Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Any player that doesn’t agree with it, or who feels upset that it’s too much criticism should be binned. 

His issue will be there's bound to be players who think his set up is exposing their flaws and aren't enjoying it, and that resentment will build when he identifies player performance as the issue and not the set up.

Murray Davidson is being asked to take the ball off the defence and build attacks, hold his position in the middle of the park, and track the movement of opposing strikers/10s.

Do you think he enjoys that and the criticism that comes his way when he's shit at it?

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

Agree with this. There isn't much he can say at the moment that will keep fans happy, but that itself is a bit of an indication with where fens feelings are. How to get the fans back onside is by winning games, getting us to still be in this league next season and show something to the fans that given them hope that next season will not be another shitshow. This will also need some structural changes at club and in non manager coaching staff. 

While I think he is running fast out of road, he is not there yet. Keep us up and he isn't getting sacked, no matter how fans feel. If that happens and we see better on the park next season, we'd all be happier. Best solution all round is that this is what happens and we all look back at 21/22 as a blip and maybe something thst needed to happen, bit of a reality check for club and fans. Anyway, I HOPE that is what happens. 

For me I can accept us getting relegated, I can accept managers having poor spells, and I can accept a rookie manager making mistakes, if I can see both progression in them/the club and a plan for the future.

It's 2 years in and I've only seen regression in most factors.

Tactically I liked how we played when Davidson came in, it was nice to have a style of play and it was nice to see us playing high up the park. We done f**k all up there but I assumed the next step for him was working out a way to get us chances that wasn't just overloads out wide then crosses. But that step never came. Now we don't even play up the park but still rely on wide overloads and crosses. The majority of his time in charge has now been the more negative, aimless, style and he shows little signs he has any idea how to change it.

In terms of recruitment I gave him some leeway with the first window due to Covid, then the 2nd as January is shit to deal with. I thought last Summer he could use his contacts down South and get some exciting younger players in to help us return to where we were at the start of the season, as our style had completely regressed by the end of the season. But he didn't do anything to improve the squad short or long term. Instead we got multi-year deals chucked at undeserving players in Brown, MOH and May based entirely on him wanting continuity rather than them actually earning it. The centre of the park has bugged me for years, even back into TW times, and it's ridiculous that wasn't a priority last Summer even with McCann in the squad, as we all knew he was gone soon. I think TW would've gone for Jason Holt permanently if he'd stayed, or Matt Butcher, but instead we got an ancient Craig Bryson (who was a good player who done well for us last season, but he shouldn't have gotten a second year).

I could accept the loan of Crawford. We needed a back up to Wotherspoon in that attacking role and as a back up who only plays occasionally then Crawford wasn't the worst 6/12 month option to tide us over until he found better. Then we hit September and he signed him permanently on a multi-year deal, why?

The farcical situation where we sign players, give them a run of games, then let them vanish is another worrying development to his management. Muller/Dendoncker/Ambrose/Brown/Butterfield all proclaimed as first teamers and played religiously, then suddenly vanish. That's ignoring Mahon/Devine/Vertainen/Bair who either get ignored or get a single chance. To me this is scattergun panic management, and reeks of someone hoping changing players sorts things because he doesn't know how to change anything else.

January was a better window as we got in players of a good age and you could see why most of them were targeted in terms of fitting in, even if they arent good enough in the end you could see the logic, but the system that allowed the club to identify and approach these players before January is now gone. I hope Davidson has learned from previous mistakes by seeing what a poor window does and what a planned for window does, but it seems like hes still pushing the line that hes not to blame for recruitment issues so im not holding out much hope. A PCA signing or two would ease my mind.

So aye, I've tried my best to give Davidson chances and make excuses for him. But to me he's starting to look very much a short term success type like your John Hughes. Can come in, get a good squad performing and look exciting, but long term he's one dimensional and he can't build a squad, so ultimately nothing he's involved in will ever last. That's why I think we need to move on from him, long term hes going to be a problem for us, and he already is as hes tied us too long to folk like Brown, Booth, MacPherson, Crawford, MOH and May, so the quicker you move on the quicker you can start rectifying the mistakes.

So theres my rant, with the caveat I've had about 4hrs sleep in the last month, as I'm bored of this idea that anyone who wants Davidson out isn't giving him a fair chance and is just agenda driven.

Edited May 4, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[andrewh]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

His issue will be there's bound to be players who think his set up is exposing their flaws and aren't enjoying it, and that resentment will build when he identifies player performance as the issue and not the set up.

Murray Davidson is being asked to take the ball off the defence and build attacks, hold his position in the middle of the park, and track the movement of opposing strikers/10s.

Do you think he enjoys that and the criticism that comes his way when he's shit at it?

Can you imagine if Steve Bright was on here or wap? He is infuriating. Pretentious. Condescending. Patronising. Talking down to fans for having an opinion contrary to his own. How dare you criticise CD, players or the club. And creator of the embarrassment that is supersaint.

[The Saintee]

9 minutes ago, andrewh said:

Can you imagine if Steve Bright was on here or wap? He is infuriating. Pretentious. Condescending. Patronising. Talking down to fans for having an opinion contrary to his own. How dare you criticise CD, players or the club. And creator of the embarrassment that is supersaint.

Who's Steve Bright?

[Fife Saint]

I think he draws cartoons.

[tree house tam]

1 hour ago, The Saintee said:

Who's Steve Bright?

A guy that mucks about drawing things.

[PSJ.84]

1 hour ago, The Saintee said:

Who's Steve Bright?

If you go on the banter page you’ll find out pretty quickly…

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Happy? No. Clapper? Always.

[Costanza]

3 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

It was dreadful, and we have to be a lot better in the next 3 or 5 matches. The manager knows it and the players know it as well.

