Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Jacksgranda]

O.K

[Caballero]

Championship is your level, diddy wee club.

[Lang Toon Saintee]

52 minutes ago, Caballero said:

Championship is your level, diddy wee club.

You took the time and effort to.post that.!?

[Zamora Fan]

Worth prefixing this with the fact I didn’t see all of yesterday’s game and wasn’t there. From what I did see there was a bit more desire/effort etc from most players (Craig back in made a difference) but with the same issues we’ve had all season - lack of bravery on the ball, no real attempt to commit players forward until it’s too late, aimlessness on the rare occasions we got near the box. My thoughts are really contradictory in terms of what we do with the manager and how much trouble we are in.. so going to lay them out in no particular order as a form of therapy.

- If this was Davidson’s first season I don’t think there would be any doubt whatsoever that he should be sacked, and indeed I think even a patient owner like S Brown would have jettisoned Davidson after the loss at Dens.

- Of course, it isn’t his first season. Last year we had a poor start to the season results-wise and then went on a run, finished top six and won both cups. A remarkable achievement that whatever happens this year should not be reduced to “got lucky from set-pieces” as I’ve seen from some understandably angry fans on here. That has earned the manager credit in the bank that he is currently spending at an alarming rate, because this is probably one of the worst St Johnstone teams I’ve ever seen in a lot of different ways.

- Despite that, I’m in the camp that doesn’t think CD will get us relegated with a bare minimum bit of transfer activity, which I would class as Butterfield and someone like Jamie Walker in.

- I think this because teams with a good defense normally stay up. That is Callum’s biggest strength, we have good defenders and they are well organised. They come under too much pressure and we’re losing games by the odd goal because that’s just the way football works, invite pressure and you eventually concede without the defense necessarily doing too much wrong. But equally I think we’ll probably nick points - I.e yesterday we get a draw v a decent Aberdeen team if ref spots a blatant hand ball. So I think as it stands we could probably grind our way to 10th ish in a tight relegation battle.

- If we do the above, I don’t think that’s an acceptable season. Grinding out survival with genuinely eye bleeding football? Barely creating a chance game to game? It’s completely grim and unnecessary because this is a decent squad. There are issues with recruitment etc obviously but I don’t really think the players are the problem.

- So there has to be a change between now and the end of the season in the system or at least the way we play. He either needs to recruit players for it and find a way to get us scoring goals or change it up because even if we survive it’s not good enough. If we stay up by the skin of our teeth with another record breaking season of non-goal scoring, I think it would be best for us to part ways with the manager in the summer.

- But in the short term, he needs to be given the chance to keep us up and improve things. I don’t want us to become Leicester, binning Ranieri after they won the league. It’s a shitty, tasteless thing to do. Clearly things aren’t working, but unless things are truly beyond hope in terms of survival he shouldn’t be sacked this season imo. I think there should be room for sentiment in football because what’s the point of it otherwise? No Uber-capitalist realism here for me please.

- In saying that however, we can’t afford to be relegated. So if we’re adrift post January-business Brown will need to make a decision. That’s where I am.

- Also, the head of recruitment needs to take charge because right now our key player is Craig Bryson. I really like him, he’s a super tidy player but we can’t rely on him to stay injury free and he obviously isn’t a long term solution. So many areas of the team need to be addressed.

[tree house tam]

 

2 hours ago, Caballero said:

Championship is your level, diddy wee club.

Perth St Johnstone party all the time...

Dundee not so much.

[PauloPerth]

49 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

Worth prefixing this with the fact I didn’t see all of yesterday’s game and wasn’t there. From what I did see there was a bit more desire/effort etc from most players (Craig back in made a difference) but with the same issues we’ve had all season - lack of bravery on the ball, no real attempt to commit players forward until it’s too late, aimlessness on the rare occasions we got near the box. My thoughts are really contradictory in terms of what we do with the manager and how much trouble we are in.. so going to lay them out in no particular order as a form of therapy.

- If this was Davidson’s first season I don’t think there would be any doubt whatsoever that he should be sacked, and indeed I think even a patient owner like S Brown would have jettisoned Davidson after the loss at Dens.

