Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[PauloPerth]

34 minutes ago, Widge said:

I said this as I watched yesterday that Davidson’s subs only weakened us, I can’t remember a game he’s positively influenced in a long time. 

Same. Think the point was made last night that his whole reaction is simply swap players and hope something different happens.

Did he really think Stevie May and Glenn Middleton, with barely a good performance between them this season, were going to come on and change that?!

I thought the same yesterday as somebody posted earlier, that it was bizarre that Brown, without an attacking bone in his body, is rwb against Kelty when MOH starts there against a really good attacking side in midweek where a draw would have been a fine result.

Yesterday was a day to be braver, and the fact that he couldn’t bring himself to do it at any stage suggests it will never happen.  

He’s always made decisions over selections and tactics that people could question, but last season nearly everything went right, whereas this one nearly all of them have gone wrong.  Strange how it’s turned so completely on it’s head.

The fatty shouting in McCarts face to f**k off to Dundee as he walked up the steps is nonsense. He’s been poor all season, but I don’t agree with the not trying narrative. He was exceptional last year, and probably made to look even better in that outstanding defence.  Maybe this year is just more his actual level, or once the confidence was gone he’s a shadow of his former self.

[coprolite]

9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

If we offer him a new deal on the same terms he's currently on or better, then a development fee will come into play. Not sure how much this will be though - he's been with us since he was a child.

The development fee is the lowest you can get. A tribunal could decide that compensation at a higher level should be payable. 

Dev fee table is badly copied below. Depends on what division you were in when he was a given age and would be £51k to £70k.

 

Maximum Age during the 
Development Contribution 
Year or part Development 
Contribution Year for which 
Development Contribution 
claimed
Amount applicable to 
any Season in which 
the Club concerned 
was a member of the 
SPL or is a member of 
the Premiership
Amount applicable to 
any season in which the 
Club concerned was a 
member of the SFL or is 
a member of the 
Championship, League 
One or League Two
11 £5000 NIL
12 £5000 £3000
13 £5000 £3000
14 £5000 £3000
15 £10,000 £6000
16 £10,000 £9000
17 £10,000 £9000
18 £10,000 £9000
19 £10,000 £9000

[Dee Bliss]

🗣 Champions again ole, ole….

[PauloPerth]

We need a nasty aggressive b*****d for centre midfield.  A ball winner. Someone who will not only get torn in about the opposition, but will also grab some of the shitbags around him by the throat if they are not doing their jobs.

Throw money at it if we are to have any chance of survival.  Not a fringe on the periphery type like MacPherson or Crawford, but a main man to dictate things.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 hour ago, Widge said:

I held off from posting last night for a variety of reasons. Having stood there in the cold and the rain watching what was on the pitch my first thought was how little effort there was from the majority of the team and coaching staff. Davidson made a point of thanking the fans after the game and whilst the young lads were once again excellent, where I was, was anything but. I don’t think anyone in the saints end actually expected to win and that speaks for itself. 
. 

I was actually very surprised at how quiet and subdued the whole Saints crowd was - it’s not usually like that at all at a ‘big’ away day.

Reflecting on the scenes at the end, the way certain fans conducted themselves was a disgrace tbh. Probably the worst was the fat speccy guy having a go at a photographer, genuinely embarrassing stuff. I think booing the team off would’ve been acceptable but the abuse was too far tbh.

James Brown is being hung out to dry playing that RWB role, it’s ridiculous. He got the ball a number of times in promising situations and did absolutely f**k all with it. Can’t beat a man, no inventiveness, crossing poor.

Crawford, I don’t know what to say about. I actually didn’t think he was especially bad yesterday and looked the most likely to score (hit the bar second half and drew a good save first half). However what annoys me is how waif-like he is and how easily he is pushed off the ball. He’s a professional athlete ffs, go to the fucking gym. Just really irrationally irritates me how scrawny he is, same with Tanser when he was here. 

