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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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23 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Have Motherwells crowds risen since they went full social media crazy?

They have "content" almost daily, have a young group of "ultras" etc. Been in two cup finals lately..

I genuinely don't think the crowds have risen at all.

This problem is not unique to Saints. Spending millions to put in pubs or spending every waking hour tweeting, isn't going to get fans to the ground. 

Main reasons people stop going are moving to a different city for their job, moving to go to Uni, or starting a family. All three are almost impossible to prevent, and three see people slowly lose interest in attending football full stop, and no matter what you won't get them back (until they move back/kids grow up).

We started with a small base and lose these type of people yearly, only way to combat it is to get the next generation to come before they reach these stages too. The club have a Junior club where players visit, have table football in the family stand with players going in there, offer the chance to be a mascot for free etc.

Like it or not, but spending time trying to attract folk over 30 isn't he priority. 

It's not quite the same thing as saying "our crowds have increased" but IIRC our season tickets were 4k this season, which is the highest they've been in years. Then again you might tag that on being a natural result of getting to two cup finals last year.

FWIW: our average crowd was almost exactly the same when we finished 3rd (with Rangers still in the league) in 11/12 (5946) as it was in 06/07 when we finished 10th under Malpas (5877). That kind of puts the idea that having a 'successful' team on the park bumps crowds into context.

Having said that, our average in 16/17 was apparently 4450. Last year (17/18) it was apparently 5687.

Edited by capt_oats
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1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

It's not quite the same thing as saying "our crowds have increased" but IIRC our season tickets were 4k this season, which is the highest they've been in years. Then again you might tag that on being a natural result of getting to two cup finals last year.

FWIW: our average crowd was almost exactly the same when we finished 3rd (with Rangers still in the league) in 11/12 (5946) as it was in 06/07 when we finished 10th under Malpas (5877). That kind of puts the idea that having a 'successful' team on the park bumps crowds.

Having said that, our average in 16/17 was apparently 4450. Last year (17/18) it was apparently 5687.

How do you lot advertise/sell season tickets?

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48 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

How do you lot advertise/sell season tickets?

We've recently started using an online platform for ST sales via Ticketmaster so as weird as it may sound there could have been a bit of a novelty factor in terms of the new platform driving early renewals.

Generally the 'campaign' is online driven across all social media.

Tbh Grant Russell who heads up our comms dept. did an episode of the MFC Podcast at the start of the season and details the whole approach to branding etc far better than I can. If you're particularly interested you should be able to give it a listen here: https://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2018-19-episode-4/

Here are a few news stories from the official site re: ST sales. The 'renew your season ticket now' link is the one that really sets out our stall.

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/05/09/renew-your-season-ticket-now/

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/05/30/strong-uptake-in-season-tickets/

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/06/18/season-ticket-sales-up-13/

Here's this year's trailer:

 

Edited by capt_oats
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It’s a very Perth thing.  Nothing in Perth is good enough for them, everything is in Perth shite, when in reality its simply not. 

Just you wait.  Regardless of what you think about brewdog, its clearly a successful ‘trendy’ business that is a bit of a coup for the City.  I give it a week and it will ‘not be as good as Dundee, Inverness, Edinburgh etc etc, Perth’s fucked up again’

Perth public simply do not support things on their doorstep

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7 minutes ago, Shaggy Jenkins said:

It’s a very Perth thing.  Nothing in Perth is good enough for them, everything is in Perth shite, when in reality its simply not. 

Just you wait.  Regardless of what you think about brewdog, its clearly a successful ‘trendy’ business that is a bit of a coup for the City.  I give it a week and it will ‘not be as good as Dundee, Inverness, Edinburgh etc etc, Perth’s fucked up again’

Perth public simply do not support things on their doorstep

Brewdog is shite, it's a shite chain selling shite drink for wankers. HTH.

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12 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

It was a slog. Aberdeen game was amazing, aye, but you've picked out six games from a 45 game season there, the vast majority of games are some of the worst I've ever witnessed. I vaguely remember a run of four or five games where we averaged one shot on target per match.

Was in September. 

2-0 loss to Dundee, 0 shots on target.

2-1 loss to ICT, 1 shot on target which was a penalty.

2-0  to United, 1 shot on target.

2-1 loss to St Mirren, 1 shot on target.

That's consecutive games.

It was dire stuff, and easily forgettable.

That's a poor month, not a "fucking dreadful season".  

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2 minutes ago, The Marly said:

That's a poor month, not a "fucking dreadful season".  

I highlighted that month as an example, there were plenty of games that went the same route as far as I can remember.

O'Halloran and Graham both had wee purple patches where they won us games on their own.

