Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[THE FAT MAN]

4 hours ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

That was astonishingly bad. 

Season tickets going to be flying off the shelves next season. 

we might get to double figures for open play goals at home this season....? 

I have my doubts if we will have a season where we are able to sell season tickets 

This virus is going to continue into the summer and obviously depending how it works with the vaccination roll out

But I think the best we can expect is a Ltd number of fans being allowed into games well into next season and certainly not full capacity 

So would it be worth selling season tickets 

I hope I'm wrong and things are back to normal by then,I just can't see it.

[Radford]

With the caveat that three teams went down, Saints only lost to Rangers, Celtic, Killie and Aberdeen in the 26 games that Paul Sturrock took charge of in 1993/94. But we drew our way to relegation despite the fact that it was only 2 points for a win, so draws shouldn't have killed you as much. 

A huge glass half-full or half-empty conundrum for Saints at the moment: we've only lost 4 of our last 22 games (and 2 of those were in unfortunate circumstances) but equally, we are now 1 win in 12 (3 in 19) in the league. 

Saturday is a massive game, coming before fixtures away to Rangers and Livingston, and against Celtic before the Betfred Cup final. A win at Rugby Park and anything is a bonus from those three before the run towards the split where we will need to pick up wins. 

Since we returned to the top flight, we've never been in the situation where we needed wins after the split (albeit only been in bottom six on four occasions) but it's hard to see us avoiding that this season. 

Taking out the Old Firm and Livingston, we are at 1.21 ppg from our 19 games. That'd give us another 6 points before the split, so just 30 points. You then hope that County and Accies haven't really picked up or there isn't going to be much of a gap there.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Radford said:

With the caveat that three teams went down, Saints only lost to Rangers, Celtic, Killie and Aberdeen in the 26 games that Paul Sturrock took charge of in 1993/94. But we drew our way to relegation despite the fact that it was only 2 points for a win, so draws shouldn't have killed you as much. 

A huge glass half-full or half-empty conundrum for Saints at the moment: we've only lost 4 of our last 22 games (and 2 of those were in unfortunate circumstances) but equally, we are now 1 win in 12 (3 in 19) in the league. 

Saturday is a massive game, coming before fixtures away to Rangers and Livingston, and against Celtic before the Betfred Cup final. A win at Rugby Park and anything is a bonus from those three before the run towards the split where we will need to pick up wins. 

Since we returned to the top flight, we've never been in the situation where we needed wins after the split (albeit only been in bottom six on four occasions) but it's hard to see us avoiding that this season. 

Taking out the Old Firm and Livingston, we are at 1.21 ppg from our 19 games. That'd give us another 6 points before the split, so just 30 points. You then hope that County and Accies haven't really picked up or there isn't going to be much of a gap there.

Just been looking at it, and think we need at least 13 points to be safe. 37pts the target.

13 from 13 games. Rangers game probably a right off, unsure what to make of Celtic/Livingston, but if you're negative you're saying 13pts from 10 games, or a 50% win rate.

Let's just hope the points tally needed for 10th is lower than usual

[Radford]

Anything over 1.00 ppg is you saying you think that Accies and County (and Motherwell) are going to pick up form pretty seriously. 

On season form, they will only have 25 or 26 points at the split, so your 37 points is giving them both 4 wins after the split. 

I think it's generally accepted that we should have picked up more points but despite that, we are still on course for 36/37 points. 

Saints need to be wary (having never needed wins post-splif) not unduly panicked.

An issue is we'd be better with 2 wins and 3 defeats (taking out Old Firm and Livingston) than 5 draws from the remaining 8 games. 

Can only hope that the manager went with the 5-2-3 last night because he believed we were playing strong opposition and that he'll be more flexible in other fixtures. It kind of summed up our season though that it was a bad result because of what has come before, not when looked at in isolation, especially when you consider the team he put out. 

That we are still trying to play O'Halloran in the front three when we are 25 games into the campaign is a worry. Again, with just 18 touches, nobody had the football less than him in his 65 minutes on the park. And that's a recurring theme. Yet if Wotherspoon starts there, he's likely to be up there with the most touches?

