Jump to content

Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Aufc said:

I know it easy for me (and fellow other fans) to make comment with the following when it is not your own team. However, I find it funny with the talk of st johnstone wanting rid of CD. Fans are quick to moan about players and managers not showing any loyalty. Yet are revolting against a manager who won their team a cup double just last season.

The thing some people seem to miss: yes, the cup double was a truly extraordinary event, but so is everything the happened after it. 

We're one game away from beating the club record for losses in a row. We were founded in 1884. That isn't just a bad run of form, it's an extraordinarily bad run of form. 

We sold two of the best players we've produced in the last decade on deadline day (ie, we gave ourselves no time to replace them). To make matters worse, we sold our best player for a lot less than he's worth and when we were under no pressure to sell him. That wasn't just a bad decision, it was an extraordinarily bad decision.

We were the cup holders and failed to defend our title against a side three leagues below us. That isn't just a bad outcome, it's an extraordinarily bad outcome. 

I say all of this as someone who's on the fence about whether Davidson should be fired, or at the very least disagrees with some of the reasons people cite for why Davidson should be fired. 

Edited by Sainthearted
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Yes 8-10 goals out of Kane is a big over-estimate, but that's one wee detail in an post otherwise full of a lot of fair points by sainthearted.

It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Spoony must contribute close to that number of goals a season, whether it be by scoring, assists or some involvement in the build up.

We have failed to replace any of our best three players from last season. We're now without arguably our fourth best for a period of time in Rooney.

But take all the surrounding details away, and you're still left with three centre backs spending most of the game passing the ball sideways between each other fairly unopposed before launching a long diagonal with little success coming from it.

Picking a team, training them and setting tactics are all part of it, but the biggest challenge is coaching during the game. Be able to analyse what is happening and make the subtle, or major, adjustments to affect the game in your favour.

Kelty figured us out well. They let our centre backs have it, only using energy on a press occasionally when it was appropriate. Sit back and basically say what have you got? to the centre backs, who didn't want to drive forward at all.

When it was obvious this was a waste of a player back there for us, it should have been changed at HT.

 

11 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

It was a decent point until this bit, which is where you completely lost me.

We had Wotherspoon last season, and a team full to the brim of confidence, and scored less goals at home in the top division than anyone else in the entirety of time. The creative/goalscoring issue isn't new and isn't because Wotherspoon is injured, it was present last season too.

Just my opinion, but Kane obviously scored eight goals across all competitions last season, so I don't think it's a completely unrealistic expectation. Also, many of his appearances were as a lone forward or from the bench. I think he'd score more goals as part of a front two and with two good playmakers behind him (either on the flanks or in the middle of the park).

Granted, he was part of an exceptional team last season, but McCann, Kerr, Wotherspoon and Clark are a big part of what made that team exceptional. McCann is a brilliant player, his work ethic, distribution and ball winning/retention are all fantastic, but I wouldn't expect him to lead the table for assists come the end of a season. 

If we solve the creativity issue I think our attacking options are of a reasonable enough standard to solve (well, abate or improve) the goalscoring issue. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing some people seem to miss: yes, the cup double was a truly extraordinary event, but so is everything the happened after it. 
We're one game away from beating the club record for losses in a row. We were founded in 1884. That isn't just a bad run of form, it's an extraordinarily bad run of form. 
We sold two of the best players we've produced in the last decade on deadline day (ie, we gave ourselves no time to replace them). To make matters worse, we sold our best player for a lot less than he's worth and when we were under no pressure to sell him. That wasn't just a bad decision, it was an extraordinarily bad decision.
We were the cup holders and failed to defend our title against a side three leagues below us. That isn't just a bad outcome, it's an extraordinarily bad outcome. 
I say all of this as someone who's on the fence about whether Davidson should be fired, or at the very least disagrees with some of the reasons people cite for why Davidson should be fired. 