- Of course, it isn’t his first season. Last year we had a poor start to the season results-wise and then went on a run, finished top six and won both cups. A remarkable achievement that whatever happens this year should not be reduced to “got lucky from set-pieces” as I’ve seen from some understandably angry fans on here. That has earned the manager credit in the bank that he is currently spending at an alarming rate, because this is probably one of the worst St Johnstone teams I’ve ever seen in a lot of different ways.

- Despite that, I’m in the camp that doesn’t think CD will get us relegated with a bare minimum bit of transfer activity, which I would class as Butterfield and someone like Jamie Walker in.

- I think this because teams with a good defense normally stay up. That is Callum’s biggest strength, we have good defenders and they are well organised. They come under too much pressure and we’re losing games by the odd goal because that’s just the way football works, invite pressure and you eventually concede without the defense necessarily doing too much wrong. But equally I think we’ll probably nick points - I.e yesterday we get a draw v a decent Aberdeen team if ref spots a blatant hand ball. So I think as it stands we could probably grind our way to 10th ish in a tight relegation battle.

- If we do the above, I don’t think that’s an acceptable season. Grinding out survival with genuinely eye bleeding football? Barely creating a chance game to game? It’s completely grim and unnecessary because this is a decent squad. There are issues with recruitment etc obviously but I don’t really think the players are the problem.

- So there has to be a change between now and the end of the season in the system or at least the way we play. He either needs to recruit players for it and find a way to get us scoring goals or change it up because even if we survive it’s not good enough. If we stay up by the skin of our teeth with another record breaking season of non-goal scoring, I think it would be best for us to part ways with the manager in the summer.

- But in the short term, he needs to be given the chance to keep us up and improve things. I don’t want us to become Leicester, binning Ranieri after they won the league. It’s a shitty, tasteless thing to do. Clearly things aren’t working, but unless things are truly beyond hope in terms of survival he shouldn’t be sacked this season imo. I think there should be room for sentiment in football because what’s the point of it otherwise? No Uber-capitalist realism here for me please.

- In saying that however, we can’t afford to be relegated. So if we’re adrift post January-business Brown will need to make a decision. That’s where I am.

- Also, the head of recruitment needs to take charge because right now our key player is Craig Bryson. I really like him, he’s a super tidy player but we can’t rely on him to stay injury free and he obviously isn’t a long term solution. So many areas of the team need to be addressed.

You make a lot of good points, and I agree I still think Davidson will keep us up.  Defence is key, a solid foundation to grind out results from.

Theres also time. Having this shite spell in the first half of the season with a window to bring players in helps massively.

The only point I disagree with you on is we are a decent squad. Other than goalkeeper and 3 defenders, I think we have a mediocre squad at best.

Which brings me onto my final point. If we do see this through and stay up, there shouldn’t be any smug comments from the chairman and manager about how folk doubted them and panicked etc unnecessarily.

Where we are right now; squad, performances and results wise, after where we were at at the end of last season is an absolute disgrace.

[RandomGuy.]

52 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

Also, the head of recruitment needs to take charge because right now our key player is Craig Bryson. I really like him, he’s a super tidy player but we can’t rely on him to stay injury free and he obviously isn’t a long term solution. So many areas of the team need to be addressed.

I guess it depends on how the "system" all works.

If the manager and HOR are both trying to find players to sign then who gets the final say on who you choose? Scott Boyd?

[RandomGuy.]

25 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

You make a lot of good points, and I agree I still think Davidson will keep us up.  Defence is key, a solid foundation to grind out results from.

I'm not sure we'll get away with that this season. It's no use getting 2 draws from 3 games, then 1 win from 3, if the teams around you are winning 2 from 6.

County and Dundee actively go out to win games and get their rewards for that. Livi are the team we're competing against but they're better at grinding out result and already have a gap between us.

There's nobody you look at and think they'll have a few runs of 5/6 games without picking up points like we usually have in this division so just slogging away won't cut it. Thinking we can just half arse our way to safety is the same arrogance that caused us to be in this situation.

Edited December 12, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[The Saintee]

So  are we hoping that Butterfield and Cleary are Lidl's Kerr and McCann?

[Zamora Fan]

I'm not sure we'll get away with that this season. It's no use getting 2 draws from 3 games, then 1 win from 3, if the teams around you are winning 2 from 6.
County and Dundee actively go out to win games and get their rewards for that. Livi are the team we're competing against but they're better at grinding out result and already have a gap between us.