Does the manager know it? We've been dreadful all season and he's done nothing to try and remedy that. Saturday wasn't some random one off wake up call. There's been loads of them and we're still sleeping. He thinks we've been playing well recently.

[Radford]

Always preferred Morris Heggie anyway. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

15 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

For me I can accept us getting relegated, I can accept managers having poor spells, and I can accept a rookie manager making mistakes, if I can see both progression in them/the club and a plan for the future.

It's 2 years in and I've only seen regression in most factors.

Tactically I liked how we played when Davidson came in, it was nice to have a style of play and it was nice to see us playing high up the park. We done f**k all up there but I assumed the next step for him was working out a way to get us chances that wasn't just overloads out wide then crosses. But that step never came. Now we don't even play up the park but still rely on wide overloads and crosses. The majority of his time in charge has now been the more negative, aimless, style and he shows little signs he has any idea how to change it.

In terms of recruitment I gave him some leeway with the first window due to Covid, then the 2nd as January is shit to deal with. I thought last Summer he could use his contacts down South and get some exciting younger players in to help us return to where we were at the start of the season, as our style had completely regressed by the end of the season. But he didn't do anything to improve the squad short or long term. Instead we got multi-year deals chucked at undeserving players in Brown, MOH and May based entirely on him wanting continuity rather than them actually earning it. The centre of the park has bugged me for years, even back into TW times, and it's ridiculous that wasn't a priority last Summer even with McCann in the squad, as we all knew he was gone soon. I think TW would've gone for Jason Holt permanently if he'd stayed, or Matt Butcher, but instead we got an ancient Craig Bryson (who was a good player who done well for us last season, but he shouldn't have gotten a second year).

I could accept the loan of Crawford. We needed a back up to Wotherspoon in that attacking role and as a back up who only plays occasionally then Crawford wasn't the worst 6/12 month option to tide us over until he found better. Then we hit September and he signed him permanently on a multi-year deal, why?

The farcical situation where we sign players, give them a run of games, then let them vanish is another worrying development to his management. Muller/Dendoncker/Ambrose/Brown/Butterfield all proclaimed as first teamers and played religiously, then suddenly vanish. That's ignoring Mahon/Devine/Vertainen/Bair who either get ignored or get a single chance. To me this is scattergun panic management, and reeks of someone hoping changing players sorts things because he doesn't know how to change anything else.

January was a better window as we got in players of a good age and you could see why most of them were targeted in terms of fitting in, even if they arent good enough in the end you could see the logic, but the system that allowed the club to identify and approach these players before January is now gone. I hope Davidson has learned from previous mistakes by seeing what a poor window does and what a planned for window does, but it seems like hes still pushing the line that hes not to blame for recruitment issues so im not holding out much hope. A PCA signing or two would ease my mind.

So aye, I've tried my best to give Davidson chances and make excuses for him. But to me he's starting to look very much a short term success type like your John Hughes. Can come in, get a good squad performing and look exciting, but long term he's one dimensional and he can't build a squad, so ultimately nothing he's involved in will ever last. That's why I think we need to move on from him, long term hes going to be a problem for us, and he already is as hes tied us too long to folk like Brown, Booth, MacPherson, Crawford, MOH and May, so the quicker you move on the quicker you can start rectifying the mistakes.

So theres my rant, with the caveat I've had about 4hrs sleep in the last month, as I'm bored of this idea that anyone who wants Davidson out isn't giving him a fair chance and is just agenda driven.

You could be describing Hughes with that whole post, scary.

[PauloPerth]

14 hours ago, Costanza said:

Does the manager know it? 

 

22 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

 

I would say if these quotes are correct then yes, it sounds as if he's aware that Saturday wasn't good enough.

[Costanza]

We'll see on Saturday if he tries anything even remotely different I guess.  

[mizfit]

We'll see on Saturday if he tries anything even remotely different I guess.  

He’s chosen to stick and gotten nowhere. I guess the only thing we’ve left is changing it and hoping it works

[Kyle]

59 minutes ago, Costanza said:

We'll see on Saturday if he tries anything even remotely different I guess.  

Would be a first time for everything I suppose. 

no doubt the same issues with remain. Same shape that doesn’t suit the players, Ciftci and Crawford will both start and the players he wanted that we paid a fortune for won’t be near the starting 11. 

[PauloPerth]

I think he’s stuck himself in a corner in terms of fear that big changes will be disastrous.  Now 10th is all but gone, I expect we’ll try to stumble our way to 11th with draws and hope Dundee don’t suddenly find a win.  

If Dundee do sneak a win, and it’s not as if they’ve chucked it and are getting pumped each week, then the last match or two will be tense..

[Steve McQueen]

Have we thought about, maybe, getting players into the opposing box & scoring some goals?

[RandomGuy.]

The changes he's on about will be Mahon and Bair in for Sang and Ciftci, IMO.

A shuffling of the deck that doesn't change any underlying issue.

[PSJ.84]

 

42 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

The changes he's on about will be Mahon and Bair in for Sang and Ciftci, IMO.

A shuffling of the deck that doesn't change any underlying issue.

Hard to judge based on what he’s actually played, but is Mahon what we’re after on the right of the back three? I’d always just assumed he’s more in the Gordon mould, based on that half hour or so at Livi

[RandomGuy.]

40 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

Hard to judge based on what he’s actually played, but is Mahon what we’re after on the right of the back three? I’d always just assumed he’s more in the Gordon mould, based on that half hour or so at Livi

Data wise he was a Gordon type at Sligo, certainly wasn't bringing the ball out of defence anyway. Not sure if that means he can't play that way or not tbh as I've never really bothered to watch much of him.