The selling of the twi players. Would that have been Davidson’s choice? Surely if they were going to sell them, they don’t wait until the end of the transfer window? Didn’t leave him much time to replace them.

My personal view is that he should possibly get the window to try fix the squad as the previous window obviously saw the two players sold at the last minute. Although I don’t think it matters too much as sure he could still sign free transfers after the actual deadline. Certainly a tough one. If the players have stopped playing for him then definitely best to get rid as soon as possible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Aufc said:


The selling of the twi players. Would that have been Davidson’s choice? Surely if they were going to sell them, they don’t wait until the end of the transfer window? Didn’t leave him much time to replace them.

My personal view is that he should possibly get the window to try fix the squad as the previous window obviously saw the two players sold at the last minute. Although I don’t think it matters too much as sure he could still sign free transfers after the actual deadline. Certainly a tough one. If the players have stopped playing for him then definitely best to get rid as soon as possible.

I'd have agreed he should get until the end of the window to fix the squad, until he gave contracts to Crawford and McPherson. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Sainthearted said:

 

Just my opinion, but Kane obviously scored eight goals across all competitions last season, so I don't think it's a completely unrealistic expectation.

Sorry, I thought you were meaning 8-10 league goals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much been made of fact this has equalled the club record for defeats. That was set in 1975/76, which some will obviously remember for all the wrong reasons, but we actually had two runs of 10 defeats in that campaign, in the space of just 23 games... 

1687276322_Screenshot_20220124-0840262.thumb.jpg.bf421caf607c4cb6b31cf3f27778533b.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll tell you one thing, with Dundee fans all over our threads gloating, St Mirren kicking us while we're down with the MacPherson situation, the entire country ripping the piss on Twitter, I'd absolutely love it, LOVE IT, if we could avoid relegation this season. 

kevin-keegan-beat-them.gif.0f76350eb23f01e4fb5352c62beb35e0.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Aufc said:


The selling of the twi players. Would that have been Davidson’s choice? Surely if they were going to sell them, they don’t wait until the end of the transfer window? Didn’t leave him much time to replace them.

My personal view is that he should possibly get the window to try fix the squad as the previous window obviously saw the two players sold at the last minute. Although I don’t think it matters too much as sure he could still sign free transfers after the actual deadline. Certainly a tough one. If the players have stopped playing for him then definitely best to get rid as soon as possible.

The real problem isn’t selling those two players, that happens to managers all the time, you can only piss with the cock you have and CD isn’t playing to the current players strengths. We’ve lost 10 in a row and he’s started with wing backs and the 3 centre backs every one of those games. He’s completely unwilling to try anything different. Our current squad isn’t a bad one, we’ve still got the core of the cup winning squad but the manager is unwilling to adapt after losing some key players 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Aufc said:


The selling of the twi players. Would that have been Davidson’s choice? Surely if they were going to sell them, they don’t wait until the end of the transfer window? Didn’t leave him much time to replace them.

My personal view is that he should possibly get the window to try fix the squad as the previous window obviously saw the two players sold at the last minute. Although I don’t think it matters too much as sure he could still sign free transfers after the actual deadline. Certainly a tough one. If the players have stopped playing for him then definitely best to get rid as soon as possible.

I'm not sure. Steve Brown issued a statement directly after the transfer to clarify why the club accepted the offers (McCann wanted to leave and it was too much money to turn down). I'm inclined to lay the lion's share of blame at his feet, not Davidson's, which is why I said I disagree with some of the reasons people cite for dismissing Davidson. 

There was one thing in Brown's statement that made me question his version of events: "would we stand in the way of a player's development and prohibit him from being set up financially for life?". It's an extremely odd statement considering: 

  1. McCann is at the start of his career (he was 21 at the time), has plenty of time to make money and was inevitably going to leave anyway
  2. It wouldn't have taken much to persuade him to stay until January or the following summer and give us time to line up replacements

In other words, it sounded like a spurious rationale for what he recognises, in hindsight, was an extremely poor decision. I think he panicked once he saw seven figures and a deadline. I also think we could have sold him for £2M+ in Jan/June 2022. 

