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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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57 minutes ago, big al said:

All the fans who were greeting for Davidson (double winning manager) to be removed all seemed to have vanished. 
 

*waves*

I still have doubts. This squad isn't a long term one and is unlikely to survive past the Summer, and he's still not shown he can build a squad thats not filled with ageing players. Thats fine for the short term and we needed experience, but you can't rely on managing that every Summer. We've had some huge slices of luck this season too (which tbf is simply cancelling out some of the awful stuff that happened last season in terms of key injuries/baffling decisions).

He deserves credit, and has earned himself time and space to now develop the squad, for what hes done in the Summer and since though. Hes created a base to build from and if we make the top half that should be seen as a massive success considering where we were 6 months ago.

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2 hours ago, big al said:

All the fans who were greeting for Davidson (double winning manager) to be removed all seemed to have vanished. 
 

They're still here - satisfied that he has managed to turn it and change his setup. He was historically bad last year and still has massive question marks about his long term strategy tbh.

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1 hour ago, Fife Saint said:

They're still here - satisfied that he has managed to turn it and change his setup. He was historically bad last year and still has massive question marks about his long term strategy tbh.

Hard to please are the saintees. 
Even harder to have long term strategy in this league. Sign a player who does well and someone with more money takes them away pretty quickly. For this see Miovski as an example. Been here 5 months and rumours of potential bids/moves already. He’s not even that amazing, just had a decent enough start and scored a few of which a lot are penalties.

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6 hours ago, big al said:

Hard to please are the saintees. 
Even harder to have long term strategy in this league. Sign a player who does well and someone with more money takes them away pretty quickly. For this see Miovski as an example. Been here 5 months and rumours of potential bids/moves already. He’s not even that amazing, just had a decent enough start and scored a few of which a lot are penalties.

Long term isnt necessarily 5/6 years.

Our regular starting 11 has 3 loanees, and 6 players over 30. One of those under 30 (Hallberg) is out of contract this Summer.

Aberdeen spend a fortune on Miovski types as theyll hope to recoup it via sales. We're spending a fortune on Considine, McGowan, Carey and Clark, who we'll never sell. We've spent more in the past 12 months on fees than combined in the previous 20 years, and are unlikely to get any back as it stands.

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25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Long term isnt necessarily 5/6 years.

Our regular starting 11 has 3 loanees, and 6 players over 30. One of those under 30 (Hallberg) is out of contract this Summer.

Aberdeen spend a fortune on Miovski types as theyll hope to recoup it via sales. We're spending a fortune on Considine, McGowan, Carey and Clark, who we'll never sell. We've spent more in the past 12 months on fees than combined in the previous 20 years, and are unlikely to get any back as it stands.

This is true, but was probably needed to ensure you were a good enough team.

It’s all about short term for most of the clubs though to be honest. Managers and players change so regularly these days. Sounds like you have a base though to gradually add younger players to, and with a bit of luck 1 or 2 of them might improve and make you a few quid. You need to be the established team first though.

 

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, big al said:

This is true, but was probably needed to ensure you were a good enough team.

It was totally understandable considering the way last season went (lack of experience seemed to lead to heads going down quickly) and has provided him with a base to now build a younger group from. Hes spent a fortune (relatively) building this squad and we're now tied to that money being spent though, this isnt your usual scraped together Saints side on free transfers, there must be 5/6 in there we've paid fees for now.

Im just wary that we're into his 3rd season, hes spent more than any manager since probably Totten, and this is where we're at. If/when we see progress towards that goal, plus continuing results/performances like we have, ill happily give him my full backing. As it stands i have doubts he'll do that and we'll end up having to rebuild our entire side in 12 months again.

This upcoming Summer window will tell us a lot about if hes learned lessons. Last time he had a settled, safe, squad headed into a Summer window he done the bare minimum to move it forwards, assuming the status quo would be fine, and last season happened. I want to see him try and push us on with younger players.