I like Michael O'Halloran but - short of converting him to a wing back - there isn't a spot for him in a team playing a back three. He could go and still have a few good years elsewhere in a different system so it's just one of those things.

[RandomGuy.]

16 minutes ago, Radford said:

Anything over 1.00 ppg is you saying you think that Accies and County (and Motherwell) are going to pick up form pretty seriously. 

On season form, they will only have 25 or 26 points at the split, so your 37 points is giving them both 4 wins after the split.  

Think this is usually the time of year you start getting weird results. It wouldn't surprise me to see the likes of Hamilton/County beating Aberdeen/Hibs for example. Then everyone starts slitting each others throats at the bottom.

[Widge]

I actually think we'll overtake Dundee United eventually this season. They're 4 points ahead of us and frankly look awful. We've score more goals than 5 of the teams in the league (amazingly!), I know a lot came in the same game. We're also one of only 3 teams unbeaten in the last 5 games. Whilst we're not playing amazingly well we are showing some resilience and just need to turn these draws into the occasional win. It's annoying that we've managed 1 win in the 5 games against the worst 2 teams in the league.

[PauloPerth]

I’m guilty of pushing the 5 game unbeaten run narrative. It probably does sound like polishing a turd, but at the end of the year we went 3 draws and 4 defeats in a row. We were ineffective at both ends of the park and looked like the soft, pretty passing team that everyone wants to play as you’re guaranteed points. It felt like we were emerging as the stand out candidates for bottom spot.

I feel the defence (and goalkeeper) are in a completely different place now, and look far more solid than a month back. It feels like we are scrapping more all over the park as well. 

We have glaring issues in attack, and it doesn’t look like we’re going to blow teams away this season, so being able to keep clean sheets and sneak 1-0 wins looks to be our best method of survival.

The match at killie on Saturday is as close to must win as it gets, given the next 3 fixtures @Radford mentions.  We probably will need to pull one unexpected win out of those three as well, which I think we are capable of.

Regarding the 5-2-3, I can’t stand it, and pretty much have never liked it since opening day. It is one of the biggest factors in how poor we’ve been in attack. If Callum would realise it has its place in certain fixtures away from home, but not be his default formation most home matches, then we’d be in a far better place.

But at the end of the day, I’m coming round to the fact that the manager is blinkered to this, and seems intent on sticking with it come what may.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

For me what makes it more frustrating than the fact were eye bleeding especially at home is that we just keep trying the same thing and hoping magically it'll be different. 

Same shape, same subs. While I don't expect the manager to make massive changes to a gameplan mid game I'm not sure how he can watch the first half last night and change nothing? Especially going forward, we were just aimlessly giving possession away as we were unable to build any possession whatsoever.

O'Halloran as clear as day does not look comfortable playing in that role, he's been rubbish for months I know but if he clearly can't play it, stop persisting with it and hoping it'll change.

In the middle of the park more often than not the 2 are isolated both in and out of possession, were unable to pass through midfield the majority of the time and out of possession they're dragged out of position and teams find it fairly easily find space between midfield & defensive line.

As much as it pains me to say it, May just looks lost as well. To much focus on doing Chris Kane things instead of being a goal threat. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[Widge]

I think the players dictated the formation last night. He wanted to reward Conway for his semi performance, wanted to give Spoony a rest as well. Add in the fact Melamed has a niggle and is obviously not wanting to be risked, May has clearly annoyed Davidson and Hendry appears on the way out. That left O'Halloran or Middleton who despite maybe being able to play up front, has only just met the squad. I don't necessarily a return to the formation for good; however that's maybe wishful thinking more than anything. 

[PauloPerth]

9 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

For me what makes it more frustrating than the fact were eye bleeding especially at home is that we just keep trying the same thing and hoping magically it'll be different. 

Same shape, same subs. While I don't expect the manager to make massive changes to a gameplan mid game I'm not sure how he can watch the first half last night and change nothing? Especially going forward, we were just aimlessly giving possession away as we were unable to build any possession whatsoever.

Just my opinion obviously, but I think a scrappy game where Aberdeen didn’t get many chances was maybe no bad thing for Davidson in that particular fixture.

