Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[mizfit]

Nope, he'll be lucky to get on.
I'm actually swaying towards "do these c***s deserve new contracts?" With several of the players going out of contract this season. Time for a refresh imo.

The thought crossed my mind when I was walking home, we’ve been fairly lucky with the players, but it feels like the season deflated immediately after Kerr and McCann left with no long term plan to replace them.

[RandomGuy.]

We're paying the price for the club, yet again, refusing to actually plan for a transfer window.

I don't think we've made a single signing under Davidson that feels like he's actually planned it before the window opened.

That'll change from now on, but the damage to this season has probably already been done, so it's yet another Cup win ruined because the next season is one we've simply to muddle through as we cope with the loss of a key player.

[Saint Stevo]

Bloody hell. Absolutely honking the day.

Take the point, move on.

[Saint Stevo]

Looks like Vertainain may be starting the league cup semi.

More chance of Rooney playing solo striker [emoji23]

[steviemay17]

That is legitimately the worst performance I've seen, in terms of effort, quality, attitude and coaching, it was all embarassing. All I ever hear in the media is how "well-drilled" we are but that's not true this season, what we can do is stick everyone back in the box and put bodies on the line - St Mirren are well-drilled as we saw today, they actually created openings and had a plan, we put Glenn Middleton up against three CB's and tried to hump long balls to him. 

I honestly wouldn't care at this point if CB was somehow poached by a team down-south, I've seen enough games this season to now confirm that he cannot coach up a team in a footballing sense, we're either set-pieces or getting lucky from mistakes, there is no plan with this team when they get the ball. How can any coach feel happy about a team that isn't set up to win a game? I guess that translates to the players as well because none of them look like they believe any attack is going to end in a goal, it's just wayward punts and hopeful crosses, yet we don't actually have any players in the box either.

MOH is the definition of a passenger, he can't defend, he also looks to take any opportunity to not drive forward into the space he's given too, that experiment should be over.

We've now seen two performances at McD this season which have shown us what a physical striker can be - Karamoko for LASK and Curtis Main today - Main isn't a good player, I wouldn't want him in our team, but he was still streets ahead of the waste of a shirt that is....

Chris Kane - he doesn't actually try to play football, there were two moments today when we had a good break on, and on both occasions he tried to work back and initiate contact to win a free kick rather than going forward into the space and trying to make something happen.He didn't try to affect the game, he didn't do anything good for the team, and he got sent off for having a stinking/entitled attitude and moaning at the ref twice (I think the first was also because of a foul but he was also striaght in the ref's face to make his mind up)

Crawford at least tried, his performance reminded me of Spoony a few years back when he didn't hide and kept trying to get on the ball even though it probably hurt the team, but we could still be there tomorrow and I doubt we would create a chance, never mind score.

Yes the weather was awful at the end but we were still embarassingly bad, and this season is currently being propped by by a cup run after beating two bad teams - We have a semi-final against a vulnerable Celtic team but we can't/won't try to put them under pressure and then it's going to be a grim few weeks.

The Eetu situation just compounds it - he could give the ball away every time, hide when we have possession, lose every header, offer no goal threat yet if he stayed on for the full 90 then he would still offer more than Kane did, thank f*ck he's now suspended and hopefully someone else can show something

[mizfit]

There’s 2 weeks until the next game, the big question now is, do we stick 3-5-2, or swap and hope it sticks?

Would 4-4-2 work better? Possibly.

[NYD1997]

56 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

That is legitimately the worst performance I've seen, in terms of effort, quality, attitude and coaching, it was all embarassing. All I ever hear in the media is how "well-drilled" we are but that's not true this season, what we can do is stick everyone back in the box and put bodies on the line - St Mirren are well-drilled as we saw today, they actually created openings and had a plan, we put Glenn Middleton up against three CB's and tried to hump long balls to him. 

