Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I generally think if young players are good enough they're probably better served trying to break into the first team but I'd make an exception for strikers, and maybe centre backs.

I'll admit that I initially thought Scott looked like a big blonde shithousing huddy and didn't really get the hype, but you could see his confidence grow over the course of his first extended run and the technical facets of his game shone through a bit more. Another 6 months of consistent game time on loan somewhere would be pretty beneficial.

Stylistically he reminds me of Lee Erwin a bit, an absolute unit with surprisingly good feet,if a bit chaotic. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by YassinMoutaouakil

[RandomGuy.]

12 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

For your own sake dont read WAP, especially Cageys posts. Unless hes personally seen players play like Messi then they're shite.

For those who took this advice. Our fans now believe you should accept £2m for Turnbull as "it's a lot of money" and you've got lots of debt, apparently. 

Talk of a potential £5m fee is "dreamland" stuff because he plays for Motherwell.

[capt_oats]

7 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I generally think if young players are good enough they're probably better served trying to break into the first team but I'd make an exception for strikers, and maybe centre backs.

I'll admit that I initially thought Scott looked like a big blonde shithousing huddy and didn't really get the hype, but you could see his confidence grow over the course of his first extended run and the technical facets of his game shone through a bit more. Another 6 months of consistent game time on loan somewhere would be pretty beneficial.

Stylistically he reminds me of Lee Erwin a bit, an absolute unit with surprisingly good feet,if a bit chaotic. 

Appreciate this is a bit; I was there in 1968.  I was there at the first Can show in Cologne. I was there in 1974 at the first Suicide practices in a loft in New York City. I was working on the organ sounds with much patience. I was there when Captain Beefheart started up his first band. I told him, "Don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime."

Anyway, I'm pretty sure *cough* I was at a few of Scott's first appearances for the u20s and you could tell it was a step up for him physically and in terms of level. He was 15 or something. He'd get into good positions and either hit the keeper if it was a 1 v 1 or shank the ball wide. The more he played and the more he got a bit of confidence he seemed to find his feet and the more adjusted he got the more started to score regularly.

It definitely felt like it was the case he was still finding his feet in the run of games he got at the tail end of the season.

As @Swello was saying yesterday if he can get a 6 month loan where he can get regular games and get into the habit of scoring goals in a first team environment then there's no reason he can't come back in January and contribute to the first team. What's more is that you can actually see exactly where he fits in our XI.

Also...the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics.

Edited June 11, 2019 by capt_oats

[Swami]

15 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Appreciate this is a bit; I was there in 1968.  I was there at the first Can show in Cologne. I was there in 1974 at the first Suicide practices in a loft in New York City. I was working on the organ sounds with much patience. I was there when Captain Beefheart started up his first band. I told him, "Don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime."

Anyway, I'm pretty sure *cough* I was at a few of Scott's first appearances for the u20s and you could tell it was a step up for him physically and in terms of level. He was 15 or something. He'd get into good positions and either hit the keeper if it was a 1 v 1 or shank the ball wide. The more he played and the more he got a bit of confidence he seemed to find his feet and the more adjusted he got and he started to score far more regularly.

It definitely felt like it was the case he was finding his feet in the run of games he got at the tail end of the season.

As @Swello was saying yesterday if he can get a 6 month loan where he can get regular games and get into the habit of scoring goals in a first team environment then there's no reason he can't come back in January and contribute to the first team. What's more is that you can actually see exactly where he fits in our XI.

Also...the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics.

I hear you're buying a synthesizer and an arpeggiator and are throwing your computer out the window because you want to make your own soundtracks to goal compilations of lower league English players on YouTube. 

[capt_oats]

8 minutes ago, Swami said:

I hear you're buying a synthesizer and an arpeggiator and are throwing your computer out the window because you want to make your own soundtracks to goal compilations of lower league English players on YouTube. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Appreciate this is a bit; I was there in 1968.  I was there at the first Can show in Cologne. I was there in 1974 at the first Suicide practices in a loft in New York City. I was working on the organ sounds with much patience. I was there when Captain Beefheart started up his first band. I told him, "Don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime."

Anyway, I'm pretty sure *cough* I was at a few of Scott's first appearances for the u20s and you could tell it was a step up for him physically and in terms of level. He was 15 or something. He'd get into good positions and either hit the keeper if it was a 1 v 1 or shank the ball wide. The more he played and the more he got a bit of confidence he seemed to find his feet and the more adjusted he got the more started to score regularly.

It definitely felt like it was the case he was still finding his feet in the run of games he got at the tail end of the season.

As @Swello was saying yesterday if he can get a 6 month loan where he can get regular games and get into the habit of scoring goals in a first team environment then there's no reason he can't come back in January and contribute to the first team. What's more is that you can actually see exactly where he fits in our XI.

Also...the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics.

You're losing your edge.

[thisGRAEME]

I love this. 

[well fan for life]

It's a pleasure to announce that this thread is back on form. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Well Bois yet again establishing ourselves with the best hipster credentials in Scottish football.

[Archie McSquackle]

I freely admit to being a dinosaur with no idea what's going on.

[tree house tam]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

For those who took this advice. Our fans now believe you should accept £2m for Turnbull as "it's a lot of money" and you've got lots of debt, apparently. 

Talk of a potential £5m fee is "dreamland" stuff because he plays for Motherwell.

If they had taken your advice they wouldn't have read it.

Anyway who gives a f**k what a Saints fan on zoomer central says about Motherwell? 

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

If they had taken your advice they wouldn't have read it.

