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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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Yeah, my Twitter has blown up since I posted about Davidson earlier. I simply don't have enough time or energy to respond to all of the idiocy.

Someone has brought up Watford FC as an example of why we shouldn't change our manager. Not sure that Watford have been following the policy of 'Get rid of a manager if he has been incompetent for almost two years.' If that is indeed their policy, I guess it would be very Watford-esque indeed.

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27 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

The lunatics that still want Davidson in have great arguments tbf...

"Careful what you wish for."

" 7th, 8th or 9th is still successful for us."

" Who would you replace him with?"

" Could you do better?".

Saw one post saying we’re only three points off last season’s total having already scored more goals. Whilst true it cannot be used as a barometer of success. 
 

Any point made about the football under Tommy Wright being pretty dire is totally missing the point in my book. 

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That first half yesterday was the worst in a long time. The Livi game wasn’t even comparable; in that one we actually started well but Livi scored with every attack then we lost our way before changing it at HT and getting back into it.

I’m less anti-Davidson than most on here in that I like the guy and he’s got a tremendous history with the club. I want him to turn it around, and there were actual signs of that leading up to the World Cup. But yesterday was the culmination of a steady regression since. You could go down the south inch and see teams better organised, more committed and with a clearer plan than us in that first half.
It’s one thing to set up wrong , or the opposition have the upper hand, but I can’t see a single explanation for watching that and not thinking we have to change something here ages before we did.  Killie scoring was as inevitable as it was frustrating.  The fact it was only 1-0 at HT was sheer luck.

I hate to speak about one of our players like this, but folk on here saying with Bair we haven’t got the best out of him or not using him to his strengths etc are nearly at the same level of lunacy as our manager for that starting team yesterday. He’s never a player and never will be at this level.  Not a single attribute or positive in 14 months. 
And starting Carey again beggared belief after his recent form. I honestly think Ali Crawford offered more than Carey has this past month-6 weeks.

You feel without doing anything spectacular, just making the sensible obvious decisions, we could be well clear of relegation cruising to 7th or 8th and building a team that offers promise for next season:-

Sinclair, Wright, McPherson-Phillips, May, Rudden and Chris Kane brought back in, and some of the younger players getting run outs.

We won’t though, we’ll keep smashing our heads against the brick wall trying to make this shite work. 

The culmination of the circus that is VAR, the return of only two teams likely to ever win anything, and our shite set up and style on a shite pitch has me also in the unlikely to renew my season ticket category, unless I see something more positive and promising emerging in the next couple of months.

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To be honest: based on the content of Davidson's interviews, his complete lack of social/man-management skills and his horrendous body language on the sidelines, I'd say that I don't like what I've seen of him as a person. If it was solely due to his lack of managerial ability, I'd still want to get rid of him. Throw his personality into the mix and it's a no-brainer for me.

He places more value on his bruised ego than on the club he supposedly loves. If he remotely cared about St Johnstone, he would have walked a long time ago.

Edited by The Real Saints
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3 minutes ago, The Real Saints said:

 If he remotely cared about St Johnstone, he would have walked a long time ago.

This is shite.

To say any struggling manager has to leave a club rather than try to turn it around or believe they can improve things, means they don’t care about the club or are just doing it for selfish reasons is nonsense.

 

 

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10th is the absolute minimal level of expectation we should be setting. It’s not a barometer of success and not a level we should aim for. 
 

Before the World Cup, we were looking okay for a potential top 6 push. We came back and people seemed to shy away from it and push towards staying in the top flight is a great achievement.

 

Now, we’re looking over our shoulders and counting until we’re safe. 
 

Callum will not be sacked, at least not this season. No one down south will poach him this season either. In short, I don’t know what’ll happen with him, I want it to work with him, but his lack of progression and obsession with his system is ruining him. 
 

We have to rebuild sustainably, and think long term. There’s a plethora of talent that’ll be available at the end of the season we should be aiming for and should be able to poach. Should being the key word. I don’t know if we will though as I don’t know what the plan is, and also what they’re aiming for. 
 

f**k knows what’s going to happen and I’m just rambling for the sake of it I feel, but in short callums ruining his legacy, and he needs to sort something out quickly.