I honestly wouldn't care at this point if CB was somehow poached by a team down-south, I've seen enough games this season to now confirm that he cannot coach up a team in a footballing sense, we're either set-pieces or getting lucky from mistakes, there is no plan with this team when they get the ball. How can any coach feel happy about a team that isn't set up to win a game? I guess that translates to the players as well because none of them look like they believe any attack is going to end in a goal, it's just wayward punts and hopeful crosses, yet we don't actually have any players in the box either.

MOH is the definition of a passenger, he can't defend, he also looks to take any opportunity to not drive forward into the space he's given too, that experiment should be over.

We've now seen two performances at McD this season which have shown us what a physical striker can be - Karamoko for LASK and Curtis Main today - Main isn't a good player, I wouldn't want him in our team, but he was still streets ahead of the waste of a shirt that is....

Chris Kane - he doesn't actually try to play football, there were two moments today when we had a good break on, and on both occasions he tried to work back and initiate contact to win a free kick rather than going forward into the space and trying to make something happen.He didn't try to affect the game, he didn't do anything good for the team, and he got sent off for having a stinking/entitled attitude and moaning at the ref twice (I think the first was also because of a foul but he was also striaght in the ref's face to make his mind up)

Crawford at least tried, his performance reminded me of Spoony a few years back when he didn't hide and kept trying to get on the ball even though it probably hurt the team, but we could still be there tomorrow and I doubt we would create a chance, never mind score.

Yes the weather was awful at the end but we were still embarassingly bad, and this season is currently being propped by by a cup run after beating two bad teams - We have a semi-final against a vulnerable Celtic team but we can't/won't try to put them under pressure and then it's going to be a grim few weeks.

The Eetu situation just compounds it - he could give the ball away every time, hide when we have possession, lose every header, offer no goal threat yet if he stayed on for the full 90 then he would still offer more than Kane did, thank f*ck he's now suspended and hopefully someone else can show something

Whilst we were awful today - this may be the worst takeaway of today’s game.

 

Whilst yeah it wasn’t great to watch the manager has done what was needed after the disaster of the Livi sh*t show which is get your defence solid and then build from there again - you can’t get beat if you don’t concede.

Kane got the team up the park single handily multiple times - this is with the laziest player on the park beside him in the first half.

Crawford was awful today - I really like him but today was not his day, everything he did went through wrong way (the conditions wouldn’t have helped him)

The Eetu situation is strange however it may say more about the recruitment manager who has pushed to get him in and yet the manager doesn’t seem too keen on him

 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, mizfit said:

There’s 2 weeks until the next game, the big question now is, do we stick 3-5-2, or swap and hope it sticks?

Would 4-4-2 work better? Possibly.

I think it's clear now that Davidson won't move away from it, which was my biggest worry when he first talked up "his system".

Managers need to be flexible, those who aren't tend to struggle long term.

Edited November 6, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[perthsaint1977]

For various reasons that was my first time seeing saints in the flesh since United at home in August 

Wow. Where to even start. Brutal performance. So many passengers. 

Quick look at results at home under Cal at home in the league...

Played 26

Won 6

Lost 11

Drawn 9

Scored 15

Conceded 24

13 out of 26 we have failed to score. 

Get this formation at home in the bin as it just is not working. 

 

[Broon_100]

Not many positives from that. Certainly better when May and Spoony came on but still not great. Kane has his place (away from home against better teams) but we surely need to be looking at better players than Kane up top if we want to improve out status as the lowest scorers in the league.

Feels like a lot of square pegs in round holes to fit this 3-5-2. Is it worth it?

 

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, perthsaint1977 said:

For various reasons that was my first time seeing saints in the flesh since United at home in August 

Wow. Where to even start. Brutal performance. So many passengers. 

Quick look at results at home under Cal at home in the league...

Played 26

Won 6

Lost 11

Drawn 9

Scored 15

Conceded 24

13 out of 26 we have failed to score. 

Get this formation at home in the bin as it just is not working. 

 

Its hard to justify sticking with it when you look at those figures. Its not as if its just a couple of bad games or that, its been fairly consistent for over a season now.

