Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Al B]

I know todays announcement has absolutely zero effect on anything to do with Motherwell FC, but I just cant shake the general feeling right now that we are well and truly fucked in every way.

Who knows, it could be that everything that is happening right now ends up being a full clearing of the decks from top to bottom, ends up being a major re-set (which in all honesty is probably needed if truth be told), and we go on to make the most of things and it all ends up being for the best in the long run, but right now I can't get myself out of the phase of feeling like we're about to go through our very own Falkirk.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

The one thing giving me hope is that Killie and Ross County have fucking horrendous squads as well.

[capt_oats]

19 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

I'm not sure that will be the case. As far as I know we can't take him hostage, so if the Aberdeen thing came about after that initial announcement we may just be getting by with some interim solution until we bring in the replacement/restructure.

If the Aberdeen thing came about after that initial announcement...

[eliphas]

7 minutes ago, Al B said:

Who knows, it could be that everything that is happening right now ends up being a full clearing of the decks from top to bottom, ends up being a major re-set (which in all honesty is probably needed if truth be told), and we go on to make the most of things and it all ends up being for the best in the long run, but right now I can't get myself out of the phase of feeling like we're about to go through our very own Falkirk.

Hoping the same. A re-set and clearing of the decks I think is needed given the last few years. 

As someone said,  maybe @Kapowzer  a number of pages back from memory, it feels like a 2-3 years of a kind of general malaise and things not really being quite right squad and club wise. I've definitely paraphrased that but I think it was the jist.

Needs a good leader to emerge though from somewhere externally I think. Fingers crossed.

[MP_MFC]

8 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

The one thing giving me hope is that Killie and Ross County have fucking horrendous squads as well.

They have managers who have at least proven themselves at this and or a better level. We've got a youth coach and a guy who makes sandwiches. 

[capt_oats]

As a general point, I take it we don't actually need to have a Chief Executive in place to launch Hammell? That would be a board decision anyway?

[Swello]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

As a general point, I take it we don't actually need to have a Chief Executive in place to launch Hammell? That would be a board decision anyway?

As I said earlier - I can't imagine that they would take any hire/fire decisions in a period that the old guy is clearing his desk and the new guy/girl isn't in place - I think we are in limbo at the moment.

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, Swello said:

As I said earlier - I can't imagine that they would take any hire/fire decisions in a period that the old guy is clearing his desk and the new guy/girl isn't in place - I think we are in limbo at the moment.

Yeah. That's annoying.

[Jacksgranda]

21 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

They have managers who have at least proven themselves at this and or a better level. We've got a youth coach and a guy who makes sandwiches. 

At least your team will get a half time snack.

[Swello]

1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

Yeah. That's annoying.

It is - when we are all talking about bad timing - this is really what it's all about. It's easy to say "ach, it's just boardroom stuff" - but in the current predicament this directly affects the football stuff that we all mostly care about. If we miss a time to make important decisions, that's pretty unforgivable. Hopefully the new person is very imminent as waiting until the 27th now seems like a bad move.

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, Miguel Ángel Espínola said:

I bet a few QP fans are wanting to see the back of Dempster

They're not her type.

[Desp]

43 minutes ago, Al B said:

I know todays announcement has absolutely zero effect on anything to do with Motherwell FC, but I just cant shake the general feeling right now that we are well and truly fucked in every way.

Who knows, it could be that everything that is happening right now ends up being a full clearing of the decks from top to bottom, ends up being a major re-set (which in all honesty is probably needed if truth be told), and we go on to make the most of things and it all ends up being for the best in the long run, but right now I can't get myself out of the phase of feeling like we're about to go through our very own Falkirk.

Is that a statement or a question?

[Al B]

19 minutes ago, Desp said:

Is that a statement or a question?

I'm not sure how that could be a question...

edit - Missed the Falkirk Presser reference

Edited February 8, 2023 by Al B

[Kapowzer]

1 hour ago, eliphas said:

Hoping the same. A re-set and clearing of the decks I think is needed given the last few years. 

As someone said,  maybe @Kapowzer  a number of pages back from memory, it feels like a 2-3 years of a kind of general malaise and things not really being quite right squad and club wise. I've definitely paraphrased that but I think it was the jist.

Needs a good leader to emerge though from somewhere externally I think. Fingers crossed.

I think I said it about 500 pages back. I do like the word malaise however and use it often especially when talking about this shitshow.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Kapowzer

[eliphas]

49 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

As a general point, I take it we don't actually need to have a Chief Executive in place to launch Hammell? That would be a board decision anyway?

Guessing it would just be one less board member to vote for it unless there is an agreed quorum which given the circumstances I'd doubt would be a problem to get around. It's essentially a few guys in a room talking and agreeing, or not, on something. It's not quite Succession boardroom dealings.

[Kapowzer]

1 minute ago, eliphas said:

Guessing it would just be one less board member to vote for it unless there is an agreed quorum which given the circumstances I'd doubt would be a problem to get around. It's essentially a few guys in a room talking and agreeing, or not, on something. It's not quite Succession boardroom dealings.

Well if Feeley and Dickie represent the contributing fan base and vote based on their wishes it should be two against.

Can’t see that being the case however.

We’ll hobble over Raith or be papped lose the must wins and go into the split needing maths to help us. At present it’s still in our own hands.

[eliphas]

I need a refresher on the whole Well Society thing and how it all works nowadays to be quite honest. Was an initial contributor and member then lapsed tbh.  

Original WS - Membership levels and contributions with individual benefits. Trying to get a big pot of money for a rainy day fund. Didn't own club. 