Which is why I was then describing it...

[tree house tam]

18 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Which is why I was then describing it...

Which is why I typed my second sentence.  Anyway this conversation is on a par with that Celtic morons input, let's get back to David Turnbull being fucking amazing. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by tree house tam
Stupid phone

[Neil86]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

For those who took this advice. Our fans now believe you should accept £2m for Turnbull as "it's a lot of money" and you've got lots of debt, apparently. 

Talk of a potential £5m fee is "dreamland" stuff because he plays for Motherwell.

lot's of debt is a bit far fetched as far as i'm aware, not 100% sure what the figure is at but I am sure I read somewhere that without taking any transfer fee from Turnbull into consideration the debt would be cleared, taking into consideration Hastie, Kipre's sale and Mckinstry as well, and the albeit slim chance of cadden's dev fee.

[Swello]

28 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

lot's of debt is a bit far fetched as far as i'm aware, not 100% sure what the figure is at but I am sure I read somewhere that without taking any transfer fee from Turnbull into consideration the debt would be cleared, taking into consideration Hastie, Kipre's sale and Mckinstry as well, and the albeit slim chance of cadden's dev fee.

The only thing to take into account here (if I remember correctly from the AGM) - development fees of the type we'll receive for Hastie, Cadden and McKinstry don't count as "transfer fees" in terms of paying back Boyle and Hutchinson. The club could voluntarily use that money of course to clear things quicker if that was sensible...

In terms of the debt - it is (currently) of the soft variety and will be lower than most teams (and will very likely be completely cleared by the time the transfer window slams shut in September).

Edited June 11, 2019 by Swello

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

The only thing to take into account here (if I remember correctly from the AGM) - development fees of the type we'll receive for Hastie, Cadden and McKinstry don't count as "transfer fees" in terms of paying back Boyle and Hutchinson. The club could voluntarily use that money of course to clear things quicker if that was sensible...

In terms of the debt - it is (currently) of the soft variety and will be lower than most teams (and will very likely be completely cleared by the time the transfer window slams shut) in September.

On that point, the club accounts on Companies House indicated that the arrangement currently in place ie: repayment via % of transfer fees rather than a payment schedule had been extended by 12 months. It was due to revert to a fixed payment schedule this year.

Quote

32. Events after the reporting date

• The company has extended the period under which loan repayments due to Mr L Hutchison and Mr J Boyle are based on a percentage of player transfer income for a further twelve month period.

p. 28

With that in mind from both Boyle and Hutchison's POV it's in their interest to back the club to ensure they get as close to the valuation for players as possible.

Also, out of curiosity as I can't remember if it was mentioned at the AGM (they really should get a small PA and a mic) presumably the Double Your Money offer Les extended will see a fairly decent chunk of that "debt" due to him written off?

Essentially by September the only real "debt" as such will be to the owners ie: a number of the people posting on this very thread. 

[thisGRAEME]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Essentially by September the only real "debt" as such will be to the owners ie: a number of the people posting on this very thread. 

 

Mount up.

[Swello]

8 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Essentially by September the only real "debt" as such will be to the owners ie: a number of the people posting on this very thread. 

Yes - if the Society "loan" the club money every year as is the plan - then there will nominally be debt but that will never be called in (and as it accrues, it means (as I understand it) that the society will be the major creditor as well as the owner, which could be vitally important if things ever went tits up in future).

I think paying off the historic debt will be a symbolic moment for the club but my main concern has always been that the club can operate within its means without major backing (over and above the modest means of our support) - and in that sense, the transition to fan ownership has settled in nicely after some initial doubts about the model. Operating well in the transfer market and having a great commercial season in 17/18 has undoubtedly made the transition away from Hutchinson's money a soft one.

The only thing I find mildly surprising is that Boyle hasn't written off the amount owed to him by this stage - seems odd.

  

[crazylegsjoe]

The more I think about it, the more I think Cadden will end up staying next season. Any time I discuss this, I feel that I need to qualify that I like and rate Cadden, but I think the fact the most recent part of his career had stagnation, then injury, the £600k ballpark figure for compensation may be acting as a deterrent for any team who would be realistically interested. Can't see an Aberdeen or Hearts being happy paying that, only the really wealthy league one teams could afford it, and is he good enough for the Championship? Following on from that, I think him signing a new deal would mean he'd leave for a fee nowhere near that, a la Murphy or Reynolds.

I noticed someone mention on twitter that we start pre-season next week, but even then I'm guessing we can't give Cadden a deadline, because the offer being on the table is crucial to us getting compensation.

 

[capt_oats]

I've genuinely no idea what will happen with Cadden (obviously) but it's interesting that he's out of contract but still included in the first team squad list after the refresh. Clearly he's got a new deal that will remain on the table until he makes a decision one way or another but still.

Oddly, he's not the only one. Peter Morrison's still listed on the Reserves page despite his profile showing his contract was up in May and there being zero mention of a new contract offer when the club put up their Squad Update last month.

From the look of the players we've brought in so far we've not replaced Cadden as yet. You'd think if he were to sign then the wide right berth would be his. Similarly the wide left spot would still be held for Gboly depending on how those conversations go.

IIRC the contract that's on the table if a 2 year deal which would give us a couple of windows to cash in (albeit presumably at a less prohibitive price) and also would give him the opportunity to get fitness and form back after his injury. Clearly he could still move but I'd imagine we'd be more than happy to go to tribunal rather than do a deal given the length of time he's had at the club and number of appearances.

In fairness, I don't blame him for keeping his options open and going by his IG he seems to be having a nice holiday.