Brown belatedly recognises this. That's not a failure of integrity or honour. That's business.

I've no problem with dropping the offer to May. Where is see the failure to is the way we've spent five months failing to address a clear weakness in the team and over the summer we've become mesmerised by a player who hasn't had a good game for five years. Why haven't we cast out net wider? Why are clubs like Dundee ahead of us for Hemmings? 

Edited by Mr Heliums
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13 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

Honour what? The deal that was off the table?

May thought he could squeeze Saints dry first time around, despite agreeing a deal. It was a rash approach and it failed.

A couple of weeks later it's clear that no other clubs are seriously interested in May. His market value is a lot lower than he thinks it is and maybe Brown belatedly recognises this. That's not a failure of integrity or honour. That's business.

I've no problem with dropping the offer to May. Where is see the failure to me is the way we've spent five months failing to address a clear weakness in the team and over the summer we've become mesmerised by a player who hasn't had a good game for five years. Why haven't we cast out net wider? Why are clubs like Dundee ahead of us for Hemmings? 

We can be picky/snide/bargain if we have options. 

We dont. We have no list of alternative targets, because we dont identify them before the window opens. Nobody will ever convince me Saints waste money on things like scouting, and I completely believe what @steviemay17 says about us just waiting on agents offering us players. Offering to get Hemmings on loan, from a club desperate for cash, is nothing more than pathetic, that's why Dundee are getting him.

We've already begun the season and our strikers are Kane, Hendry and McMillan. We've now got three weeks to find a striker, sign them, and get them integrated. What sort of strikers do you think are getting offered to a bottom half Scottish side with three weeks of the window left?

We couldn't afford to miss out on May, for more reasons than what he wouldve brought to the pitch. The fact Brown seems oblivious to that is telling. The worry here is the club (Brown) never seems to learn lessons from things like this.

tl:dr Its not good business to weaken yourself, and piss off your customer base, for the sake of money, when you've far, far, more than that sitting in your bank account.

Edited by RandomGuy.
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I'm not disputing Saints' dire approach towards signings.

I was just suggesting that describing the chairman as lacking integrity and honour was wrong. 

But I believe we can afford to miss out on May because we'd be signing him for sentimental reasons. That's hardly an example of a good signing policy.

Edited by Mr Heliums
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2 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

I'm not disputing Saints' dire approach towards signings.

I was just suggesting that describing the chairman as lacking integrity and honour was wrong. 

But I believe we can afford to miss out on May because we'd be signing him for sentimental reasons alone. That's hardly an example of a good signing policy.

You think we'll sign anyone of May's quality?

Last player that rejected us was Declan Gallagher, our alternative signing was Wallace Duffy.

If that, monumental, drop off in quality happens with striker targets, then we'll be going through this season with Kane and Hendry as our strikers, as the signed striker will be miles off it, and McMillan has been completely ostracized.

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Honour what? The deal that was off the table? May rashly thought he could squeeze Saints dry first time around, despite agreeing a deal. There was the failure of honour and integrity if you're looking for it.

A couple of weeks later it's clear that no other clubs are seriously interested in May. His market value is a lot lower than he thinks it is and maybe Brown belatedly recognises this. That's not a failure of integrity or honour. That's business.

I've no problem with dropping the offer to May. Where is see the failure to is the way we've spent five months failing to address a clear weakness in the team and over the summer we've become mesmerised by a player who hasn't had a good game for five years. Why haven't we cast out net wider? Why are clubs like Dundee ahead of us for Hemmings? 

 

 

Stevie May doesn’t owe us anything. There’s no requirement for honour and integrity on his part. He is a contracted Aberdeen player and he has the option to stay there and earn a decent wage if he isn’t tempted by any other offers.

 

On the other hand, it has become increasingly apparent that Stevie May is our main target and we don’t exactly have a plethora of back-up options. Regardless of his recent performances, there’s no doubt that his signing would have given the whole club a lift and it’s incredibly unlikely that we’ll find anyone better or of a similar quality at this stage.

 

Steve Brown knew these were exceptional circumstances. He made a public statement, saying that he would go all-out to sign Stevie May. By all accounts, he initially made a decent contract offer so we all know the money is there and he was willing to spend it.

 

Stevie May and/or Rowan Vine probably messed up the negotiations on that occasion. But, by returning to the club and saying he’d now accept the initial offer, Stevie has clearly acknowledged any mistakes which may have been made. To come back with a lower counter-offer is not only extremely petty, disrespectful and naive in a business-sense, it is disrespectful to the Saints supporters who now know that we could afford Stevie May but won’t be seeing him in a Saints shirt due to our chairman playing silly games.

 

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11 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

No it wasn't,  it was a full international. Stop spouting pish please. 

Gallagher and Duffy are both able to play central and right.

Vihmann cannot.

TW also never once mentioned signing another CB until Duffy actually started playing games, then all of a sudden we're signing one.

Edited by RandomGuy.
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28 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

f**k up, Gallagher was earmarked as Joe's replacement, a first team player.  Duffy was a punt on a youngster to cover Aaron Comrie and hopefully in the centre.

Then that's even worse. We lost out on Gallagher in January, and didn't identify our second choice until mid-March, then didn't actually sign them until the end of July.

That's not good news.

27 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I have no sympathy whatsoever.

He and his agent have tried to play clubs off against one another - now the shoe's on the other foot he has no right to complain.

Maybe, either way, Saints have lost out here.

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If we've offered him reduced salary it's a bit off. 

If we've reduced contract length or included fm style relegation triggered percentage decreases /termination then all for it. 

Can't be paying May 3.5k in the championship after a season in which he fails to single handedly keep us up 

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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Then that's even worse. We lost out on Gallagher in January, and didn't identify our second choice until mid-March, then didn't actually sign them until the end of July.

That's not good news.

Maybe, either way, Saints have lost out here.

On your first point, who's to say there wasn't anyone in between? You don't have a fucking clue what goes on behind the scenes, just you keep coming up with your own theories,  then theories that dispel your original theories,  then theories to dispel them and so on....

Your second point, maybe Saints will, maybe they won't, time will tell but what I will say is if Stevie fucking May had did what he agreed to do we would've signed 2 international players in a week and everyone would have been excited,  HE didn't though, that tells me all I need to know about the wee mink from Newburgh. 

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