I think it’s about ensuring we take the 5/6 points from 6 games consistently from now until season end. Sure, the other teams may win 2/3 games from 6 - but then they could easily have a run where they lose 3/4 in a row and only take a couple of points at best from 6 games. That leaves us with a consistently shite grinding strategy better off.

Say over next 18 games (split into 3 6s)

We take 5 points from 6, 6 points from 6 and 5 points from last 6. We earn 16 points

Livi take 7 points from 6, 1 point from 6 and 4 points from final 6. They take 12 points and we finish above them.

The key is ensuring we avoid any long losing runs which I suspect one of the other teams will go on.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

I think it’s about ensuring we take the 5/6 points from 6 games consistently from now until season end. Sure, the other teams may win 2/3 games from 6 - but then they could easily have a run where they lose 3/4 in a row and only take a couple of points at best from 6 games. That leaves us with a consistently shite grinding strategy better off.

Say over next 18 games (split into 3 6s)

We take 5 points from 6, 6 points from 6 and 5 points from last 6. We earn 16 points

Livi take 7 points from 6, 1 point from 6 and 4 points from final 6. They take 12 points and we finish above them.

The key is ensuring we avoid any long losing runs which I suspect one of the other teams will go on.

Aye but the problem is we don't seem capable of grinding out points.

Only Hibs have less points than us over the last 12 games and we've been very defensive in that time. 

[mizfit]

Went into the club shop yesterday.
Am I the only one surprised the clubs not yet released a DVD about the cup finals?

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Who buys DVDs or owns a DVD player in this day and age?

[tree house tam]

47 minutes ago, mizfit said:

Went into the club shop yesterday.
Am I the only one surprised the clubs not yet released a DVD about the cup finals?

Settle doon grandad.

[Zamora Fan]

Aye but the problem is we don't seem capable of grinding out points.
Only Hibs have less points than us over the last 12 games and we've been very defensive in that time. 

I disagree. We’ve been dreadful all season but still have 5 points from our last 6 games. We were pretty unlucky not to take at least a point or two more in those games too despite being chronic going forward - that’s what the solid base will give you.

We’ve lost 3 in a row. The key to whether we go down or not is whether we can take at least 2/3 points out of the next 3 games (Rangers A, Motherwell A, Ross County H). If we don’t then we start to look like a team that’s destined to go down rather than just being a poor team in a relegation fight. If the former is where we end up then we’re left to rely on the January window to pull us out of a hole which.

Fwiw as I think helpful to look at the season in 6 game bursts:

First six games:
Ross county A - draw
Motherwell H - draw
Dundee U H - L
St Mirren A - draw
Rangers H - L
Aberdeen A - W
= 6 points

Second six
Hibs A - L
Dundee H - W
Livi H - L
Celtic A - L
Hearts H - D
Dundee U A - W
= 7 points

Third six so far
St Mirren H - D
Hibs H - L
Dundee A - L
Aberdeen H - L
Rangers A - ?
Motherwell A - ?


If most of our six game bursts follow the pattern of the first/second set rather than third, we’ll be shite, but we’ll also be fine.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

2 hours ago, mizfit said:

Went into the club shop yesterday.
Am I the only one surprised the clubs not yet released a DVD about the cup finals?

No, no you are not

[THE FAT MAN]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm not sure we'll get away with that this season. It's no use getting 2 draws from 3 games, then 1 win from 3, if the teams around you are winning 2 from 6.

County and Dundee actively go out to win games and get their rewards for that. Livi are the team we're competing against but they're better at grinding out result and already have a gap between us.

There's nobody you look at and think they'll have a few runs of 5/6 games without picking up points like we usually have in this division so just slogging away won't cut it. Thinking we can just half arse our way to safety is the same arrogance that caused us to be in this situation.

St.Mirren 

[Dick Van Dyke]

Has anyone noticed how poor our defending was for Aberdeen’s goal yesterday? Yes it was a handball but the ball only fell to Jenks because two of our players went for the same ball resulting in a poor header straight to Jenks. 

[Jacksgranda]

You'd think if it had been a hand ball someone would have mentioned it by now...

[afc_blockhead]

10 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

You'd think if it had been a hand ball someone would have mentioned it by now...

Very true

62% possession , 6 more shots , 2 more shots on target from the away team. 

Deserved win. St Johnstone fans should worry more (as RandomGuy does to be fair) that they dont try to attack almost at all!