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9 hours ago, Costanza said:

Was Ryan McGowan suspended today? Not clear from the preview pieces where only Hallberg and Mitchell were mentioned.

Aye - picked up his sixth booking at St. Mirren, same as Hallberg. Strange he wasn’t listed on the SPFL website though. 

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I think the noises about looking at players like Paton from QoS are really positive for me. Exactly the sort of move I think fans would back (even if it ultimately didn’t work out) to help the transition again to bringing the squad age profile down. 
 

Callum absolutely deserves the full backing of everyone just now, and a chance to see if he can re-balance the squad over next 2/3 windows with a gradual transition. 
 

He has brought together a squad with bite and fight again, addressed the short term issues, and now very much deserves the opportunity to address longer term future. 
 

Appreciate concerns about squad size and wage bill but on flip side we are going to lose a few undoubtedly high earners in either Jan or summer - Vertainen, Mahon and O’Hallaron spring to mind. I would imagine this will be Muzz final season with us too. 
 

The loanees will go back to their parent clubs and the likes of Gilmour will leave. That could take the squad doen to maybe 20 and leave space for 3/4 quality younger signings and keep squad size a little smaller. 
 

The likes of Bair, Max will have bigger roles to play too so there is potentially a transition plan in place. 

Edited by John Bonham
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11 minutes ago, THE FAT MAN said:

Does anyone know how many games Mitchell McGowan and Halberg miss out 

Chances are if more than one game we go to Celtic away with out those 3 plus Montgomery missing and maybe Mathews depending how bad his illness is 

All three are back on Saturday. Mitchell served his two-match suspension against Motherwell before the break and County yesterday. Other two were just one-game-bans. 

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For me, Callum still hasn't won me over, nowhere fucking near it. There are fine lines and the main difference between this season and last has been more luck rather than tactical nouse. Yesterday, Hibs, the late goals in a few games and even VAR has helped us. His squads have been a shitshow tbh bloated with shite players, usually after paying some sort of fee for and pishy loans. He has brought in a couple of players I like though, probably because they're auld c***s like me but he does need to lower the age of the squad, the noises on potential signings are a positive on this front. Callum has to improve in several areas of management for me to change my view on him, jury's out at the minute. 

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21 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

Big window coming up. Has to be a good few heading out the door and possibly only 1/2 coming in ? 

Trim the excess and maybe add a little bit more quality (ideally younger).

Heard we have been heavily linked to an ex player. 

Have to think Mahon and MOH are absolute certs to leave, one way or another.

Max needs to get loaned out aswell for regular games at some level too, for me. Not entirely sure about Bairs situation. He could probably do with regular games too but hes started having an impact off the bench and we're incredibly short up front.

I could see a situation where Mahon/Gallacher/MOH/Murphy/Max all leave in some form, and we bring in say Shaughnessy and Paton.

Ideally Mahon/Gallacher/Max would be loans to "prove themselves" and we dont just cut ties with young players before they get that chance. Shaughnessy is a good age, good experience, fits every CB role in a back 3 + allows McGowan into midfield, and also gives us a safe fall back if we lose Mitchell. Feels a no brainer to go after him.

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20 hours ago, big al said:

All the fans who were greeting for Davidson (double winning manager) to be removed all seemed to have vanished. 
 

I think this is wishful thinking I'm afraid, I'm not seeing or hearing anyone munching on humble pie.

For me there have been 3 massive areas of concern; the ability to motivate the players, squad building and tactics.

On the first I'm delighted to since that day in Kelty he does seem to have strength in the dressing room. No shortage of spirit in this team, although bringing in old, experienced pros and vocal leaders (Mitchell) has probably played a part too. As others have said the squad is far from convincing although we do have better quality in some areas, and did better than expected in replacing Zander. As @tree house tamsaid we've ridden our luck a couple of times and got some breaks we might not have last year, and I'll also admit that we're marginally better to watch as we're scoring more.

So better, but the jury is still very much out for me. It would be interesting to see what a new owner would to if we have a season like last year.

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