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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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5 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Let's just wait and see what happens next. One thing's for sure we are about to find out how good Kerr and McCann were/weren't for St Johnstone. 

Are we? I think we know how good they were for us. 

I couldn't be less interested now they're gone. It's irrelevant. 

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2 hours ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

In and of themselves, I don’t hate any of the signings we’ve made. And I can’t grudge Kerr or McCann their moves - they’ve more than earned them and being a club that develops young talent and sells them on is where we want to be.

But the combination of losing our two best players in the last two hours of the window, the fee for McCann in particular, only supplementing the squad with loans, the continuing lack of a goal scorer, the delay in getting Vertainen signed and the uncertainty that all of that breeds on the back of failing to win a single game so far this season is not good. At all.

The sell on percentage for McCann needs to be in excess of 30%. He could easily go for £5m plus in 12 months time. The same goes for Kerr really. Their buyers have made very sound investments for tiny sums of money in the scheme of things.

Spot on.  Even at that massive 30% of £5m, it's only £1.7m for the club.  It's good, but it's not going to be life changing either.

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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

25% of McCanns next fee btw.

Completely changes the look of the transfer.

It would if he were moving to a club known  for developing and selling players on. Preston are not that! Only ever received a £10mil+ fee once and typically don't sell players at a high price at all. I know McCann is good, I know he'll improve and earn a move elsewhere at a higher level if he keeps progressing, I just don't think Preston are the team to capitalise on his future potential.

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9 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

Never a good thing losing two of your best players so late on. However, anyone who thought they’d get anywhere near £3m for Ali McCann is delusional.

Would agree 3 million was a bit fanciful but to go for less than half that is pretty shambolic tbh. To the point Im shocked we didn’t come in last minute with more money.

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

25% of McCanns next fee btw.

Completely changes the look of the transfer.

Surely thats of profit though? I think having 25% of a total fee (unless its part of a development fee agreement) is relatively unheard of and is possibly counter productive as would encourage the club to just let him wind his contract down if in the latter part of it.

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3 minutes ago, gannonball said:

 

Surely thats of profit though? I think having 25% of a total fee (unless its part of a development fee agreement) is relatively unheard of and is possibly counter productive as would encourage the club to just let him wind his contract down if in the latter part of it.

Well no, because the selling club still gets 75%. 75% of something is better than hee haw if they let him wind his contract down.

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

He's been here for over 12 months, and as far as I know been in charge of getting players to the club in that time. He sold himself as someone with a lot of contacts down South.

Losing Kerr and McCann in this window shouldve been a blow, not a full blown disaster. It's the type of situation anyone in Scottish football could've predicted would happen about 8 months ago. Who did Davidson identify to bring in to resolve that? Charlie Gilmour, a boy with recurring back injuries who'd been a free agent for 5 months before we signed him and who's played 100 minutes in 7 months? James Brown? As bog standard a right back as you'll find, who doesn't fit the system the manager uses? As that's the only permanent signings we've made since last Summers window shut.

There's no coincidence we're suddenly pouring loanees into the squad since he became manager. Half them are from Millwall.

I used to slate TWs transfer policy but at least he tried to plan for the future. Davidson has had 3 windows now, and there's not a single signing made in any of them where it looks like he's clearly planned in advance. We're paying the price for that now but by christ the biggest moment is still to come if they don't go all in to resolve it over the next two windows. 

Decision to sell McCann for peanuts isn't his fault, not having the squad prepared for his departure is.

Yes I agree, but I was only talking about the decision to sell two of our best players so cheaply so late on.

I love Davidson as a manager, and what he's done for us, but i always felt he took over Wright's team at a great time.  Wright brought in all of them, apart from about 5 players to supplement the squad on short term deals.  TW brought through Gordon, Clark, Kerr, McCann, Kane (and Hendry and May). Signed Rooney, Tanser and McCart.  He was playing the 3 at the back in our last 5 months as well.

Exactly the same when Wright won the cup, he took over a very strong squad from Lomas that had been put together over years and got great success with it.

You can go back to McInnes before Lomas and it was happening.  The problem is, right now, If Callum were to leave, what are we leaving for his successor?  It looks like it's undoing over a decade of progress and continuity.

Still hoping the club has a plan or there's justifiable reasons for this, but it's hard to fathom right now.  I'd be surprised if Clark, Rooney or McCart wanted to extend their deals.  Gordon being a local lad is maybe different.

Think the new head of recruitment is getting off lightly.  He's only identifying players, not developing them.  He should have been starting with a dossier of loads of players and their values.  Otherwise, how the f**k did he get the job?

Still think our squad should be strong enough to stay up, just depends the impact on the morale.

Maybe January it'll all come good....!!

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15 minutes ago, Rugster said:

Well no, because the selling club still gets 75%. 75% of something is better than hee haw if they let him wind his contract down.

I don’t think that really needed pointed out to me or anyone tbh.

ETA - The ‘hee haw’ is a bit simplistic though. From the boards point of view, the cut of it all or just the profit could be the difference between accepting a bid rather than letting the contract wind down is the point I am trying to make. I think thats why you don’t really much of a full %age sell on fees in transfers.

Edited by gannonball
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If the 25% is correct, then that does help a bit, but then I'd have thought £2m plus 25% would have been reasonable.

I know the club say it had the potential to exceed the record transfer, but a few things on that:

The record was in 1998, so really we should be exceeding it when you see how much overall transfers have gone up.

It relies on the add ons. Does this include the 25% and even if not, I would imagine there will be a chunk for number of appearances etc, but biggest probably promotion to EPL, which frankly is unlikely.

Edited by Theyellowbox
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54 minutes ago, welldaft said:

That is the problem with winning two cups and performing admirably in Europe. The only way is down…

I don’t think what happened last night will lead to a Dundee United but then again if Davidson leaves it may well do. 

Still reckon St Johnstone will finish above Livi, County and one or two others. 

I think I saw someone compare McCann to Turnbull. I think he forgot that Turnbull had played a season b4 his injury and scored 16 goals from midfield for Motherwell. I was and am still annoyed we only got £3.25m for him.  Especially when Rangers are quoting £10m for Patterson 😱 after a handful of senior appearances. 

Still McCann looked a very good player whenever I saw him on TV. I think it is fair to accept that £2-2.5m would have been a fairer valuation imho. 
 

The big difference is McCann has done it in big matches. European ties for us, cup wins at ibrox, cup finals, internationals for Northern Ireland.  In that great goalscoring run for Turnbull, all but one or two were against st Mirren, Dundee, accies and other bottom six sides.  He's an exciting player, and perfect for Celtic in matches where they will dominate like scoring a hat trick against st Mirren etc, but hes very unproven in a lot of bigger games.

 

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Our defence looks dreadful whenever one of the usual back three is missing. Our attack has been toothless. Without Ali McCann, we lack quality in the engine room. In this transfer window, we have lost Ali McCann and one of our defensive three for PEANUTS, and we haven’t even been linked with a proper striker, let alone signing one. We aren’t in a good place. If Vertainen signs and nobody else does, he has my sympathies. The general expectations will be a lot higher in terms of goalscoring than his past record (and position on the pitch) suggests is possible.

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