Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Alert Mongoose]

11 hours ago, TommyDickFingers said:

The deleted tweet vid.

 

 

That should do well at Cannes next year. Terrific viewing.

[Valentino Bolognese]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Honestly I'm just bored of this need to blame everyone else apart from the main issue. Even Steven MacLean is getting it now for "not being able to coach strikers". Maybe our strikers don't score because they spent 90% of their fucking time chasing full backs down the park then 90% of their chances are coming from hopeless crosses into the box against CBs twice their size.

The manager could resolve many, many, issues by simply playing to his players strengths. The fact he's not is on him alone.

We're not disagreeing. The playing side is all on the manager, 100% agree. Radford's excellent post spells that out perfectly.

But you as much as anyone else often site the operational business factors as being a big part of our failure too, so it's no use ignoring that side of it. 

[The Marly]

26 minutes ago, mizfit said:

There is one thing I’m finding rather bemusing. It’s the talk of “count yourself lucky it’s not the 1980’s again”.

I wouldn't ever say that.  What I would say is that we have been in a much worse state than the current mess. Even if we go down I'm confident we would recover. 

[Derry Alli]

Fair enjoyed big Zanny Clarks "hawd me back" aggro when he could, quite easily, have sparked anyone he wanted. Swaggering up the stairs like he's a hard man. 

Gid c**t. Next Scotland squad, get him in. 

[The Marly]

20 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

He's better than Crawford, that's all I've got.

I'm better than Crawford. 

[mizfit]

I'm better than Crawford. 

Letham lost 6-1 to Blairgowrie yesterday. They’ve better midfielders.

[RandomGuy.]

It says it all that there's a genuine argument Crawford was our best player yesterday.

[weesainty]

Hopefully with yesterday’s debacle and the fans showing there anger and frustration that’ll hopefully get a good reaction on Wednesday from the players 

[Kelheart]

59 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Honestly I'm just bored of this need to blame everyone else apart from the main issue. Even Steven MacLean is getting it now for "not being able to coach strikers". Maybe our strikers don't score because they spent 90% of their fucking time chasing full backs down the park then 90% of their chances are coming from hopeless crosses into the box against CBs twice their size.

The manager could resolve many, many, issues by simply playing to his players strengths. The fact he's not is on him alone.

Thing I found yesterday was you kept lobbing a long or diagonal ball to your left winger who often had a bit space n time but did hee haw with it usually allowing Finlayson or Philp time to get back or win the 50/50 punt in the air , must’ve went for that option at least 20 times to no avail , when you had it on the deck and played through the middle you created more chances imo 

[Widge]

I held off from posting last night for a variety of reasons. Having stood there in the cold and the rain watching what was on the pitch my first thought was how little effort there was from the majority of the team and coaching staff. Davidson made a point of thanking the fans after the game and whilst the young lads were once again excellent, where I was, was anything but. I don’t think anyone in the saints end actually expected to win and that speaks for itself. 
 

I want him to turn it around, but he looks like a defeated man and if that’s the case then he needs to fess up to this or leave, as if he’s not part of the solution he’s most definitely part of the problem. I think unless a great escape happens I’m resigned to fighting it out for 11th at best, so to be there’s little point rushing to appoint a new manager if he goes, give it to McLean and Craig until the end of the season, who knows maybe they’ve got their own ideas on how things should go. 
 

I won’t lie, the scenes at the end were uncalled for to an extent, but that’s 6 months of frustrations boiling over. That set up shouldn’t be allowed in senior football, but credit to Liam Craig especially for showing true leadership qualities in the face of that. As for Zander getting angry, he’s clearly as hurt as the fans watching the insipid, scared, identity-less performances in front of him. I think it’s been touched on a million times, but we don’t have a squad full of bad players, there are some technically good footballers capable of performing, the issue is they’re not being set up to do so. I actually thought the likes of Gilmour and Butterfield were ok yesterday for the most part; however neither is creative so you’re then relying on Brown and a debutant left wing back. Brown can’t play that position and Gallacher looks decent whipping balls in the box, but he’s possibly another Tanser. I said this as I watched yesterday that Davidson’s subs only weakened us, I can’t remember a game he’s positively influenced in a long time. 
 

I didn’t want to see him go, I wanted him to turn it around and if he’s willing to admit he’s wrong and change things I think it could still be salvaged. I just don’t think he’ll do that and I don't think he’s got the fight left any more. I get the fans are angry with the lack of effort and crap formations, etc, as everyone has a right to be, but the reality is I think we all knew this day would come. The biggest problem with that, is it’s totally self inflicted for a number of reasons top to bottom. Instead of people at the club scrabbling and disagreeing with themselves, if ever there was a time to pull together and come up with new ideas it’s now, but I don’t see it happening.

The signing of McPherson sums it up. I don’t necessarily thing he’s a bad player, I think he’s got potential; however he should be coming in as a squad player at best. We’re going to need 3/4 midfielders next season irrespective of our division, but he’s not worth paying money for that’s for sure. 
 

I don’t want us to go down, but it won’t stop me supporting the team. I’ll never boo them or any of the players and staff, but that’s just me, I get why others do. I think if we are to go down, then the least the fans deserve is some fight and passion in the next 15 games, the players and management owe us that’s. If anyones not up for the fight then they can go as far as I’m concerned, high earners, seasoned pro’s or not. That is the unforgivable thing. 

