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Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread


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Just now, Valentino Bolognese said:

The Cammy MacPherson contract situation is hilarious. Once again Brown showing he's what some folk think a good business leader looks like, because he appears competent in running the medium-sized local builders he inherited. This is (literally) a different ball game. 

Why is Brown getting the blame (again)?

It'll be similar to Ali Crawford situation, where Davidson has rushed in to offer him a permanent deal without thinking it through. Crawford was offered a deal months ago.

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2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Why is Brown getting the blame (again)?

It'll be similar to Ali Crawford situation, where Davidson has rushed in to offer him a permanent deal without thinking it through. Crawford was offered a deal months ago.

Because he's the owner so like any organisation with that structure he sets the culture, the decision-making framework, makes the calls on key appointments and ultimately, the buck stops with him. 

That's not to absolve anyone else of any blame. Our manager, players and even our fucking groundsman are substandard but he is in the captain's chair. 

That's why. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

He's not.

OK, technically G S Brown Construction are the controlling shareholders but he's the Managing Director, it doesn't change the substantive point. 

Edit - it might actually be Geoff rather than the Ltd company that own the shares, can't remember but it's not really all that relevant. 

Edited by Valentino Bolognese
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5 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

OK, technically G S Brown Construction are the controlling shareholders but he's the Managing Director, it doesn't change the substantive point. 

Geoff Brown is still the majority shareholder. And Steve Brown's role as chairman is unpaid.

Edited by Mr Heliums
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Just now, Valentino Bolognese said:

Because he's the owner so like any organisation with that structure he sets the culture, the decision-making framework, makes the calls on key appointments and ultimately, the buck stops with him. 

That's not to absolve anyone else of any blame. Our manager, players and even our fucking groundsman are substandard but he is in the captain's chair. 

That's why. 

What?

Steve Brown spent years getting called a clown and being told to keep his nose out the football side of things as he's "just a sparky".

He hired a former footballer to oversee the whole football operation, and gave the manager complete financial support. He handed the footballing side of the club over to "experts" and took a step back, just as fans had been screeching at him to do for years.

He deserves some blame just as everyone at the club does, but the idea it's his fault alone is just daft, if you're moaning about what's happening above the manager you hit Scott Boyd first. The manager refused to use funds in the Summer, refused to bring in any replacement for Kerr even though he had weeks to prepare for his departure, chucked multi year deals at loanees before they'd even played 10 games, and has refused to admit he's making mistakes on the park and change it.

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The problem Callum Davidson faces is that when you start weighing it up, there are so many facets of his management that you can pour scrutiny on, whereas the defence is limited to past achievements that don't really provide much source for optimism in our current situation. 

He turned it round last season - by luck or design - with the introduction of a couple of new players into his system but the big difference was that despite not getting results, all the indicators pointed to a change of form. Basically we created a lot and gave little away. 

That brings us to the first aspect of his management, tactics:

The system he developed last season was good and became even better when you added the predatory instincts of Melamed and everything that Rooney offered. Wide diagonals were effective with the aerial prowess of the latter and Tanser, McCann would snap in and win the balls off those contacts. Wotherspoon understood and thrived in the inside forward position behind a main striker. Kerr advanced up the field to give the extra man you need when pressing in games but operating with a back three. 

It wasn't perfect - we didn't score enough goals - but it worked. It looked a system that the manager had developed to suit his squad, which is always encouraging, and he received plaudits for his ability as a coach. 

It was understandable that he wouldn't change much going into this season in that sense but as the team changed, so did the results. We no longer had the ability to win the first or second contact on the diagonals, nobody to pick up the ball in the pockets of space in attacking midfield and nobody to step out from defence. Yet he has persevered with the same system for now four months with no upturn in form, results or performances. Quite the opposite and it's drained the belief and confidence from the squad of players it is his job to manage. 

At some point (in my opinion about a month ago) he had to realise this wasn't working and try something different. I think the players would have relished it as much as the fans. It might not have worked straight away but it would have shown an acknowledgement and willingness to rectify a worsening situation. 

We now don't know if he can come up with something different tactically when assessing where to go from here. 

The morale of the players looks at rock bottom and that's part of his remit, to manage a group of individuals and the unit. He said yesterday that they hadn't done what he asked of them in the first 40 minutes. The problem with that is that we were so well-drilled last season and the system has hardly changed. So why aren't they doing what he says? It's hard to believe they don't understand what is being asked of them given where we were previously. Have they stopped playing for him? The reaction to going a goal behind in the defence of your trophy was as limp as it could be.