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Given the amount of money he's spent/wasted on fees and contracts if he was a decent manager we'd be comfortable in the top 6. We're not. We're a wee bit better off than last season. But the performances have been dire.

His win/loss ratio is an embarrassment and if you only follow home games you rarely see the team actually win. 

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24 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

People surely don't believe this after watching Killie play two up front with two very creative wingers that took the piss out of us at times. 🤷‍♂️

No other team in the league plays as negatively as Saints. Without question

You obviously didn’t see St Mirren, or Motherwell, or Ross county, or Kilmarnock (bear in mind they have scored less than us this year). Yeah the football hasn’t been great but if we open up we are likely to get our arses handed to us, badly (see livi at home) 

Edited by NYD1997
Wording was crap
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16 minutes ago, NYD1997 said:

You obviously didn’t see St Mirren, or Motherwell, or Ross county, or Kilmarnock (bear in mind they have scored less than us this year). Yeah the football hasn’t been great but if we open up we are likely to get our arses felt badly (see livi at home) 

I've been to every game this season apart from our cup disaster and the recent trips to Ibrox and Celtic Park.

I feel like I'm living in some alternative universe. we're struggling and already getting beat most weeks? We've conceded the first goal something like 18 times this season. We've got an appalling home record. We've only managed 2 wins this year and that was against a terrible Motherwell side who sacked their manager the following week and a United team who let's be frank on par or worse than last season's Dundee. 

Yesterday's first half wasn't us trying to be expansive? Other teams are playing much more entertaining football. Livi ripped us to shreds at McDiarmid. Kilmarnock did likewise in the first half with two skilful wingers. It's possible. 

Struggling to see how anyone can watch our current game plan and think it's as a good idea or that it's working because it hasn't worked very well for 2 years. A result every 5-6 games isn't some sort of vindication that Davidsons game plan works. 

Other managers have long since worked out how to play against us yet we continue to repeatedly try the same thing. 

Edited by SJFCtheTeamForMe
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Some perspective here

 

Has this season been poor and brutal to watch? Yes

Has it been a damn sight better than last year? Also yes

Last season we were truly broken (some will blame the manager for that, some will blame other influences inside the club) this season from the outset, you can see the plan is to build stability. Which we are doing. 

Yes the 3/5 at the back wouldn’t be my choice and no how we are playing isn’t great. But also this year we have got ourselves back on our feet and can look to blood the younger bodies soon

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2 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

This is shite.

To say any struggling manager has to leave a club rather than try to turn it around or believe they can improve things, means they don’t care about the club or are just doing it for selfish reasons is nonsense.

 

 

Yeah, I worded that badly. But I'm not entirely sure that Callum Davidson would consider himself a struggling manager. I get the impression from his interviews that he's quite satisfied with how things are going. I feel that his signing policy shows a lack of care for St Johnstone's long-term future. I feel like the way he freezes out players and calls them out in public shows a lack of concern for St Johnstone's reputation. He has previously said that Saints don't have a right to be in the top league. All of these things don't strike me as the actions of someone who particularly respects the club.  I believe he has some character flaws which result in his perseverance with a failed system rather than attempting to change things. If he had self-awareness or integrity, I believe he'd try to amend these things OR he'd realise the rift which has been caused between himself and a large section of the fanbase and he'd walk away.

Anyway, Chris Millar has now joined the mob in my Twitter replies. Not particularly enjoying this. Might hibernate until next spring.

Edited by The Real Saints
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38 minutes ago, NYD1997 said:

Some perspective here

 

Has this season been poor and brutal to watch? Yes

Has it been a damn sight better than last year? Also yes

Last season we were truly broken (some will blame the manager for that, some will blame other influences inside the club) this season from the outset, you can see the plan is to build stability. Which we are doing. 

Yes the 3/5 at the back wouldn’t be my choice and no how we are playing isn’t great. But also this year we have got ourselves back on our feet and can look to blood the younger bodies soon

That perspective isn’t really taking in the whole picture. 