That said, despite the fact the club has seemingly gone out of its way to make Davidson's job difficult, established players have played one season too many and we've been unlucky with injuries, in my view Davidson has been tactically naive.

He's also signed substandard players, but I think that's due more to expediency, the difficulties we've created for ourselves and possibly the HoR than his incompetence as a manager (ie, we needed players, it's a lot harder to find players in the January window and even when we find players our form is likely to dissuade them from signing). 

If I had to distribute responsibility for how things have turned out, I'd say about 40% of it belongs at Davidson's feet. The remainder falls at the feet of the club and misfortune. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do we make of Jacob Butterfield? I’m still struggling to figure him out at this point. Some positive moments where he potentially looks like our best midfielder followed by periods where I don’t notice him or moments when he makes a slack pass resulting in danger. Maybe worth trying him in a more advanced position?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sainthearted said:

I'm not sure. Steve Brown issued a statement directly after the transfer to clarify why the club accepted the offers (McCann wanted to leave and it was too much money to turn down). I'm inclined to lay the lion's share of blame at his feet, not Davidson's, which is why I said I disagree with some of the reasons people cite for dismissing Davidson. 

There was one thing in Brown's statement that made me question his version of events: "would we stand in the way of a player's development and prohibit him from being set up financially for life?". It's an extremely odd statement considering: 

  1. McCann is at the start of his career (he was 21 at the time), has plenty of time to make money and was inevitably going to leave anyway
  2. It wouldn't have taken much to persuade him to stay until January or the following summer and give us time to line up replacements

In other words, it sounded like a spurious rationale for what he recognises, in hindsight, was an extremely poor decision. I think he panicked once he saw seven figures and a deadline. I also think we could have sold him for £2M+ in Jan/June 2022. 

That said, despite the fact the club has seemingly gone out of its way to make Davidson's job difficult, established players have played one season too many and we've been unlucky with injuries, in my view Davidson has been tactically naive.

He's also signed substandard players, but I think that's due more to expediency, the difficulties we've created for ourselves and possibly the HoR than his incompetence as a manager (ie, we needed players, it's a lot harder to find players in the January window and even when we find players our form is likely to dissuade them from signing). 

If I had to distribute responsibility for how things have turned out, I'd say about 40% of it belongs at Davidson's feet. The remainder falls at the feet of the club and misfortune. 

Davidson came out with a statement just after the chairman’s one which made it clear that he was equally responsible for the sales. They had a discussion and reached the same conclusion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Callum Hendry has been recalled from his loan spell at Killie by parent club St Johnstone.

The forward returns to Perth after scoring five goals in 15 appearances for Killie since arriving in October.

We thank Callum for all his efforts at Rugby Park and wish him all the very best for the future.

 

Didn't exactly set the heather on fire at RP.... not overly bothered he's recalled tbh.

 

Edited by C4mmy31
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'll tell you one thing, with Dundee fans all over our threads gloating, St Mirren kicking us while we're down with the MacPherson situation, the entire country ripping the piss on Twitter, I'd absolutely love it, LOVE IT, if we could avoid relegation this season. 

kevin-keegan-beat-them.gif.0f76350eb23f01e4fb5352c62beb35e0.gif

:lol:

Things are all going very Falkirk-y, getting precious thinking everyone is out to get St Johnstone. If St Johnstone avoid relegation, as I suspect will happen, everyone will simply move on to laughing at Dundee.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I thought he was very good for us when he played, in particular he had excellent feet and was good in tight spaces. Feel like Wright didn't give him enough chances after a blistering start.

Probably a fair summary, but his temperament is a big concern of mine. As was shown last year, head seems to go when things aren’t going his way. Surely can’t be as anonymous as Stevie May has been though…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...