Is the bigger picture that he can't inspire players in the way some of his predecessors could? Saints have always lost their better players to clubs with greater resources but have largely avoided seeing the sort of defection witnessed with Scott Tanser's switch to St Mirren. The list of players not interested in signing a new contract under the manager is far longer than the list of those that are. 

Maybe that's purely financial and you can't judge him overly on that but you can on his business, or lack of, in the transfer market and his failure to evolve the squad he inherited. 

There is a defence, the uncertainty of the pandemic, the timing of his own arrival and most certainly the timing of the August departures of Kerr and McCann. But there is also a pretty damning case for the prosecution:

Despite the success of the team last season, at just 0.47 goals per game, Saints recorded the lowest goals per game at home of ANY club in ANY division in the HISTORY of the Scottish league... AND we lost Guy Melamed. Yet this summer the manager made no proven additions to his striking options that he was clearly going to be happy with. How did he think that was going to work out? 

Tanser was replaced with a young loanee with no experience and the potential sale of Kerr was prepared for in the same manner. Loans have been the order of the day until this month, when it's potentially too late in any case. 

The advantages of Saints making a change now are you hope it lifts the players, we see something different tactically to surprise the opposition and you have a few days left to recruit some reinforcements with a lot of scouting having been done on potential players by others at the club. 

Sad to say but what are the potential disadvantages? I think when you get to the stage where you ask yourself if it can get any worse, you probably already know the answer to both that and whether the manager should remain in his role... 

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19 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It reads pretty shite from St Mirren tbh, taking advantage of a side on their knees for a quick buck is poor especially when the agreement was he'd be with us for a season and St Mirren have no intention of playing him. But that's football and if the loan agreement meant St Mirren could recall him this month without our permission then anyone with a brain could've anticipated this.

If we were in position of Hearts or Motherwell I'd maybe be inclined to agree.

As it stands at this point in time though, you are our relegation rivals so it fully makes sense to take this approach.

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Just now, djchapsticks said:

If we were in position of Hearts or Motherwell I'd maybe be inclined to agree.

As it stands at this point in time though, you are our relegation rivals so it fully makes sense to take this approach.

Oh yeah I'd expect every club to do the same tbh.

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Just now, RandomGuy. said:

What?

Steve Brown spent years getting called a clown and being told to keep his nose out the football side of things as he's "just a sparky".

He hired a former footballer to oversee the whole football operation, and gave the manager complete financial support. He handed the footballing side of the club over to "experts" and took a step back, just as fans had been screeching at him to do for years.

He deserves some blame just as everyone at the club does, but the idea it's his fault alone is just daft, if you're moaning about what's happening above the manager you hit Scott Boyd first. The manager refused to use funds in the Summer, refused to bring in any replacement for Kerr even though he had weeks to prepare for his departure, chucked multi year deals at loanees before they'd even played 10 games, and has refused to admit he's making mistakes on the park and change it.

I went out of my way to say it wasn't his fault alone. It never is. Unlike you I don't know who made what decisions and when. 

Ultimately someone sets the direction of the business, makes significant financial decisions and puts the senior team in place. I had understood that to be S Brown. If it's not, I'll go sit in the corner for a while. 

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9 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

But Steve's in charge of day to day running of the club is he not? That's the impression that's been given in the media.

He is. Only  because Geoff can't handle that. If you think for one second that Geoff doesn't get asked about any major or fairly big decisions then you are wrong, he does. 

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1 hour ago, djchapsticks said:

According to JG he's already agreed a contract with St. Johnstone. Our obligation is now to just offer him a minimum of what he's already on with us to get a development fee. Either that or we agree a fee with St. Johnstone for him to leave now which is most certainly our intention here.

We should only pay a fee if you agree to keep him. 

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1 hour ago, djchapsticks said:

According to JG he's already agreed a contract with St. Johnstone. Our obligation is now to just offer him a minimum of what he's already on with us to get a development fee. Either that or we agree a fee with St. Johnstone for him to leave now which is most certainly our intention here.

You could keep him and we will give you a minibus? 

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3 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

I went out of my way to say it wasn't his fault alone. It never is. Unlike you I don't know who made what decisions and when. 

Ultimately someone sets the direction of the business, makes significant financial decisions and puts the senior team in place. I had understood that to be S Brown. If it's not, I'll go sit in the corner for a while. 

Honestly I'm just bored of this need to blame everyone else apart from the main issue. Even Steven MacLean is getting it now for "not being able to coach strikers". Maybe our strikers don't score because they spent 90% of their fucking time chasing full backs down the park then 90% of their chances are coming from hopeless crosses into the box against CBs twice their size.

The manager could resolve many, many, issues by simply playing to his players strengths. The fact he's not is on him alone.

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