Davidson has spent a fortune on players and the best we can really hope for is 8th and you’d think probably 9th given current trajectories

hes replaced a young vibrant squad (built on a shoestring relative to what Davidson has been allowed to spend to replace the departing players) with aging ‘do a job’ signings who have no resale value. He has either had the final say in signing all the players currently at the club or agreed to extend their contracts, so I’m struggling to see how he can hide behind the board and previous employees of the club on that front either.

the football is terrible to watch and we lose more than half the matches. Literally the worst of all worlds. Setting up to not lose every week, no matter the opposition, is depressing. Even against Ayr in the league cup, when we knew a big win could get us through, we scored an early goal and made no attempt to try and get more, just happily take the 1-0 even though we were out without more goals.

he’s married to a horrendous shape that hasn’t ever really worked, outside of a ridiculously good 4 month window. He has shown no signs that he’s learning or that he can be adaptable, he’s just more than happy to hang players out to dry out of position and leave out of form players in the team if they’re his favourites. 
 

his treatment of individual players is inconsistent and at times awful. Wotherspoon being the most recent player he’s decided to try and freeze out for no reason, when you’ve got a dumpling like Carey stinking out the place every week and he’s apparently undroppable. 
 

the general standards that are acceptable at Saints have dropped through the floor under Davidson’s stewardship. We used to take hammerings off the bigger teams occasionally - it’s par for the course when you’re St Johnstone - but I’d never expect a manager to say they’re pleased after such a performance. He should be furious and going all out to get a reaction the following week. The club seem to be buzzing at the prospect of finishing above 11th, despite spending a fortune and with what must be the biggest squad in our history. There’s just no desire to try and push on, we just chase after bad for short term fixes. 
 

The pitch doesn’t help but it’s the same for both teams and the home form has been dreadful since Davidson took over. 9 home goals in the league the year we won the double. The cup successes and the players at that time - all of the main players were brought in by Tommy wright at that time - masked that issue in his first season but he’s not really tried anything to improve that either. 
 

As things stand I can’t see me renewing my season ticket. Other issues at the club and in my life generally are contributing to that as well but the main driver is Callum Davidson and his anti football philosophy. I can feel myself drifting away from the club - I didn’t even follow the game on Saturday, which isn’t like me at all - and have to drag myself along to games out of habit… and because I like the steak and gravy pies. 

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1 hour ago, NYD1997 said:

Some perspective here

 

Has this season been poor and brutal to watch? Yes

Has it been a damn sight better than last year? Also yes

Last season we were truly broken (some will blame the manager for that, some will blame other influences inside the club) this season from the outset, you can see the plan is to build stability. Which we are doing. 

Yes the 3/5 at the back wouldn’t be my choice and no how we are playing isn’t great. But also this year we have got ourselves back on our feet and can look to blood the younger bodies soon

It's been slightly better. Helped by having some truly dreadful teams below us up to this point. 

 

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7 hours ago, NYD1997 said:

Yeah the football hasn’t been great but if we open up we are likely to get our arses handed to us, badly (see livi at home) 

"Clubs like St Johnstone cant play 4-4-2 in the top flight"

Nice to see you've slunk back btw. The old "Callum has done no wrong" PR machine back into full flow because hes under pressure again, presumably we'll start hearing stories of how its all somebody elses fault again soon.

Edited by RandomGuy.
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8 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

I want him to turn it around, and there were actual signs of that leading up to the World Cup.

There were signs after it too. The 3 games after Livingston (Rangers/Motherwell/Celtic) had him switching between a back 4/5 and the performances were great despite scorelines. What you want to see from a Saints side. Slight black mark was him freezing v Motherwell and not making subs when players were clearly fucked. It looked like the Livingston game had, finally, helped it sink in that he needs to be able to switch shapes with us and be less predictable to opponents.

Then for whatever reason (the fact Celtic humped us?) hes just decided the back 4 simply cannot work and we've been launching James Brown all across the defence to play the back 5 again.