I do think the quality of player we have in attack is as much of an issue as the shape to a point though. Wotherspoon and Bryson are the only midfielders I'm happy to see starting these days, as I just don't think the others are good enough to do anything useful on the ball. Same up front really, we end up clapping like seals when May and Kane press someone or hold the ball up, as if its the best we can expect, while neither have any sort of ruthless streak around them when they actually see the goal.

In all fairness I think May is good at helping create chances these days but ultimately it means f**k all if one of your strikers is stood on the left flank back heeling balls to your left back. Kane being undroppable as our only starting striker probably a nice summation of why we never score, while Middleton/Wotherspoon/every midfielder don't even seem to ever touch the ball in the box these days.

Muller was getting absolutely slaughtered in the first half by Davidson/MacLean for not pushing up, to the point I assumed it was him off at half time. Clearly they know the shape relies on the wide CBs pushing up, so why continue with it when you've not got the players available who can do it? 

I dunno. Its hard to really argue against a manager/system which won us 2 cups, has us in another semi and more than likely will lead us to mid-table again, and I know how weird this'll sound, but theres very little about Davidsons reign thats been promising for the long term. Our squad is disintegrating and is being plugged with sticking plasters with us completely reliant on loans, the already poor style of play is declining, and its possible we're going to break the league record for lowest home goals scored in a season for the 2nd time under him. Its hard to see him leaving us in a better position than he found us in, and that would mean he'll be the first manager to do that to us for a long time. Hopefully just the usual doom and gloom after a poor performance though.

[mizfit]

I don’t have any real concerns on relegation, but it does feel like it’s a massive missed opportunity to build on last season.

That’s twice happened, and both times it falls on the chairman.

We’ve sold our best player at the end of the window twice, whilst McCann obviously wanted to move on, why didn’t we have a plan in place back in July to cover him leaving? Crawford felt like a panic loan, as did Macpherson, despite Davidson saying he’s been a long term fan of his.

2 weeks until the semi final, then a run of Hibs, Dundee, County and Aberdeen, we can’t let the poor performances in front of goal continue.

Also, the solution is not another fucking loan, people ask why Vertainain isn’t starting. Something tells me this isn’t a Melamed situation, but rather our head of recruitment has signed someone who either doesn’t suit the system, or is nowhere near as good as we thought.

[PauloPerth]

36 minutes ago, mizfit said:

I don’t have any real concerns on relegation, but it does feel like it’s a massive missed opportunity to build on last season.

That’s twice happened, and both times it falls on the chairman.

We’ve sold our best player at the end of the window twice, whilst McCann obviously wanted to move on, why didn’t we have a plan in place back in July to cover him leaving? Crawford felt like a panic loan, as did Macpherson, despite Davidson saying he’s been a long term fan of his.

2 weeks until the semi final, then a run of Hibs, Dundee, County and Aberdeen, we can’t let the poor performances in front of goal continue.

Also, the solution is not another fucking loan, people ask why Vertainain isn’t starting. Something tells me this isn’t a Melamed situation, but rather our head of recruitment has signed someone who either doesn’t suit the system, or is nowhere near as good as we thought.

 

Is that definitely the case this summer?  I honestly don't know either way, but is it a fact that no funds were available, or did Davidson just not have anyone to bring in, or was maybe happy enough with what he had?

 

I'm still a bit bemused by the loaning out of Hendry.  I know he's not Callum's type at all, and for a lot on here who don't rate him, but in a tight game like that yesterday, bringing him on with 15 minutes to go to see if he can grab a winner at least is an attacking option.

[Jamie_B]

If we’re sticking with the same system I think we need to decide which players suit it best. Mccart’s form has disappeared and he’s probably needing a rest. Muller won’t step out in that RCB role - and given we couldn’t get close to getting Rooney involved wide right yesterday maybe we give him a run in that position and give Dendoncker a game or two at LCB? He has been decent when he’s played and I doubt he’d be a step backwards on yesterday’s version of McCart.

