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1 hour ago, AndyRoss said:

I suppose the issue with Scott was he left on the deadline day. We managed to get Aarons in at the close of play, but perhaps got caught by surprise at the value offered?

 

It is, aye, and I understand that, but the chat seemed to be that Hull came back multiple times with raised offers for him. I like Aarons and think he's got a good bit about him (and I think he'd have been dynamite on our pitch around July) but he isn't the same type of player, and as I mentioned, neither him nor Ndjoli are a Cole replacement, which we certainly did know for at least a month.

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Very rarely venture from the St Mirren matchday threads, but...

Genuinely surprised at the difference in the performances between the halfs last night.  You looked class in the second half.  A totally different team from the first 45. 

Tony Watt looked very tasty for you, and the lad playing up top on the right (black lad with dreads) looked a player too.  

Good luck against Hamilton.  X 

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13 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

It is, aye, and I understand that, but the chat seemed to be that Hull came back multiple times with raised offers for him. I like Aarons and think he's got a good bit about him (and I think he'd have been dynamite on our pitch around July) but he isn't the same type of player, and as I mentioned, neither him nor Ndjoli are a Cole replacement, which we certainly did know for at least a month.

I think that's what it comes down to tbh. Our hands are tied somewhat in terms of being flexible enough budget-wise to bring in like for like replacements and thinking back was there not a suggestion that we'd had a few options fall through before we eventually ended up with Ndjoli?

That doesn't alter the point that recruitment wise we've not been able to replace a player we had a fair idea was leaving. It's also fair to acknowledge that we've kind of lucked out with Watt's availability - it's not something we'll ever find out but I'd be curious to know if we'd made contact with him before signing off on the Scott deal.

There's a bit of a knee jerk about the 433 and Robinson being "found out" which is understandable but I suppose the test of that will be whether we're able to tweak things enough to find a shape that will work with a fully fit Aarons and Watt. Tbh, a rework of McGhee's lop-sided 442/433 with one out and out winger seems like the logical shout with Aarons, Watt and Long.

Edited by capt_oats

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Very rarely venture from the St Mirren matchday threads, but...
Genuinely surprised at the difference in the performances between the halfs last night.  You looked class in the second half.  A totally different team from the first 45. 
Tony Watt looked very tasty for you, and the lad playing up top on the right (black lad with dreads) looked a player too.  
Good luck against Hamilton.  X 

Tony Watt is a very clever player but seems to lose interest after a few months anywhere. He will do you a good job for a while, I wish him all the best.

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Just watched the highlights from last night, the defending was worse than I remember. I still have no idea what the keystone cops were doing.

Tony Watt took his goal really well. Vaclav Flapky is only marginally better than Cammy Bell.

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Manzinga seemed a weird sub at the time and I don't think he really did much to justify it once he was on. I know we'd essentially given up on the pretence of playing people in their positions by then but of the options we had left at that point, Ilic is at least nominally more of a midfielder- we probably could have done with someone to control the tempo and pick a pass rather than Manzinga's, eh, all action approach to the game.

Tbh as soon as Campbell scored I felt the only chance we had of a win was by getting a fifth in open play.

Edited by YassinMoutaouakil

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12 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Manzinga seemed a weird sub at the time and I don't think he really did much to justify it once he was on. I know we'd essentially given up on the pretence of playing people in their positions by then but of the options we had left at that point, Ilic is at least nominally more of a midfielder- we probably could have done with someone to control the tempo and pick a pass rather than Manzinga's, eh, all action approach to the game.

Regretting releasing the Danish Prince IMO.

In all seriousness, it's been shite timing for Jamie Semple to have picked up his injury as that would have been the ideal role for him to start getting involved.

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Both Robinson's big tactical shifts- thunderdome and 4-3-3- have more or less came about out of necessity, and I wonder if what we seen last night might be the seeds of our next evolution. Obviously the second half was played under pretty extreme circumstances and teams certainly won't let us go that gung-ho every week, but in an attacking sense it's the most fluid the post-January squad have looked so far.

A weird sort of lopsided 3-4-3 might incorporate some of the more encouraging developments at least.

Gillespie

Donnelly -Gallagher- Dunne

Tait - Campbell- Polworth- O'Hara

Watt- Long- Aarons

 

edit- reading back I've accidentally posted essentially the exact same team as @scmwell :lol: sorry.

Edited by YassinMoutaouakil

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14 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Both Robinson's big tactical shifts- thunderdome and 4-3-3- have more or less came about out of necessity, and I wonder if what we seen last night might be the seeds of our next evolution. Obviously the second half was played under pretty extreme circumstances and teams certainly won't let us go that gung-ho every week, but in an attacking sense it's the most fluid we've looked so far with the post-January squad.

A weird sort of lopsided 3-4-3 might incorporate some of the more encouraging developments at least.

Gillespie

Donnelly -Gallagher- Dunne

Tait - Campbell- Polworth- O'Hara

Watt- Long- Aaarons

Given part of our problem has been distribution from the back I'd say dropping Donnelly - who can ping a pass - into a nominal role between the two centre backs kind of works. If Carroll is out for a length of time Aarons was an actual left back/wing back at Newcastle.