[Center half]

6 hours ago, Torfason said:

If the story is true, you have offered him a PCA and we brought him back to squeeze a fee. I just hope it doesn't cost the lad a contract if your manager gets punted. 

It could be one of these trial scenarios where the wording is a bit ambiguous, If the wording in the rules/agreements say a New contract has to be offered to the player to allow a development fee to be paid, What would be the scenario if at 1 minute past midnight on the appropriate 6 month of existing contract was to end, A club starts to talk to the player offers him a PCA contract he signs all before the existing club has offered/had time t offer a new contract? It may be St Mirren hope now is to call him back to get some form payment! 

        

[Fife Saint]

Hang on, is there a scenario where we actually need to pay a development fee to St Mirren for MacPherson?

Edited January 23, 2022 by Fife Saint

[tree house tam]

14 minutes ago, Fife Saint said:

Hang on, is there a scenario where we actually need to pay to a development fee to St Mirren for MacPherson?

Yes.

[Mr Heliums]

18 minutes ago, Widge said:

I didn’t want to see him go, I wanted him to turn it around and if he’s willing to admit he’s wrong and change things I think it could still be salvaged. I just don’t think he’ll do that and I don't think he’s got the fight left any more.

This is how a lot of fans feel. I wanted him months ago to step back, admit things weren't working, that he'd made errors - and then try something different. But he's persisted with the same setup, brought in players who everybody can see aren't good enough, blamed individuals he clearly doesn't like, and only grudgingly accepted responsibility, while still saying players aren't doing what they're told. He's a poor communicator at the best of times, but we deserve some explanation.

I think fans would be more understanding if he was honest, open and contrite. And our performances would benefit. But his stubbornness is building up resentment which is now boiling over into toxicity. Almost impossible to unite players and fans after that.

[Robert Forbes]

14 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

TBF I think you'll be fine. Not sure how to say this without it just sounding salty but they didn't even look Championship level until they went a goal ahead and we lost all shape. 

That's because Kelty aren't Championship level! It's just as well as most Championship sides would also have beaten St. Johnstone yesterday.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

We're not disagreeing. The playing side is all on the manager, 100% agree. Radford's excellent post spells that out perfectly.

But you as much as anyone else often site the operational business factors as being a big part of our failure too, so it's no use ignoring that side of it. 

There's been some long running issues behind the management for a long time, and while I think they've tried to address some of those issues they've still not got it worked out. We're still years behind others behind the scenes and I worry relegation will stunt that growth.

I just don't think the issues we have this season are down to this, to me almost all of it is falling at the door of a stubborn manager unable to change.

I think, and have done for a while now, that relegation is sealed. Seen nothing about this manager and squad to suggest they can respond positively to body blows. To me we start identifying who we think can both mount a title challenge next season and also fit into the more modern structure we're trying to build behind the scenes. Davidson doesn't fit either of those for me.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Robert Forbes said:

That's because Kelty aren't Championship level! It's just as well as most Championship sides would also have beaten St. Johnstone yesterday.

Well yeah, I wasn't saying it to insult Kelty tbh, and wasn't sure how to word it.

St Mirren are a competent top flight side with an idea of how to break sides down, so I think they'll beat Kelty comfortably if your performance yesterday is matched.

You more than deserved to beat us and it shouldve been more by the end.

[Robert Forbes]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Well yeah, I wasn't saying it to insult Kelty tbh, and wasn't sure how to word it.

St Mirren are a competent top flight side with an idea of how to break sides down, so I think they'll beat Kelty comfortably if your performance yesterday is matched.

You more than deserved to beat us and it shouldve been more by the end.

I see, so apologies for my nippy response. There's no doubt that your team should have won, but I couldn't believe how poor the Saints were at times during the match and this allowed Kelty to have much more possession that they should have had. It's likely to be a different story against St. Mirren.

[Valentino Bolognese]

17 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

This is how a lot of fans feel. I wanted him months ago to step back, admit things weren't working, that he'd made errors - and then try something different. But he's persisted with the same setup, brought in players who everybody can see aren't good enough, blamed individuals he clearly doesn't like, and only grudgingly accepted responsibility, while still saying players aren't doing what they're told. He's a poor communicator at the best of times, but we deserve some explanation.

I think fans would be more understanding if he was honest, open and contrite. And our performances would benefit. But his stubbornness is building up resentment which is now boiling over into toxicity. Almost impossible to unite players and fans after that.

Agree with the first paragraph but honestly think it's almost too far gone for fan forgiveness. A complete change of system, attitude and result on Wednesday followed with that being sustained, combined with what you say is just about the only way out. Wednesday is surely to goodness the last chance saloon. 

With what happened at Kelty yesterday (the crowd at the end) and the interview he gave, a bit of me thinks that getting rid would be kindest thing to do for Callum. Even if he's put himself in he position it's just not healthy. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Valentino Bolognese

[djchapsticks]

39 minutes ago, Fife Saint said:

Hang on, is there a scenario where we actually need to pay a development fee to St Mirren for MacPherson?

If we offer him a new deal on the same terms he's currently on or better, then a development fee will come into play. Not sure how much this will be though - he's been with us since he was a child.