Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[PauloPerth]

14 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

It does all come back to our squad depth and options, obviously the Eetu situation isn't our fault and time will tell if he would've made a difference, but extending both MOH and May was obviously our choice and it's hurting us as neither are good enough to consistently contribute.

There aren't many changes you can make to the startin line-up tonight

Agree about the squad.  It'll feel like hindsight, but I felt we needed a couple more first team quality players in for this campaign; whether it was the manager's choice or budget dictating I don't know.

We're getting about €1m for losing two ties.  Surely we had some budget for 2-3 players? As it is, we've gone into it with about the same squad as last season.  If we'd had a couple more players at the same standard as those on the park we could have brought on over the past few week, especially in Europe, at key times in matches we could have given ourselves a big boost.

The players have given everything but maybe been let down a bit by the lack of options.

Obviously we have no right to expect group stage football, and have already achieved more than we could ever have hoped for, but opportunities like this, to only win one tie out two to get to the groups, won't come round very often.

[steviemay17]

7 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

Obviously we have no right to expect group stage football, and have already achieved more than we could ever have hoped for, but opportunities like this, to only win one tie out two to get to the groups, won't come round very often.

Obviously can only speak for myself, but I think this is why I'm really gutted tonight. Obviously winning domestic cups isn't easy but it's achievable, but for me the idea of Saints being in the group stages of a European competition is just unreal and would be beyond anything I could've ever through was possible a few years ago.

Both ties we've gone away from home and fought so hard to get an excellent result, both LASK and Galatasaray were clearly dreading the return leg and feared failure as you can see from their pretty big celebrations in both games.

Both home legs were talked up as being huge games where the ground would be full and the crowd would be rocking and we could really go after it, but I'm just left with the impression that we didn't give it a proper go either time. That's never a dig at any player for their effort levels, but just the overall approach in both home legs felt like we didn't go after it from the start and really put them under pressure, and it allowed LASK and Gala to take control and grow into the game and there may be some regrets over the approach

[Radford]

5-2-3 is a great counter attack formation but it gives you no control of a game of football. 

It should be part of our armoury but not the default option. 

[Kyle]

I really don’t like the 5-2-3. I can understand why we use it in certain matches but I feel like we don’t create very much and, when we do, our finishing is so shit we never look like putting the chances away. Not sure what the long term solution is, but felt we looked much better with two through the middle last season. 
 

I think we’ve got a busy few days ahead of us to be honest. There surely isn’t a scenario where we leave the month of august with this full squad intact. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Kyle

[steviemay17]

I would also say the games I've seen this year have given me a whole new level of respect for Liam Gordon. I always just thought of him as the spare part who's carried by Kerr and McCart, but the reality is that he holds it all together and is so important to this team

[The Saintee]

So disappointed in that wasted opportunity tonight. 

Spoony has a load of credit in the bank but utterly let himself and his team down in a big way. 

Going to be an interesting end to the window.

[Radford]

I suppose the argument is the manager should have identified that Wotherspoon was super-charged before he came on and told him to stay calm. Equally, a leader on the pitch should have got in his ear when he was going tonto at the referee after not getting a foul before the throw. 

I think that's what probably made me think he might be guilty at the time, not having had the benefit of a replay.

He has to live with that but the fans will support him.

[The Woolshed]

I could be wrong but was Spoony not called round a few mins before they scored (just as we had that decent chance which was saved), given a fairly rousing appreciation and then sent back round. Before he then finally does come on we’ve conceded and the goal posts have shifted so to speak. Just my opinion but given his connection to us, his love for the club etc surely he was fired up way more as a result. Would that have happened had he been sent on at 0-0? We will never know but IMO the decision to make the ‘reactive’ change when conceding is on CD. There can be no doubts what CD achieved last season was unbelievable and may never be matched, but for me the lack of changes when MOH clearly wasn’t getting much from the game is on him. Brown will be well within his rights to now sell any of the assets at sensible bids. He kept off bids for at least 2, probably more and gave CD and the team Two great chances to reach the group’s and unfortunately they have failed to deliver. Last season will never be forgotten, but there’s a real danger of things turning sour if we can’t start scoring goals and winning matches. 

[Radford]

As for the window, we are covered defensively barring a long-term absence for Gordon. We are never going to replace the quality of McCart (more likely) or Kerr if they go but a replacement would obviously be required. Same applies with Rooney. 

We are stacked in central midfield, even if McCann goes. Do you try and source a replacement when you have half-a-dozen players capable of playing there and other areas are in far more need of strengthening? Any McCann fee has invoke pride and not anger. 

The attack is the one part of the team where we require most flexibility. The defensive unit and midfield always tend of play the same way but there is more variation in the attack. 

I liked the profiling that @RandomGuy. did. Damming with faint praise when you class a centre forward as a pressing player.