Something along these lines:

42857155_ScreenShot2020-02-19at15_52_29.png.86bd8a9c17c951a0c7f12108f1219fc7.png

Actually, is that not roughly what we had before Tanner's knee fell to bits with him playing off Nadir and Main and a back 3 of Dunne, Aldred and Kipre?

Edited by capt_oats

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The above was something that crossed my mind after last night. I wasn't sure whether Aarons looked comfortable as a wing-back last night due to the nature of the game. If he could play there and enable us to avoid a lopsided front three, or enabled us not to play an underwhelming winger on the other side.

Similarly, I thought Donnelly was very assured in the middle of a back three, but was appreciative of the fact that chasing a Scottish Cup tie in a the second half would be very different to a bog standard league game. However, the role he played in there as a "sweeper" if you like didn't seem that different to what he does when he plays well in midfield, just that he's sitting behind the defence rather than in front of it.

Have a feeling it'll be another busy transfer window. Really hope we manage to get Mugabi and Seedorf off the books, as well as being able to let a few others go.

Interestingly, I thought with there being no centre-half on the bench yesterday Barry Maguire might have been quoted. However, I guess the fact that there were three wingers on the bench (two of whom didn't get on) before him tells us that's a project Robbo has given up on.

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2 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Interestingly, I thought with there being no centre-half on the bench yesterday Barry Maguire might have been quoted. However, I guess the fact that there were three wingers on the bench (two of whom didn't get on) before him tells us that's a project Robbo has given up on.

In fairness, Maguire's been coming back from an injury. He was playing for the Reserves on Monday.

I'm not sure if they're still trying to make him a midfielder or not.

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24 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Given part of our problem has been distribution from the back I'd say dropping Donnelly - who can ping a pass - into a nominal role between the two centre backs kind of works. If Carroll is out for a length of time Aarons was an actual left back/wing back at Newcastle.

Something along these lines:

42857155_ScreenShot2020-02-19at15_52_29.png.86bd8a9c17c951a0c7f12108f1219fc7.png

Actually, is that not roughly what we had before Tanner's knee fell to bits with him playing off Nadir and Main and a back 3 of Dunne, Aldred and Kipre?

Given part of our problem has been distribution from the back... I'd be inclined to give Carson the nod. Only thing I can fault him for, distribution from Gillespie is slow and laboured.

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6 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

In fairness, Maguire's been coming back from an injury. He was playing for the Reserves on Monday.

I'm not sure if they're still trying to make him a midfielder or not.

Yeah, I know he's considered a "midfielder" these days, but having played centre half, I thought he might have been considered a viable option on the bench given it would be highly unlikely that we'd use Manzinga, Ilic, Seedorf and Hylton and surely one of them could have been sacrificed for him

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Hartley seems to have a weird reverse Scott Brown thing going on. I'm not sure it he gets complacent or his body just can't cope with more than a few months of constant football but this is a few times now that he's put in shambolic performances and looked totally done, had a spell out the team then came back in and been solid again for a wee while before the wheels fall off again.

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9 hours ago, wellfan09 said:

Manzinga trying to clear that ball out the box lol

 

He only just cleared the box on his fourth attempt, the ball came back in and he headered it further than any of his clearances, can we harness that somehow?

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When we put Donnelly at the back he played alongside two overlapping centre backs, rewriting the coaching manuals.

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2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Have a feeling it'll be another busy transfer window. Really hope we manage to get Mugabi and Seedorf off the books, as well as being able to let a few others go.

IIRC Robinson was saying in the press that we'd been speaking to people with a view to pre-contracts for next season, I suppose we'll need to wait and see if we're adding names to that list after recent performances. I've mentioned before but of the first team squad we've got Ferguson, Gillespie, Tait, Hartley, Dunne, Livingstone, Maguire, Long, Manzinga, Ilic and now Watt all OOC in the summer with O'Hara, Aarons and Ndjoli's loans up.

There's definitely scope for another rebuild there. We've basically said that if it's mutually agreeable we'd be open to sorting something longer term with Watt  - obviously depends of his motivation but it seems daft for us to get him fit for another team.

In fairness, Robinson's generally been quite good at moving on players if he's decided they'll no dae whether they're contracted or not: Sloth's the most recent but Craig Clay, Alex Fisher, Bigi, Danny Johnson all had time left on their contracts.  We were also able to move #DT23 on as well and we got a bit of help from the tabloids with cancelling Jacob Blyth too.

Edited by capt_oats

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4 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

It is, aye, and I understand that, but the chat seemed to be that Hull came back multiple times with raised offers for him. I like Aarons and think he's got a good bit about him (and I think he'd have been dynamite on our pitch around July) but he isn't the same type of player, and as I mentioned, neither him nor Ndjoli are a Cole replacement, which we certainly did know for at least a month.

I don't know if we were looking to change up the style, but I do think you are spot on - it looks like we've reacted too slowly with regards to finding a replacement for Cole and Scott. 

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3 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I've probably just missed it but why was Gallagher actually out last night?

Saw a bit of chat on Twitter that he was ill. 

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