Kelty’s tactics were pretty intelligent. They brought on two energetic, pacy forwards towards the end who stretched the game and caught us on the counter. The difference in how dangerous they looked in comparison to May & Middleton was stark. 

I’m not really sure where we go from here, there’s zero creativity in the team without Wotherspoon. As has already been mentioned, this system is shite and doesn’t suit the players.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Bonksy+HisChristianParade

[Coventry Saint]

53 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

If we offer him a new deal on the same terms he's currently on or better, then a development fee will come into play. Not sure how much this will be though - he's been with us since he was a child.

Surely we didn't need to recall him in order to offer him that deal, though? 

Don't get me wrong, as a piece of shithousery I think it's wonderful. It just seems a bit OTT. 

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

Surely we didn't need to recall him in order to offer him that deal, though? 

Don't get me wrong, as a piece of shithousery I think it's wonderful. It just seems a bit OTT. 

You'd have to have offered him the deal before now.

You'd already be guaranteed compensation money from us in this Summer, this is entirely about trying to get more than that this month by taking advantage of our situation.

[djchapsticks]

5 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

Surely we didn't need to recall him in order to offer him that deal, though? 

Don't get me wrong, as a piece of shithousery I think it's wonderful. It just seems a bit OTT. 

More a case of forcing Saintees' hand I feel. As I said earlier, if we were troubling the area that Motherwell or Hearts or something currently find themselves in, then it would be a bit shite but the fact is that we're both in a relegation battle so I can fully understand the reasoning.

End of the day, the recall in January option is there for a reason and works two ways - if St. Johnstone didn't want him, they'd have sent him back without a second thought.

[Lang Toon Saintee]

16 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

Surely we didn't need to recall him in order to offer him that deal, though? 

Don't get me wrong, as a piece of shithousery I think it's wonderful. It just seems a bit OTT. 

This brinkmanship could go either way..If we decide not to pay a fee in this window then (as most contracts run until the end of June ) St Mirren will end up paying his wages for five months when he really is surplus to their requirements. 

[FTOF]

8 minutes ago, Lang Toon Saintee said:

This brinkmanship could go either way..If we decide not to pay a fee in this window then (as most contracts run until the end of June ) St Mirren will end up paying his wages for five months when he really is surplus to their requirements. 

MacPherson is one of our lowest paid players.

The club obviously think that any financial outlay is worth depriving a relegation rival of his services, if you pass on paying a suitable fee.

[Coventry Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lang Toon Saintee said:

This brinkmanship could go either way..If we decide not to pay a fee in this window then (as most contracts run until the end of June ) St Mirren will end up paying his wages for five months when he really is surplus to their requirements. 

Yeah, fair. I guess that's probably quite a minimal risk from out point of view.

[Sainthearted]

14 hours ago, Zamora Fan said:

I know people have differing views on who’s to blame for our mess in terms of chairman, players etc etc but out of interest, is there anyone on here who still doesn’t think the manager should be sacked tonight? Even anyone who thinks he deserves the Dundee game? Genuinely interested to hear opposing views.

I’ve been patient with this manager and this squad but that’s it for me, today was pathetic. The two things that made me think there’s no coming back was the way every single sub and change he made today (from Kane and Ciftci off for May and Middleton all the way thro to the nonsense with taking off O’Halloran for Craig so we had a back 4 with Cleary at right back??) made us even worse than we were before it. Kelty not as good as I expected but they grew into the game because we worsened with every sub or tactical tweak, winner not a massive surprise when it came. They should have scored at least 2 more.

The second thing was how much the players mostly seemed to just chuck it. They aren’t playing for him anymore. Might be a squad with lots of absolute chancers but I think a different system and manager could get more out of them and I think they clearly know that too.

I wouldn't say I don't think he should be sacked, but I do feel there are mitigating circumstances that aren't acknowledged as often as they should be. 

I don't believe the heart of this problem (12th in the league) was losing Kerr and McCann but losing Kerr, McCann AND Wotherspoon. Whether we blame Callum for that or not, I think there's a possibility we'd be above Dundee if Spoony wasn't injured.