Would he have been all that disappointed at half time?

[tree house tam]

At least we never lost, which we probably would have a few months ago. I think Callum needs to show some baws, 334 in the next fixture with our stuttering sponsors  in attack M..MKM. May Melamed Kane Middleton surely we can score at least one goal?

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

24 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Just my opinion obviously, but I think a scrappy game where Aberdeen didn’t get many chances was maybe no bad thing for Davidson in that particular fixture.

Would he have been all that disappointed at half time?

I guess it's just the fact were at home with Aberdeen not threatening much, the game was there to be won. I'd like is to show a bit more ambition to try to win the game. Aberdeen took 4 recently from County away from home and we also showed at Pittordrie were capable of having a reasonably decent go at them - appreciate each game as different as well. 

Also feel we should show a bit of determination and attacking intent now to win games before we're 6 weeks down the lines and games start becoming "must win" and the pressure that comes with that makes it even more difficult to be adventurous.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[Sh*teAndMuck]

All this talk of escaping relegation. It’s understandable given how toothless we look, but remember, we’re only 4 points off 6th, people!

Sure, St Mirren have 3 games in hand but do we really expect them to finish above us? Really?

We’re still in the mix. After the second half v Hibs I think we can have cause for a teeny bit more optimism, maybe?

[Saint Huck]

51 minutes ago, Sh*teAndMuck said:

All this talk of escaping relegation. It’s understandable given how toothless we look, but remember, we’re only 4 points off 6th, people!

But unfortunately we cannot score and go on to win games.  Some people (Davidson included) are saying our luck must change.  I dont buy this.  Its our formation that needs to change.  Watching our attack against Aberdeen was pitiful - as it has been most of the season.

[Radford]

Scott Tanser interesting Rangers and Celtic Sunderland  Mansfield Town. 

Wonder who Clive will have to resort to next week? Northwich Victoria? 

[nelsjfc]

Ross County losing Reid and Stewart and signing Jordan White is encouraging from our point of view.

Assuming saints will take the government loan? Obviously the club doesn't "need" it but £1 million upfront to be paid back a £1k a week over 20 years seems like a deal not to be sniffed at. Free money.

[realmadrid]

11 minutes ago, nelsjfc said:

Ross County losing Reid and Stewart and signing Jordan White is encouraging from our point of view.

Assuming saints will take the government loan? Obviously the club doesn't "need" it but £1 million upfront to be paid back a £1k a week over 20 years seems like a deal not to be sniffed at. Free money.

31st May last year we had 2.8 million in the bank.

If we have not burnt through all of it then taking on the loan would not be a good idea.

Will we be in the top league for the next 20 years , 50 grand a year is a lot if your not in the top league.

[perthsaint1977]

31st May last year we had 2.8 million in the bank.
If we have not burnt through all of it then taking on the loan would not be a good idea.
Will we be in the top league for the next 20 years , 50 grand a year is a lot if your not in the top league.

31 may this year as per recent brown article we will have depleted a big chunk of these savings. If the terms of the loan are as reported, it's a no brainer for every club to grab it. Effectively a player less a year will be the repayments on a million quid. Hope the club are not too proud to go get this assistance. Hopefully allows us to leave the money in the bank and ride out the last 12 months without too much impact.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

Scott Tanser interesting Rangers and Celtic Sunderland  Mansfield Town. 

Wonder who Clive will have to resort to next week? Northwich Victoria? 

Does he want a move back south for example family reasons or is this nonsense all about trying to get more money out of Saints?

As I cannot for the life of me imagine Saints offering him more money simply because of alleged interest elsewhere!

[RandomGuy.]

I might be wrong but I have the impression Tanser is desperate to return to England tbh. One we'll be aswell just accepting now and moving on from before any decent replacements are snapped up.

If taking the loan would allow us to actually, you know, build a squad for next season, then it would make complete sense, but I guess that's not what it's there for despite the bizarre decision to make it almost free money.

Club made a complete farce of the Summer window and so far are doing the same here. We've not signed, or even been linked to, a single player who I think could come in, perform to Premiership standard straight away, and also net us money down the line, since Davidson was hired, and I doubt that's all down to him.