 

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We've recently started using an online platform for ST sales via Ticketmaster so as weird as it may sound there could have been a bit of a novelty factor in terms of the new platform driving early renewals.
Generally the 'campaign' is online driven across all social media.
Tbh Grant Russell who heads up our comms dept. did an episode of the MFC Podcast at the start of the season and details the whole approach to branding etc far better than I can. If you're particularly interested you should be able to give it a listen here: https://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2018-19-episode-4/
Here are a few news stories from the official site re: ST sales. The 'renew your season ticket now' link is the one that really sets out our stall.
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/05/09/renew-your-season-ticket-now/
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/05/30/strong-uptake-in-season-tickets/
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2018/06/18/season-ticket-sales-up-13/
Here's this year's trailer:
 

Thanks for taking the time to post this.
I’ll have a look at it later on :)
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Random has a point but it was clumsily put.

 

The season after the cup win was undoubtedly good given where we ended up.

 

But the entertainment was pretty much zero with a bit of a dour feeling about the place.

 

The team lost its swagger with the loss of May and Brown was almost making a stubborn point, " We've won a cup and got some prize money? The fans will expect some spending? I'm in charge and I'll show them!"

Rumors about TW being talked out of resignation and players in the paper complaining about the lack of signings etc. 

There were staff at McD complaining about how the cup win was a massive missed opportunity.

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We had Swanson in the second half of that season and (QOS cup-tie aside) he was brilliant and raised the entertainment value.  We're St Johnstone and play in the SPFL where giant centre-backs are allowed to pull, push and kick entertainers all over the park.  We never have and never will play like Barcelona.

Random said people citing the price as a "shite excuse" - it's not nearly such a shite excuse as using the season after the cup win as a reason for not attending four years later.

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9 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

 

 

I agree with this. It was always fairly dull in terms of lack of pubs/ cafes around, but now they have built that road, cut all the trees down and are developing the area across the bypass, it's a horrible busy part of town. The stadium is like an island with cars surrounding it.  Although not a lot to do round about McDiarmid, it used to at least feel a welcoming place with good views out to the west, but now thats completely gone and its like one of those new grounds in an industrial park.  (This is not really relevant to the lack of crowd chat, just a general observation).

For the players having to train at the back of the East Stand, it must feel like they're in a zoo with all the traffic passing by staring at them. I hope the club re-plant loads of trees round the site to enclose it a bit.

 

At the back of the farm on the hill above the training pitches, there's a decent sized bit of ground that's all overgrown with bushes etc, that I thought would be a good location for the club to attempt to buy and develop as a supporters area. Nothing too fancy, just a covered area and places for supporters to sit; pop up food/ coffee/ beer stalls. Just to provide something in the area for pre-match that didn't have to make money through the week but the club would benefit from on a matchday.

What like a kind of rustic outdoors Muirton Suite on a hill ??

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I've been a long time reader of the forum, but this conversation has prompted me to actually reply to what's been said. I was a season ticket holder from 2003 until 2011. There were a number of reasons I stopped going.

Amateur and Junior football took over on a Saturday, someone further up had said "choose to play on a different day".  That option doesn't exist in Perth with amateur games all kicking off at 2PM and no Sunday football. In Dundee you at least have the choice of Saturday morning and Sunday morning (although even that is on the decline). This is maybe a problem for the SFA to sort out, Junior games have to be played at the same time they are becoming part of the league structure. Amateur games though don't. If you make them early kick offs on a Saturday, Junior teams might get the opportunity to scout some players and these players might want to attend a game later too.  

There was also a noticeable change in the way Saints were playing from the first division into the premier league. That is complete understandable given the quality of the opponent, but, it still doesn't make it anymore enjoyable to watch. On top of that the price increase with moving divisions. I went to University in 2011 and had to work a part time job at the same time, after I'd quit playing football there was the option to go back and watch. But why, as a student in Dundee, would I spend money coming through to Perth to watch Saints and pay £20 (I think that was the price at the time) or more? United and Dundee charge students £10. The club won't lose any money by making that price cut if anything they might get a few more students along to games. All in all though, that won't solve the problem. 

The reasons I've given so far can be brushed off and ignored and to be honest that's fair enough they are selfish reasons. The main problem as I see it is that the club are relying on fans to come to the games based on a love of the game or a love of the club. That's not enough in my opinion. The atmosphere does need to be sorted out (I've been to Queens Park games at Hampden with more atmosphere ) and the only way that can happen, in my opinion, is to make the whole day experience of the game one that you can't resist. 

