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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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Scunnered. Absolutely dreadful again yesterday.

How he can keep thinking this formation is the answer.

What Is that now, 12 games from 77 where we have scored more than one goal.

Everyone sees it bar the one who is paid to see it. Can see no points and no goals for a few weeks yet. 

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Have to say I think I'm done until Davidson goes. There's always an interesting debate about how loyal fans should be alongside whether clubs like Saints should be prioritizing entertainment or success, but under this regime we're not going to get either. I thought I was maybe being too harsh on the manager and maybe the players were the issue, so I sat right behind the dugout to see if there was anything worth getting excited about, but just watching CD for most of the game has made it clear why we have the issues that we do.
I'll include Macca in this as well as the pair stand and shout at the players all game long, there was not a single act of trying to encourage any kind of attacking play. CD stands and yells at Bair or Murphy over who they should be tracking back every time we don't have the ball (which is 80% of the time) while Macca was just bawling "shape" anytime a player tried to venture forward to press. The common complaint is a lack of energy from the players, but It's clear that they just have no freedom to do anything proactive and are continually on the receiving end of reinforcement about the shape being the priority, so of course they don't break from it.
I can also see CD's talk of "flexibility" involves shifting the shape from a back five with a 3 and a 2 in front to a back five with a 2 and then a three in front, that back five will never change. He spent most of the first half trying to move Carey and Murphy into different positions, but they have no pace and we can't string two passes together.
The reaction to conceding the goal was telling, there was nothing from the bench, no move to chuck a defender up front to act as a focal point, just total acceptance of the defeat. It's dangerous to get into looking at Tommy Wright's time through rose-tinted glasses, but from memory - he and his side wouldn't let a red card or a setback define the game, they would adapt and give everything to overcome it. Under CD, it's like he's just looking for the easy way out of finding his scapegoat for the day and that's that.
Personally I found the Muzz red card embarrassing, especially with the fans singing his name for making such a bone-headed decision and tackle that gives the ref the decision to make. Sure we can blame the ref, but if you give them a decision to make then the blame is with you, not with them for making it. Muzz spent the entire first half complaining to CD and Macca that they were getting overrun, clearly his frustration and lack of discipline led to that red card. Sadly that's far from an isolated incident within the entire squad and points to a complete lack of cohesiveness and responsibility with the "senior" players in the squad who also need to take a proper look at themselves.
As for any kind of attacking plan, I can't really see what it was. Macca spent the entire game bollocking Bair for not being strong enough, it's potentially true, but all he really had were high aimless clearances to try and bring under control so not really sure what they wanted from him. He does clearly have some physicality, he reminds me of Matty Willock when he first arrived in that he has a lot of tools but just no idea how to apply them effectively against the opposition. I know we need him to be good, I would say both of these things are true - He's not quite ready or good enough to be our main striker this year, but he's also completely hamstrung by the system he's played in too.
I realised after the red card just how disillusioned I am as a fan just now. Once Muzz was sent off we all knew that was it. There were no efforts to win the game, it was just to play for a point - I paid £25 to watch my team essentially set up where the best case scenario was that they would time waste enough that nothing would happen and it would end 0-0. Where is the excitement in this? Who can actually look at this and be proud? I left McD yesterday yet again asking why I come and watch it. I'm 30 now, Saints have been something huge in my life, something to focus on when times are hard and something that I'm proud to be a part of. I love my team, but we have a manager who's sucked every single ounce of joy from what is supposed to be the beautiful game. 
Saints aren't what we used to be. We rarely played teams off the park, but we made it hard, we fought and we still tried to win games despite a mismatch in resources and often quality. Under CD all we do now is exist, we make up the numbers and just allow other teams to have their way with us, there is no joy or excitement.  

What you write here echo’s my feelings also. The way we play has taken all the enjoyment out of going knowing when we lose a goal we are beat.
A question the management need to answer is how can Livi find a striker like Nouble?
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17 minutes ago, Broughty said:


What you write here echo’s my feelings also. The way we play has taken all the enjoyment out of going knowing when we lose a goal we are beat.
A question the management need to answer is how can Livi find a striker like Nouble?

Because they probably use more than just Martindale's mates to get players in.

Or method seems to be waiting for an agent to offer us a player. Gary fucking Rowett or agents that used to play for Saints.

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For the first time since I started supporting Saints (more than 20 years ago), I didn't keep track of yesterday's match. Later that evening, I checked the final result and I felt nothing apart from 'Oh well, maybe we're one step closer to getting rid of him.' I never thought I could feel so disconnected to the club I love.

