Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[templeofsaints]

2 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said:

Am I just being cynical here or is “football department “ carefully worded in that statement. Not playing squad, not transfer fees but football department. Football department could could cover a broad range of things 

Yes - probably covers a bit more investment in things like the youth academy, coaching, scouting, contract renewals as well as potential future transfer fees. That's fair enough.  

Its a good statement - possibly should have been put out earlier. 

[PauloPerth]

Good for fans to hear, but you don't want to advertise to readily to selling clubs that we're going to be throwing cash around.

Think January we might also see one or more of Zander, Rooney or MCart move on for small fees to avoid losing all of them for nothing at the end of the season.

We've done some decent business in the past in the January window, so have to hope we have down all the background work so we can make a few permanent signings.

If we end up seeing a few more 3-2 wins instead of 1-0 over the next few months, then there won't be many complaints, but feel there's a heck of an expectation built up around E2 now, made worse by the delay.

[mizfit]

Yes - probably covers a bit more investment in things like the youth academy, coaching, scouting, contract renewals as well as potential future transfer fees. That's fair enough.  
Its a good statement - possibly should have been put out earlier. 

If the backlash wasn’t as bad as it was he’d have kept his mouth shut.

Instead, he’s tried to ride out the storm and realised it’ll be a constant stick to beat him with and has released that statement.

That could, and should have been explained at the time.

[templeofsaints]

2 minutes ago, mizfit said:

 

If the backlash wasn’t as bad as it was he’d have kept his mouth shut.

Instead, he’s tried to ride out the storm and realised it’ll be a constant stick to beat him with and has released that statement.

That could, and should have been explained at the time.

 

That may be but it shows that at least the club are responding/listening to the fans. Thats definitely progress.

[steviemay17]

That statement is fair enough really, even if you don't really agree with McCann actually going, we were over a barrel, he's probably been a bit naughty in forcing the move but when does keeping an unhappy player ever actually work out well? It would've just rumbled on til January and he would've went for something similar anyway.

[FrankChickens1]

Someone suggested weeks ago that it would be Preston McCann (or was it Davidson?) would go to and I shot them down pointing out their rich owner is an absolute letch on the club funds and seems to be en route to winding them down. Seeing as they've got two bang average midfielders they paid around 2m each for, Potts and the guy now on loan at Wigan, McCann must be the type of steal even their owner would go for. 

Had some good London away days with the Preston fans back when. 

[FrankChickens1]

2 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

That statement is fair enough really, even if you don't really agree with McCann actually going, we were over a barrel, he's probably been a bit naughty in forcing the move but when does keeping an unhappy player ever actually work out well? It would've just rumbled on til January and he would've went for something similar anyway.

The other key point hidden in there is they want other players to know if they sign for saints they can move on, the FM 'stepping stone' theory. 

It's good enough logic, if we actually sign players good enough for it to be relevant to them . 

[csteinle]

Decent enough statement. Over a barrel trying to balance two very important reputations - as a place where players are nurtured and not blocked from furthering their careers and as a club that won't accept crappy fees for valuable assets.

[steviemay17]

Just now, FrankChickens1 said:

The other key point hidden in there is they want other players to know if they sign for saints they can move on, the FM 'stepping stone' theory. 

It's good enough logic, if we actually sign players good enough for it to be relevant to them . 

That is also true. It's an odd one on McCann because I really don't have an issue with him trying to get a move to further his career and make life changing money, but maybe the way it happened on the final day was poor? I guess it sounds like Preson planned it that way so we were over a barrel, but it explains the lack of an obvious replacement being ready to come in

[DukDukGoose]

32 minutes ago, Dick Van Dyke said:

Am I just being cynical here or is “football department “ carefully worded in that statement. Not playing squad, not transfer fees but football department. Football department could could cover a broad range of things 

We had a similar situation with the AberDNA funds when originally announced. Everyone assumed that meant signings but it also went in to stuff like the GSP vests and other analytical tools. 

A lot of the fans weren't happy when they found out but it really is a requirement in the modern game.

[RawB93]

2 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

That is also true. It's an odd one on McCann because I really don't have an issue with him trying to get a move to further his career and make life changing money, but maybe the way it happened on the final day was poor? I guess it sounds like Preson planned it that way so we were over a barrel, but it explains the lack of an obvious replacement being ready to come in

Surely on the last day of the window it's the buyer who should be over a barrel? 

[steviemay17]

1 minute ago, RawB93 said:

Surely on the last day of the window it's the buyer who should be over a barrel? 