We don't need to buy a new plot of ground, set up a fanzone on the astro pitch. Speak to Stagecoach about setting up buses that run for free from the city centre to the ground and in return give them more sponsorship. Actually create a small highlights package from the game, it doesn't need to be like other clubs with 10 minutes of gameplay but even a top 5 or 10 moments in the game and that could be anything from a few big tackles to the 20 pass bit of play mentioned at the Hamilton game. 

It's all well and good saying Saints are playing better football but where is the evidence for the fans who don't attend on a match day. You certainly don't see it in the 4 minutes of highlights the BBC put together and anecdotal evidence doesn't really cut it for me. The number of times I've been tempted back (getting tickets for a birthday or the like) and then the game has been dreadful. For me personally the game against Trakai could have been a tipping point. I hadn't been to a game in a while I was excited. That match at McDiarmid was demoralising and I think a missed opportunity to entice fans back. 

Just to add in the time from when I stopped being a season ticket holder to now, I received one letter asking me to return and that was the season after. Basically, it makes you feel like the club don't care and if they don't then why should I give them money. 

The placement of McDiarmid is nothing new for football clubs all over the world, the difference, at least from when I've been to German games, is that Saints make no effort to get fans from the centre to the ground.  There is no engagement with the fan base on any level, get into the city centre and surrounding areas and create some competitions to win tickets to games (guess where Brogan the Beagle is and win a ticket). Get some social media content of the players outwith a pre or post match interview. Take a leaf out of the National teams social media efforts, aye the team aren't performing well but at least you get to see some of the banter between the players. Get a stall in the city centre on matchdays to encourage people to head to the game. Market the club more effectively, in the last five years we are the most successful club in the area and we are playing in a top league full of international players. If the SPFL won't market the league then we should do it ourselves, the Scottish Premiership is still "proper football" big tackles, fast paced, passion and rivalry. 

There is going to be a struggle when the majority of people are working Monday to Friday and have to decide if they want to spend one of their two days off at the football for most of the day. The club need to do much more than it is now and that is completely from a marketing perspective rather than cutting prices which won't work. 

  

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I remember being at Falkirk on the day Rhodes was going for five and I'm sure we lost a very early goal. It was obviously a huge deal at the time because the record was so long established.
My abiding memory of Rhodes (did he ever get his England cap) was that he couldn't kick the ball over the halfway line.
At McD was it not? Paul McGrillen scored a header in Alex Tottens first game of his second spell.
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4 hours ago, Shaggy Jenkins said:

It’s a very Perth thing.  Nothing in Perth is good enough for them, everything is in Perth shite, when in reality its simply not. 

Just you wait.  Regardless of what you think about brewdog, its clearly a successful ‘trendy’ business that is a bit of a coup for the City.  I give it a week and it will ‘not be as good as Dundee, Inverness, Edinburgh etc etc, Perth’s fucked up again’

Perth public simply do not support things on their doorstep

Actually, I think this is a big part of the problem. Perth folk have a really bizarre lack of pride in the local community, and that has a big impact on Saints. I'm pretty sure if we opened the gates for free one saturday, we'd still struggle to get any more than 4000. Knowing the Perth public, they'd probably just moan about it.

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17 minutes ago, fuzzy_logic said:

Actually, I think this is a big part of the problem. Perth folk have a really bizarre lack of pride in the local community, and that has a big impact on Saints. I'm pretty sure if we opened the gates for free one saturday, we'd still struggle to get any more than 4000. Knowing the Perth public, they'd probably just moan about it.

Public outrage contributing to Ann Summers being closed down all those years ago sums Perth up quite nicely.

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There’s nothing to do around McDiarmid and the area doesn’t inspire. It’s at least a 40 minute walk from the city centre and there’s no pubs to drop into along the way. Bit of pilgrimage really.
Standard Scottish response. Throw a pub in that'll keep the simple folks happy. Maybe just maybe the decline in Scottish football attendances is more to do with people having alternatives to "its the weekend, let's get drunk"?
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1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:
On 07/11/2018 at 08:15, Radford said:
I remember being at Falkirk on the day Rhodes was going for five and I'm sure we lost a very early goal. It was obviously a huge deal at the time because the record was so long established.
My abiding memory of Rhodes (did he ever get his England cap) was that he couldn't kick the ball over the halfway line.

At McD was it not? Paul McGrillen scored a header in Alex Tottens first game of his second spell.

That was Alan Main's clean sheet record in 1996/97. He didn't lose a league goal between a 2-0 defeat at Brockville in mid-October (I think the dreadful Peter Fyhr played) and that McGrillen header on Boxing Day. He embarrassing conceded 2 goals against Dundee in his next game; fortunately we scored 7 of our own!

Rhodes was in 1992/93 and his run of 4 games ended in a 2-2 draw at Brockville.

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