I can fully see the argument this squad is just a stop gap to rebuild a "base", but even then its flawed if youre chucking 2/3 year deals at folk in their mid-30s who'll want to be starting that whole time. Wotherspoon getting phased out isnt great but isnt totally awful either, the issue is the managers seemingly planned to replace him with a 33yo.

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7 hours ago, Kyle said:

That perspective isn’t really taking in the whole picture. 

Davidson has spent a fortune on players and the best we can really hope for is 8th and you’d think probably 9th given current trajectories

hes replaced a young vibrant squad (built on a shoestring relative to what Davidson has been allowed to spend to replace the departing players) with aging ‘do a job’ signings who have no resale value. He has either had the final say in signing all the players currently at the club or agreed to extend their contracts, so I’m struggling to see how he can hide behind the board and previous employees of the club on that front either.

the football is terrible to watch and we lose more than half the matches. Literally the worst of all worlds. Setting up to not lose every week, no matter the opposition, is depressing. Even against Ayr in the league cup, when we knew a big win could get us through, we scored an early goal and made no attempt to try and get more, just happily take the 1-0 even though we were out without more goals.

he’s married to a horrendous shape that hasn’t ever really worked, outside of a ridiculously good 4 month window. He has shown no signs that he’s learning or that he can be adaptable, he’s just more than happy to hang players out to dry out of position and leave out of form players in the team if they’re his favourites. 
 

his treatment of individual players is inconsistent and at times awful. Wotherspoon being the most recent player he’s decided to try and freeze out for no reason, when you’ve got a dumpling like Carey stinking out the place every week and he’s apparently undroppable. 
 

the general standards that are acceptable at Saints have dropped through the floor under Davidson’s stewardship. We used to take hammerings off the bigger teams occasionally - it’s par for the course when you’re St Johnstone - but I’d never expect a manager to say they’re pleased after such a performance. He should be furious and going all out to get a reaction the following week. The club seem to be buzzing at the prospect of finishing above 11th, despite spending a fortune and with what must be the biggest squad in our history. There’s just no desire to try and push on, we just chase after bad for short term fixes. 
 

The pitch doesn’t help but it’s the same for both teams and the home form has been dreadful since Davidson took over. 9 home goals in the league the year we won the double. The cup successes and the players at that time - all of the main players were brought in by Tommy wright at that time - masked that issue in his first season but he’s not really tried anything to improve that either. 
 

As things stand I can’t see me renewing my season ticket. Other issues at the club and in my life generally are contributing to that as well but the main driver is Callum Davidson and his anti football philosophy. I can feel myself drifting away from the club - I didn’t even follow the game on Saturday, which isn’t like me at all - and have to drag myself along to games out of habit… and because I like the steak and gravy pies. 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think he has been good this year, certain things like the insistence on playing Carey and Bair (although if Kane was fit I don’t think the latter would be an issue), the 3 at the back (although we could play 4 at the back and have the same mentality) the treatment of a couple of players this season (D, Gallagher and Murphy are the 3 for me for that - whilst giving others more than ample chances) as well as playing players out of position so he didn’t have to be flexible.

However, I also think that this season has been the creating of a base again. I suspect it’s a case of once bitten, twice shy, with him this year. He doesn’t want to get burnt like last year so he would rather grind out 1-0 wins, with experienced heads who will ‘do a job’ than open up, try a different type of player and get hammered - the only issues with that is it gives no wiggle room if it’s not right for that game. 
 

My point is that people are making it out that it’s as bad as last season, it’s not, it’s not great but for me it’s a step back towards setting a standard again instead of trying to set it straight away and another last season happening 

Edited by NYD1997
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11 hours ago, The Real Saints said:

Yeah, my Twitter has blown up since I posted about Davidson earlier. I simply don't have enough time or energy to respond to all of the idiocy.

Someone has brought up Watford FC as an example of why we shouldn't change our manager. Not sure that Watford have been following the policy of 'Get rid of a manager if he has been incompetent for almost two years.' If that is indeed their policy, I guess it would be very Watford-esque indeed.

Enjoyed reading the profiles of people disagreeing.

To a man literally every single one has a mention of the "80s" in their replies in the past week and how fans these days have it great.

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