In our case, three good players made a few substandard players look significantly better than they are. Unfortunately, our problems have been compounded by a few established players arriving at a point where they've not longer got the legs to play at this level. It's often difficult to predict when a player will reach that point, but it's apparent that some of these players, who have brought a significant amount of success to the club and earned its loyalty, are playing one season too many. 

In some respects we've misdiagnosed the problem. It's easy to conclude a lack of goals is the product of a poor strikeforce, but the bigger problem is the lack of creativity. That's where Spoony comes in. He alone wouldn't be enough to reverse our fortunes (we were at the wrong end of the table even when he was in the team), but I'm confident we could get 8-10 goals a season out of Kane, and probably more out of Ciftci, if we had a couple of decent playmakers behind them and a ball winning midfielder. 

I think Davidson has failed tactically (that's an understatement), but we also have a head of recruitment tasked with identifying targets, so if there's a problem with transfer policy (there is) then blame must be distributed equally. Also, the timing of the sales made it next to impossible for Davidson to recover his losses. He was placed in a position where he had to rebuild the nucleus of the team and he was given a non-existent timeframe to do so (ie, McCann and Kerr were sold on deadline day). 

To whatever extent the club underestimated the influence of Kerr and McCann, I believe that's the fault of the club. Kerr was in the final year of his contract, but so is Souttar and look at Hearts. They've turned down an offer of £300k because they know he's vital to their prospects this year. They might capitulate following a higher bid, but even if they do they'll have capitulated nearly four months after we did. 

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Sainthearted said:

I'm confident we could get 8-10 goals a season out of Kane

It was a decent point until this bit, which is where you completely lost me.

We had Wotherspoon last season, and a team full to the brim of confidence, and scored less goals at home in the top division than anyone else in the entirety of time. The creative/goalscoring issue isn't new and isn't because Wotherspoon is injured, it was present last season too.

Edited January 23, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[PSJ.84]

[Kyle]

That’s John Mahon announced, two and a half year contract and we’ve paid an undisclosed fee. As I’ve said before, looks the right type of signing for us. Young, experienced, well regarded by his current club and someone we can hopefully develop to sell on or we can hang out hat on long term. Added bonus that we can now drop McCart and not have to replace him Ambrose. 
 

Midfielders, strikers and a right wing back who understands the position, plz. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Kyle

[PSJ.84]

Some of the posts on twitter are nearing banter page levels. A lot of happy clappers. 

[PSJ.84]

 

 

[McG]

2 hours ago, tree house tam said:

Yes.

[PauloPerth]

Yes 8-10 goals out of Kane is a big over-estimate, but that's one wee detail in an post otherwise full of a lot of fair points by sainthearted.

It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Spoony must contribute close to that number of goals a season, whether it be by scoring, assists or some involvement in the build up.

We have failed to replace any of our best three players from last season. We're now without arguably our fourth best for a period of time in Rooney.

But take all the surrounding details away, and you're still left with three centre backs spending most of the game passing the ball sideways between each other fairly unopposed before launching a long diagonal with little success coming from it.

Picking a team, training them and setting tactics are all part of it, but the biggest challenge is coaching during the game. Be able to analyse what is happening and make the subtle, or major, adjustments to affect the game in your favour.

Kelty figured us out well. They let our centre backs have it, only using energy on a press occasionally when it was appropriate. Sit back and basically say what have you got? to the centre backs, who didn't want to drive forward at all.

When it was obvious this was a waste of a player back there for us, it should have been changed at HT.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, PauloPerth said:

Yes 8-10 goals out of Kane is a big over-estimate, but that's one wee detail in an post otherwise full of a lot of fair points by sainthearted.

It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Spoony must contribute close to that number of goals a season, whether it be by scoring, assists or some involvement in the build up.

3 goals and 4 assists last season, when he was arguably in the best form hes ever been in. May was our highest if you combine the two, with 5 goals and 3 assists.