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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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3 hours ago, codfish said:


The cup win should’ve given more of a bounce IMO, so the winning team argument doesn’t really apply. 

 

It does though. 

Our board has probably been about the best in Scottish football in the way it runs a successful club within its means, but we missed the biggest opportunity in our history after the cup final. We didn't have season ticket info out til well into the summer, did no push whatsoever on the back of the cup win, and played the early part of the season without a recognised striker after May left after pre-season and Steve Maclean got a bad injury.

Despite all that, our average crowd went from 3806 to 4592.

The season we won the cup playing great football with Stevie May banging the goals in, the following season we did well in the league by being incredibly well organised, but very unexciting to watch and shitfesting our way to a lot of 1-0's.

Our average was back down the following season.

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3 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

Disagree with that – I think pricing must be a factor, although it isn't clear how big. The pay-at-the-gate proportion of the home crowd has plummeted in the past 20 years, maybe because gate prices have more than doubled in real terms in that time. Hard to get into a habit when it's costing £25 a shot. The shift also means you're less likely to get the fluctuations in attendance that saw such peaks. In 1996, sandwiched between gates of 9,000+ v Hearts and Dundee United was the home game against Hamilton, which was seen by 2,600.

Don't you think it's more perceived value for money rather than simply price?  I just think that if we were exciting to watch and winning every week, then people would find a way to be able to afford it.

I might be wrong.

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22 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

The season we won the cup playing great football with Stevie May banging the goals in, the following season we did well in the league by being incredibly well organised, but very unexciting to watch and shitfesting our way to a lot of 1-0's.

Our average was back down the following season.

Aye, the next season was an absolute slog, probably a record number of games involving less than 2 goals.

All the folk who mewl about Saints being shite, but who then came along after the Cup win, probably felt their opinions were justified and it simply entrenched their belief going to games is a waste of money.

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9 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Don't you think it's more perceived value for money rather than simply price?  I just think that if we were exciting to watch and winning every week, then people would find a way to be able to afford it.

I might be wrong.

You are absolutely right in all this Paulo. The cup win bounce was squandered, and it's all about value not price. I would say though that we could be playing exciting football and not getting the results. I think we made the decision some time ago that it was one or the other but not both (possibly a reasonable position given our budgets). 

I'm hopeful that TW is trying to build a more exciting team to watch and that this summer will see signings that continue that trend. 

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16 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Despite all that, our average crowd went from 3806 to 4592.

 

That season, we had 6K plus crowds vs Aberdeen, Dundee (x2), Celtic (x3) and over 7000 vs Dundee United, but that is largely due to healthy away supports. I'm not convinced there has been much fluctuation in terms of home support either pre or post cup win.

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6 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

it's all about value not price. 

I'm hopeful that TW is trying to build a more exciting team to watch and that this summer will see signings that continue that trend. 

If it's about value then price is at least a factor. If I don't make the commitment to buy a season ticket - which I haven't for the last few years as there were so many non-Saturday games - then it's pretty easy to forego a trip through from Edinburgh when it's going to cost around £50 cash a shot. Granted if there was a buzz about McDiarmid, the decision might be more difficult. But that's been a theoretical argument for years.

Remember too that TW tried to build a more exciting team last year.  Signing Wright, Swanson, O'Halloran and Watt over a few months signalled an ambition to play attractive football.  But, of matches I've seen, other than Dundee away we just haven't seen that on the pitch.

Edited by Mr Heliums
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2 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

If it's about value then price is at least a factor. If I don't make the commitment to buy a season ticket - which I haven't for the last few years as there were so many non-Saturday games - then it's pretty easy to forego a trip through from Edinburgh when it's going to cost around £50 cash a shot. Granted if there was a buzz about McDiarmid, the decision might be more difficult. But that's been a theoretical argument for years.

Remember too that TW tried to build a more exciting team last year.  Signing Wright, Swanson, O'Halloran and Watt over a few months signalled an ambition to play attractive football.  But, of matches I've seen, other than Dundee away we just haven't seen that on the pitch.

Price is the cost component of what is called 'the value equation'. People buy value, price is relative to how the individual perceives that value, which is again a component of what drives demand. Are we expensive? Depends on your individual view of value. 