Bryson has to start in the middle - he’s the only player who looked like he could play any football yesterday. I think May probably deserves to start the next few up front as well. Are we assuming Vertainen just isn’t going to make any impact? I think we must be at this stage. Booth only really seems to work as an attacking threat with Spoony beside him, and the MOH/Rooney combination on the right at least worked against (an admittedly dreadful) Dundee.

There needs to be a shake up, and the recruitment in January has to be bang on.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, mizfit said:

Something tells me this isn’t a Melamed situation, but rather our head of recruitment has signed someone who either doesn’t suit the system, or is nowhere near as good as we thought.

You should probably direct your gaze towards a manager who selects strikers based on how well they chase down opposing full backs, more than anything.

For a chunk of the 2nd half yesterday we have May wide left, Kane covering wide right, and Crawford as the main central player. Vertainen was signed as the manager wanted "something different" up front, only to then decide he wants to stick with the sam tried and trusted formula that sees us never score.

31 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Is that definitely the case this summer?  I honestly don't know either way, but is it a fact that no funds were available, or did Davidson just not have anyone to bring in, or was maybe happy enough with what he had?

I'd say it's a safe bet to say the managers "plan" to replace Kerr was to loan in Muller from Millwall. Which probably says everything about his approach to transfers that needs said.

[Valentino Bolognese]

45 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

Is that definitely the case this summer?  I honestly don't know either way, but is it a fact that no funds were available, or did Davidson just not have anyone to bring in, or was maybe happy enough with what he had?

 

I'm still a bit bemused by the loaning out of Hendry.  I know he's not Callum's type at all, and for a lot on here who don't rate him, but in a tight game like that yesterday, bringing him on with 15 minutes to go to see if he can grab a winner at least is an attacking option.

Spilling over a bit from the game thread but I do wonder if it's a case of funds being such that we could have more or better, but not both?

Not unreasonable of Callum to expect his players to give him similar to last year - not cup wins obviously but in terms of commitment and quality. However I do wonder if we're seeing a bit of 'after the lord mayor's show' , and also the new manager effect wearing off a bit, combined with a few players looking more towards the end of their contract, and thinking that last year's achievements was their best chance of a big(ish) move.

[perthsaint1977]

The statistics are brutal at home. Only been 1 game in 26 where we have scored more than 1 goal in the league (Dundee game).

Taken 27 points from a total of 78 points (26 home league games under Davidson)

 

[perthsaint1977]

29 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

If we’re sticking with the same system I think we need to decide which players suit it best. Mccart’s form has disappeared and he’s probably needing a rest. Muller won’t step out in that RCB role - and given we couldn’t get close to getting Rooney involved wide right yesterday maybe we give him a run in that position and give Dendoncker a game or two at LCB? He has been decent when he’s played and I doubt he’d be a step backwards on yesterday’s version of McCart.

Bryson has to start in the middle - he’s the only player who looked like he could play any football yesterday. I think May probably deserves to start the next few up front as well. Are we assuming Vertainen just isn’t going to make any impact? I think we must be at this stage. Booth only really seems to work as an attacking threat with Spoony beside him, and the MOH/Rooney combination on the right at least worked against (an admittedly dreadful) Dundee.

There needs to be a shake up, and the recruitment in January has to be bang on.

Booth has been pretty poor recently - Devine has looked pretty handy when come on against Hearts and united (even though was on the RWB position) - good energy and pace to get up and support more

[akuram]

Surely by now our management must see that what we have as a strike force just is not good enough. Other teams such as Motherwell can find strikers from down south or abroad who score goals. We bring in a striker who for some reason is not played so up to now has been a complete waste of time and money. He may prove me wrong and I hope so but so far has been pointless.
We needed a striker for our European games desperately anyone with half a braincell could see that.
What have we done with all the money from the cup wins and Europe?
Some of it should have been used to give us a fighting chance.

[The Marly]

6 hours ago, perthsaint1977 said:

Booth has been pretty poor recently - Devine has looked pretty handy when come on against Hearts and united (even though was on the RWB position) - good energy and pace to get up and support more

I actually thought Booth was one of the few to get pass marks yesterday,  along with Zander,  Gordon and Bryson.