Second incarnation - No benefits individually. Didn't own club. Did the whole double your donation thing with Les eventually after he'd came in and been a big weirdo. Had a fund for club and we loaned as and when. 

Current incarnation - Own club as majority shareholder. Current funds still ring fenced but doesn't need to be a formal loan? It's just funding things each year isn't it?

Is that right?

There's no direct or quick way to influence things really is there as a member? Other than getting a WS board member to raise something at the WS board level, then from there have it taken to the club board?

Edited February 8, 2023 by eliphas

[capt_oats]

I've been noticing some revisionism and snark about Burrows' time with us, not necessarily from Motherwell fans but more from fans of other clubs who seem confused as to why he's held in high regard.

Aside from all the "fan engagement" stuff, having a quick look Dempster left in June 2014 so objectively his tenure starts then. He became COO 10th June 2016 and became Chief Executive 17th April 2018.

So in that time - from the 14/15 season:

League & Cup:
14/15 (McCall/Baraclough) : 11th
15/16 (Baraclough/McGhee): 5th (Youth Cup winners)
16/17 (McGhee/Robinson): 9th
17/18 (Robinson): 7th (League Cup Finalists, Scottish Cup Finalists)
18/19 (Robinson): 8th
19/20 (Robinson): 3rd* (European Qualification)
20/21 (Robinson/Alexander): 8th
21/22 (Alexander): 5th (European Qualification)
22/23 (Alexander/Hammell): erm, TBC

Gives us 6 different managers (although McCall was clearly already in place when he got the job) with an average league position of 7th alongside 3 Top 6 finishes, 2x European qualification and 2x Cup Finals.

Finance:
14/15: (£1.15m)
15/16: (£412k)
16/17: (£104k) - became fully fan owned 28th October 2016
17/18: £1.72m (record profit/turnover)
18/19: (£436k)
19/20: £346k - record transfer received - £3m (D.Turnbull)
20/21: £3.57m (record profit/turnover)
21/22: (£1.08m)

So 2x record profits, transition to full fan ownership in addition to growth to record ST sales.

I mean, yes we look fucked at the moment but broadly speaking I'm not sure what folk are expecting from the CEO of a provincial club in terms of performance.

In May 2022 we were sitting with £4.2m+ in the bank and a nice new pitch having just qualified for Europe for the 2nd time in 3 seasons.

Edited February 8, 2023 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

44 minutes ago, eliphas said:

I need a refresher on the whole Well Society thing and how it all works nowadays to be quite honest. Was an initial contributor and member then lapsed tbh.  

Original WS - Membership levels and contributions with individual benefits. Trying to get a big pot of money for a rainy day fund. Didn't own club. 

Second incarnation - No benefits individually. Didn't own club. Did the whole double your donation thing with Les eventually after he'd came in and been a big weirdo. Had a fund for club and we loaned as and when. 

Current incarnation - Own club as majority shareholder. Current funds still ring fenced but doesn't need to be a formal loan? It's just funding things each year isn't it?

Is that right?

There's no direct or quick way to influence things really is there as a member? Other than getting a WS board member to raise something at the WS board level, then from there have it taken to the club board?

That's pretty much how I see it, we are basically modelled on clubs in the continent (Germany at least) that are/were fan owned. At the top is a supervisory board above the club board above the CEO. 

It's important to stress that - in theory at least - we're fan owned, not fan run. 

Of course when there only 50 of us and a dog it's easy to bring stuff up - mail the society and you'll likely get a much quicker response, if not always concrete action, than when a bloke in München mails Bayern.

On the other side, we have ended up fan run in practice which has clear benefits but also drawbacks. If you want to be professionally run you need to not only pay for pros but accept they will have their own agenda which might not always match that of the fans (the #content last season, for example).

I think most people agree we've had a stinker of a year off the pitch but it's hard to know exactly why, especially when on the pitch we've basically been ok recently and are financially stable. Are the current lot just tired and out of ideas or is there a deeper (and hat-tip for the word here) malaise that some new blood won't fix? 

[Swello]

58 minutes ago, eliphas said:

I need a refresher on the whole Well Society thing and how it all works nowadays to be quite honest. Was an initial contributor and member then lapsed tbh.  

Original WS - Membership levels and contributions with individual benefits. Trying to get a big pot of money for a rainy day fund. Didn't own club. 

Second incarnation - No benefits individually. Didn't own club. Did the whole double your donation thing with Les eventually after he'd came in and been a big weirdo. Had a fund for club and we loaned as and when. 

Current incarnation - Own club as majority shareholder. Current funds still ring fenced but doesn't need to be a formal loan? It's just funding things each year isn't it?

Is that right?

There's no direct or quick way to influence things really is there as a member? Other than getting a WS board member to raise something at the WS board level, then from there have it taken to the club board?

I'm a contributer/member of the Society but to be quite honest, other than paying in, I've not really taken much interest in the day to day stuff. I was initially sold on the idea of the "rainy day overdraft thingy" rather than the fan ownership stuff as I thought the former was more important to the survival of the club than the latter. I've always had a consistent view that I don't want our supporters to have any sort of day to day operational influence on the club - that type of fan ownership would, to put it technically, be a massive fucking disaster.

One thing I think I can say is that that Feeley/Dickie are not playing some sort of adversarial role on the board where they are constantly pushing the other directors based on some sort of feedback from the "owners" - they are just being normal board members and that could be a good thing or it could all be far too cosy - I don't know about that part (although I think having some feet held to the fire by the supporters reps on the Board would be a fine, healthy thing).

Like a lot of stuff at the moment -the fan ownership stuff is going to need re-focussed and changed based on the fact that we are being financially outgunned these days...