Generally yes, but it depends how genuine Steve Brown is being with those comments. It sounds like McCann really wanted that move to happen, Preston were the only buyer and the whole situation had led to use feeling obliged to let him go so it was about getting what we could, and that starting position is pretty much known as "Being fully bent over while they have control of the broom handle"

[PSJ.84]

11 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

That is also true. It's an odd one on McCann because I really don't have an issue with him trying to get a move to further his career and make life changing money, but maybe the way it happened on the final day was poor? I guess it sounds like Preson planned it that way so we were over a barrel, but it explains the lack of an obvious replacement being ready to come in

The lack of replacement is the one for me. Surely can’t have been caught out by a late bid for a double winning 21 year old internationalist by a far richer club, and the player wanting the move… 

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, PSJ.84 said:

The lack of replacement is the one for me. Surely can’t have been caught out by a late bid for a double winning 21 year old internationalist by a far richer club, and the player wanting the move… 

Charlie Gilmour was apparently McCanns heir when he signed, tbf. Not that we've seen whether that'll happen or not yet tbf.

[RawB93]

5 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

Generally yes, but it depends how genuine Steve Brown is being with those comments. It sounds like McCann really wanted that move to happen, Preston were the only buyer and the whole situation had led to use feeling obliged to let him go so it was about getting what we could, and that starting position is pretty much known as "Being fully bent over while they have control of the broom handle"

Yeah that's fair enough and I suppose it depends entirely on the context of the situation. Agents are generally scumbags so it wouldn't surprise me if the potential contract was indeed dangled in front of him before any formal transfer offer. 

Developing and selling on players should be most teams bread and butter so I really do feel for yous getting somewhat mugged off. I suppose you can hope that he (and Kerr) prove themselves down there and you become a more trusted seller, so to speak, and can command higher fees in future.

January should be exciting for you at least!

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, PSJ.84 said:

The lack of replacement is the one for me. Surely can’t have been caught out by a late bid for a double winning 21 year old internationalist by a far richer club, and the player wanting the move… 

Charlie Gilmour was apparently McCanns heir when he signed, tbf. Not that we've seen whether that'll happen or not yet tbf.

[steviemay17]

6 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

Yeah that's fair enough and I suppose it depends entirely on the context of the situation. Agents are generally scumbags so it wouldn't surprise me if the potential contract was indeed dangled in front of him before any formal transfer offer. 

Developing and selling on players should be most teams bread and butter so I really do feel for yous getting somewhat mugged off. I suppose you can hope that he (and Kerr) prove themselves down there and you become a more trusted seller, so to speak, and can command higher fees in future.

January should be exciting for you at least!

I do find the agent and general tapping up thing to be weird. I can't ever find that the whole tapping up practice was suddenly allowed to happen, but we've now publicly got the Fabrizio Romano's of this world tweeting that players have agreed personal terms months before a bid is accepted so it clearly happens and Saints moaning about it isn't going to move the needle there.

My biggest issue is that we are clearly a selling club (basically anyone who isn't Man City, Real Madrid or PSG is) but we still seem to cower from that fact and don't actively try to get big fees when a player's stock is highest. We seem to sort of hide and pretend it's not happening and then be like "oh wow they've left and we didn't plan for this, how did this all happen?")

The youth system is clearly working, we can also develop players from lower divisions like Rooney and McCart, so my hope is that with the new HOR that we actively have a list of names to work on when a player leaves, so now when the interest comes in we can get a good fee, move on and not have a repeat of this in Janaury

[The Saintee]

I'd personally have hoped that McCann,(given the rate of his development and progress), would have backed himself rather than jump at the first offer.

[steviemay17]

3 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

I'd personally have hoped that McCann,(given the rate of his development and progress), would have backed himself rather than jump at the first offer.

This is one of the main things but he'll have been advised that it's a short career and injuries do happen, plus he'll often look up in a match or training to be greeted by the ghost of Stevie May as a very visual reminder of how quickly things can change after a bad injury

Edited September 2, 2021 by steviemay17

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

My biggest issue is that we are clearly a selling club (basically anyone who isn't Man City, Real Madrid or PSG is) but we still seem to cower from that fact and don't actively try to get big fees when a player's stock is highest. We seem to sort of hide and pretend it's not happening and then be like "oh wow they've left and we didn't plan for this, how did this all happen?")

This is kind of it, this summer was probably Saints optimum time to sell given he had 2 years (right?) left on his deal and is obviously coming off the Cup double and generally an all round breakout season with international caps.

Assuming he'd be disinclined to sign an extension you're looking at him still being a saleable asset in January but this time next year the clock's ticking and he only has a year left on his deal. If he sees out his contract then you're looking at a development fee of maybe £500k or so?

Clearly it's a case of a player is only worth what another club is willing to pay but from the outside looking in it feels like Brown has kind of undermined the club a bit in so much as he's started with the whole "Ali will only leave for north of our record fee", then seems to have briefed clubs that £3m was the price (fair enough that's in line with Robertson, McGinn and Turnbull) and ended up accepting less than half that plus bits with a couple of hours to go on deadline.

Kind of feels like in the future anyone looking to buy from Saints is more likely to just ignore the asking price and sit back and wait for the club to roll over given this precedent.