Anyway not really the point. I would say that Tommy's hit rate of signings has not been too bad. Kennedy and Wright have really worked and MOH is really starting to kick on. It was billed as a transition year after all so a few mis-steps are to be expected. I've been to I think every home game and a big chunk of aways. I agree we are not a team with attacking flair but you can see that there's been progress. I think Tommy is going for evolution rather than revolution, which is sensible and very St Johnstone. We will build our sexy team of ballers in a very pragmatic and risk averse way... 

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Have to say I think games at McDiarmid Park this season have been far more entertaining than what we were getting for the couple of seasons prior.

Granted we had a horrendous run that went on far too long, but overall we have seen far more chances created and shots, and periods of decent passing play.  I think some are forgetting how we used to spend the whole game humping it in the air to Steven Maclean up front on his own.

It has been night and day for me.  Wright initially, but Kennedy from around October / November time, a big part in it.  But the whole team have tried to pass the ball far more in most games this season.

Edited by PauloPerth
Speeling mistake
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43 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Have to say I think games at McDiarmid Park this season have been far more entertaining than what we were getting for the couple of seasons prior.

Granted we had a horrendous run that went on far too long, but overall we have seen far more chances created and shots, and periods of decent passing play.  I think some are forgetting how we used to spend the whole game humping it in the air to Steven Maclean up front on his own.

It has been night and day for me.  Wright initially, but Kennedy from around October / November time, a big part in it.  But the whole team have tried to pass the ball far more in most games this season.

Would agree with all of that.

Just a pity we fell away after the break.

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58 minutes ago, akuram said:

Would agree with all of that.

Just a pity we fell away after the break.

Yep.  And we have to consider the competition. Can't think of any team this season that have wowed the crowds with liquid football, and there's been far worse cloggers than us this year (stares hard at Hearts, Accies, pre-Cosgrove Aberdeen, the unmentionables) .. actually pretty much all of them bar Celtic, sometimes and Rangers, sometimes.

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Happy 5th anniversary, everyone!

Here's an alternative  version of our cup song Fair Maid, put together by Saints fan Ben Freeman, which includes snippets of Liam McLeod's commentary from the 2014 Scottish Cup semi-final and final.

 

Hope you like it! If you do, it's available for free download at https://theshrugs1.bandcamp.com/releases

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How times have changed - now that would see you as the best supported team in Scotland outside the ‘city’ clubs.

Obviously reduced crowds isn’t a problem limited to St Johnstone, but the drop-off does seem pretty sharp when you consider the family pricing etc you guys offer - probably been done to death, but what do you reckon caused that?
There's probably many reasons, who knows. There was a real buzz about the place from the mid 90's - probably early 1996 onwards when we were playing some great stuff, regularly tonking teams in the First Division - and not just the fodder, decent sides at the time like Dundee, Falkirk, Partick, Morton were regularly skelped. Obviously promotion at a canter in 1997 helped crowds and a great start to life in the Premier League kept that going. After 99 it was all downhill, the football was murder. The prices weren't that great - no kids deals in those days - and I just think people got out of the habit. The current team do deserve a wee bit better but the club are so poor at marketing what they have, which is a shame. I'm always so surprised at the amount of folk who have no idea about the Family Stand deal.
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Cillian Sheridan has made a good career for himself abroad, so Watt can do the same. 

I see he was at the sponsors night yesterday evening, so clearly he's not as persona non grata as the usual Perth bullshit mill would have had you believe. 

Maybe we could sponsor a player... 

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Wright briefly covered off his summer plans in his pre-match interview today. He mentioned that he wants to bring the age of the squad down again this summer and priority number one is a 15 goals a season striker. Unless we are planning to release some of the older players from existing contracts (Anderson, Swanson and McMillan probably the likeliest candidates?) then it'll be a struggle for us to bring the age of the squad down that much on this season without looking at youngsters released from the likes of Rangers/Celtic and teams in England. I hope we don't go exclusively down that road as I don't think that's where we've been fruitful in the past. Unless of course he's going to let some players go and replace them with existing youngsters at Saints - Alston not being replaced to give Kyle McClean a clearer path to the first team as an example.

Hopefully the scout down south has a couple more gems for us. I believe it was the same person who was responsible for Tanser, Drey Wright  and possibly Matty Kennedy(?) so I'd be more than happy to take that guy's advice again on any players who fall into a similar category.

f**k knows where this elusive striker is coming from. Might be better off looking for 2 strikers capable of scoring 7 or 8 each.

 

Edited by Kyle
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