It's clear to anyone who has been paying attention that Callum Davidson will never salvage this situation. We might get a decent result here and there which buys him a bit more undeserved time, but ultimately we'll finish in the bottom two (at best) unless we punt him. He is a terrible manager. And quite frankly, he treats this club with more and more contempt every day that he chooses to stay in the job instead of showing a bit of integrity and self-respect. His match tactics remain consistently dreadful, and his transfer policy solely involves desperately attempting to claw back his credibility by replacing his unsuccessful signings with more unsuccessful signings. What he has done to this squad, after so much time and effort has gone into it, is actually disrespectful. 

On a sidenote, I was at the Waterstones' book signing a few months ago. Apart from the odd occasion when someone worked up the courage to say something to this great double-winning coach, the man didn't even look up from the books he was signing. I had never seen anything like it from a previous Saints manager, nor from the majority of Saints players. Thank god he had the very friendly Liam Gordon sitting alongside him. This probably seems irrelevant in the wider scale of things, but it's apparent that he possesses no people skills whatsoever. This is further backed up by his terrible media interviews and embarrassing touchline antics. When someone like this guy loses the respect of his players, there is no chance he's getting it back. 

 

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Watching hibs yesterday another team that’s figured out how to play us al they did was play their no6 on the hole behind Blair and play though us simple!! It’s the lack of a plan b that gets me I can understand wanting to stick with a system but you have to know that eventually someone will figure it out and you should evolve we don’t seem to have understood that simple  fact  out 

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15 minutes ago, Bankfoot Saints said:

Watching hibs yesterday another team that’s figured out how to play us al they did was play their no6 on the hole behind Blair and play though us simple!! It’s the lack of a plan b that gets me I can understand wanting to stick with a system but you have to know that eventually someone will figure it out and you should evolve we don’t seem to have understood that simple  fact  out 

Aye but in Callum Davidsons own words "you've never played the game professionally, what would you know".

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Just to say that @steviemay17’s post was excellent and summed it up for me.

The issues have been apparent for months. The lack of attacking impetus has been obvious for the entirety of last season. Nothing has changed in terms of formation and personnel. It has to now.

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1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

Aye but in Callum Davidsons own words "you've never played the game professionally, what would you know".

Maybe not but if I can spot what the opposition are doing why does it take a professional so long to spot and change what we are doing ? 

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2 hours ago, Broughty said:


What you write here echo’s my feelings also. The way we play has taken all the enjoyment out of going knowing when we lose a goal we are beat.
A question the management need to answer is how can Livi find a striker like Nouble?

He's not a striker though, we play him on the wing. He only played up front against Rangers as we swap our system around. He plays out of position in big games to use his physicality and get us up the park.

We found him because when JET left, he recommended him as he knows his brother. He said that he felt that Nouble would do a job and was the profile of player we look for.

He's previously said as well that he doesn't like playing up front and prefers to be on the wing. You'd also be forgiven for not knowing that yesterday was his first goal for us :D 

Edited by ATLIS
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2 hours ago, The Saintee said:

Because they probably use more than just Martindale's mates to get players in.

Or method seems to be waiting for an agent to offer us a player. Gary fucking Rowett or agents that used to play for Saints.

Usually for other recruitment we use a stats based system, from League 1 to now we've done a moneyball of sorts. However like I mentioned in my post above it was actually just JET recommending him :D 

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In a similar vein to the posts above @The Real Saints and @steviemay17, my enthusiasm for Saints is at an all time low, thanks to the current management.

I've been going to Saints games for 30 years, but living in the Glasgow area and having a young family means I dont get to as many games as I used to.

My eldest is now about the age I was when I went to my first game and showing a real interest in football. I've been looking forward to him reaching that stage so I can take him to McDiarmid and spend time with him the way I have with my dad over the years. We were even passing Perth on Saturday lunchtime travelling back from a holiday and although it wouldnt really have worked logistically I could have made it work to take him. A few days before the game though realised I didn't want to, as I knew what an insipid performance we would put in, with no excitement, no real intent to win, and would probably lose badly. I was worried he wouldn't want to go back, would show more interest in the local teams and might never follow Saints. It was a sad moment of realisation for me and a demonstration of the damage the manger is doing to our club.

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i haven’t yet read the article, but surprised to see Nicholson with a critical comment.

Edited by mizfit
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I think up to now, most contributions on here have been more analytical, identifying perceived problems. Maybe a bit of frustration or even anger in there. 

Last few pages have been different though, it's far more heartfelt in the aftermath of Saturday, as we realise we've all been lied to about how things were going to be different. 

It can't be that a professional coach/manager can't come up with something else, so it has to be arrogance and part of that must stem from the fact he believes he's untouchable. 

People have complained about it getting personal when people have attacked Davidson but he's the one insulting all of us now.

And the boardroom doesn't even fiddle whilst McDiarmid burns, as that would mean there was at least something they cared about...

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