What other classifications of forward are there? Cause that's basically what we need. 

We've all been caught up in the euphoria of Europe but actually pretty scandalous that we approached these games without strengthening at all, after losing Conway and Melamed.

[mizfit]

Having had a chance to reflect, it’s pretty disappointing to have gone out with that performance for the last 20 minutes. They were there for the taking and we collapsed after conceding.

We missed Gordon massively, it goes without saying, but he is the glue of our back line who makes everything tick.

Clark was MOTM for me, an absolute phenomenal performance in the sticks, hopefully it’s given Clarke some consideration over the Moldova match at the very least.

We needed Wotherspoon on sooner, it was a stupid mistake but I’ll let him off with it, he’ll be beating himself up enough, too much pent up energy and he should’ve been on sooner.

Pick ourselves up for Sunday and then enjoy a rest over international break before getting back to it.

[tree house tam]

For all Spoony has done for the club to taint your legacy on the biggest of stages and one of the most valuable to the club is stupid. Very fucking stupid. Let's hope he can redeem himself before he creeps off to America. 

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Radford said:

We've all been caught up in the euphoria of Europe but actually pretty scandalous that we approached these games without strengthening at all, after losing Conway and Melamed.

This has been my feelings the past few weeks.

In all 4 matches we were level after an hour, and absolutely in the game.  We finished both away legs on the back foot but held on for very good draws, but both home games ended up losing as the visitors became stronger.

Meanwhile our opponents brought on a raft of subs that brought them something extra.  We have been so reluctant to change, in part because the manager obviously felt it would weaken us.

The domestic games similar. Dominated Motherwell but they equalised later on, and watching a tired Saints team at home to Utd it was obvious they were gaining momentum and a goal looked inevitable.

Theres no shame in us losing to this quality of opposition, our players have been great, but as a club have we really given ourselves the best opportunity possible of going through?

[The Saintee]

Rooney isn't a CB. He doesn't have the concentration.

Also echo Radford above about the lack of reinforcement.

When will the club learn?

[andrewh]

12 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Absolute idiocy by Wotherspoon who was raging from the moment he came on.

Vaguely recall one previous time when Spoony was raging and maybe saw red. Can’t remember who it was against or when but I’m sure there was another similar occurrence.

Edited August 27, 2021 by andrewh

[Radford]

Wotherspoon was red carded against Hearts, when he was booked for a challenge he didn't reckon was worth a yellow, then flew into another one.

Not a trait that comes over him often but I think we all have it in us.

[andrewh]

4 minutes ago, Radford said:

Wotherspoon was red carded against Hearts, when he was booked for a challenge he didn't reckon was worth a yellow, then flew into another one.

Not a trait that comes over him often but I think we all have it in us.

Can you remember when that was and where? My memory isn’t helping me much in this one.

[tree house tam]

11 minutes ago, Radford said:

Wotherspoon was red carded against Hearts, when he was booked for a challenge he didn't reckon was worth a yellow, then flew into another one.

Not a trait that comes over him often but I think we all have it in us.

Most certainly but as an experienced member of the squad it isn't acceptable in any way. Folk may say "aye but he's done this and that for the club", well aye he has, that's his job. He let everyone down last night, everyone. 

[sergie's no1 fan]

Murray fuckin Davidson by the way. Played like a man possessed. What's the chances he'll be able to play like that again on Sunday? .

I think you's can hold your heads up high. Didn't get out classed or embarrassed over 4 tough games. It's definitely a case of what could have been. It's sad for Wotherspoon and you's will probably get an undeserved pile on for the next few days. 

Not looking forward to Sundays game though.

[hamicle]

Probably the main positive on the pitch for me last night was seeing Murray Davidson clearly a man looking to make up for lost time.

Wotherspoon was daft and I’m sure he knows it. I agree with all comments about the lack of real depth in our squad, and that we tired and lacked options for the end of games.

Pretty sure the Finnish boy was meant to be signed for these games, so all the delays there haven’t helped either.

Edited August 27, 2021 by hamicle

[RandomGuy.]

This'll be a harsh post and I expect pelters for it.

I like Murray Davidson and he was one of our better players, but him being first choice is a pretty good example of why we never make it in European competition.

McCann aside there's not a single player in last night's defence/midfield who can play through pressure. Rooney maybe but that's just strength rather than technical ability. I think Bryson would've helped but you can't be relying on an injury prone player over 30 for that. Still no idea about Gilmour.

Same up front really. Middleton probably good enough, Kane works hard but compare him to Karamoko who's got everything Kane has but is so much better technically. O'Halloran is virtually useless in these games aside from being a threat in behind every so often. 

These players are all fine domestically, but as soon as we reach a level where opponents are both technically better but also match their work rate, you see the issues it brings us. Obviously hard to get players better on our budget though.