Casagolda Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 46 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: A clueless, rudderless team atm. Cannot see a way in which Hammell survives, which, let's be honest, nobody wants, but there comes a point where realism has to come in to play here. Aye, St Johnstone had lost 7 on the bounce before Wednesday and Aberdeen 5 on the spin before today. They’ve both swept us aside without breaking sweat this week. If you’re not even looking like competing with these teams never mind actually beating them, then it’s hard to see how they can justify keeping this going. Let’s face it, Hammell shat it today and went for self preservation. Aberdeen have lost 14 goals in their last 3 league games and lost to Darvel in between and we didn’t lay a glove on them. He knows he’s in trouble and basically looked like he was just trying to avoid a doing and sneak out with a 0-0 if he could. When it went tits up 2nd half, he basically just started chucking bodies on hoping for the best. Contrast today with the attitude and approach he had during his first visit to Pittodrie and it shows just how far we’ve regressed during his tenure. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I didn't love his appointment but anyone criticising needs to remember we had (according to wide reports at least) four viable candidates, all of whom had huge downside. One took the Norrkoping job. One decided to wait for a better chance in the UK/go straight to England. So we were left rolling the dice either way with Simo or Hammell. I'd have gone Simo but let's be honest, this was the definition of Hobson's choice. But as I said before, I reckon the market in England is different and we're actually more attractive now. 35 points usually hits the play-offs and we still have County x 2, United x 2, Killie x 2, St Mirren at home, Livi at home...10-12 points from those eight games leaves us needing to scramble 3-5 from somewhere else. We are not - inexplicably - doomed yet. We need to act now though to give Kettlewell a chance for St Mirren and have our newbie in for the do-or-die double-header. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnderooMFC Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I'm probably the least tactically minded fan ever. Never even played any FM games or even a Pro Eva (World Cup 98 for PS1 was good though). So I've always thought that if there's something wrong with the team that I notice, then surely someone who does it for a living and has a record number of appearances for us can notice it too. As much as we say The Thread Has Power, I'm pretty sure Hammell knew we needed centre-backs and a hardnut in defence. By the looks of things in the window we've got some and I might have been right. But now I have absolutely 0 confidence that he'll be able to actually get them to do something. I also get a feeling that with the club putting an off-field focus on mental health it's lead to creating a 'safe space' in the dressing room. As much as he may have been passionate at the AGM, he's clearly too afraid to have some strong words with the players. How an alleged "Motherwell man" can watch this week after week and not tear strips off the players and get a reaction is beyond me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hahn Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, Casagolda said: He knows he’s in trouble and basically looked like he was just trying to avoid a doing and sneak out with a 0-0 if he could. When it went tits up 2nd half, he basically just started chucking bodies on hoping for the best. See, there's been several times during the season where we could have gone with a 5-3-2. I think we've absolutely had the personnel to do that. Today was NOT that day. We had ONE fit available centre back, so we go for a back 5?! Agree with pretty much everything said on the thread so far so won't repeat, the time for a change is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr Hahn said: See, there's been several times during the season where we could have gone with a 5-3-2. I think we've absolutely had the personnel to do that. Today was NOT that day. We had ONE fit available centre back, so we go for a back 5?! Said as much in the match thread as well. When we had Penney and a few fit centre backs it seemed like a decent idea. Switching to a back 5 with 4 full backs in it was just mental. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapowzer Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) @Casagolda nailed it, we're exactly who everyone wants to play next, it's guaranteed points of some nature. Teams on shite runs and there's no coincidence we're the ones to continually break it Let's face it, any early season highs were masked by it wasn't turgid Alexanderball No mental fortitude, resilience or fight Not one player has improved under his tenure, majority have regressed Glaring issues in the same areas week on week with no fixes offered "That" formation today He has failed to recruit effectively or based on actual desperate need he had a window just there too Threadbare or chronically under strength in key areas, however 3/4 deep in others What is going to be confirmed by holding on to him for another few weeks? You have to think with all the new bodies what are you expecting to actually see next week you've not seen this week, is there gonna be an epiphany not one of us has seen so far? He's like a losing gambler in a bookies professing "the next one will change everything", issue is he's having to back things at increasingly deeper odds to bring it back. Another kick in the baws for Tierney and alike that Aitchison gets a start Edited February 4, 2023 by Kapowzer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, AnderooMFC said: I also get a feeling that with the club putting an off-field focus on mental health it's lead to creating a 'safe space' in the dressing room. As much as he may have been passionate at the AGM, he's clearly too afraid to have some strong words with the players. How an alleged "Motherwell man" can watch this week after week and not tear strips off the players and get a reaction is beyond me. Tbh, I think you're reading way too much into that or at the very least over thinking it. When it comes down to it I think it's as simple as Hammell and Kerr simply not being very good coaches for this level of football and the level of player they're being asked to work with. The regression in players is absolutely nuts. I don't know how much Kerr has honed his coaching skills in the past few years but if it still amounts to screaming "lazy leg is fucking lazy" at a player then it's hardly a surprise we're not seeing any sort of reaction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceiling Granny Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, Mr Hahn said: See, there's been several times during the season where we could have gone with a 5-3-2. I think we've absolutely had the personnel to do that. Today was NOT that day. We had ONE fit available centre back, so we go for a back 5?! Agree with pretty much everything said on the thread so far so won't repeat, the time for a change is now. If there weren’t already big massive neon signs, this should be the indicator to the board that tactically Hammell is lost. I wasn’t convinced on him taking on the managerial role, but wasn’t unhappy. It’s obvious now though that it just hasn’t worked. Someone said further back in the thread (sorry I can’t mind who) that he should have had someone with more experience than Kerr beside him to lean on, and I think with hindsight this should have been something the board insisted on when giving him the gig. For me, it’s all the best Hammy - still love you as a player, but it’s time for someone new. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, AnderooMFC said: I also get a feeling that with the club putting an off-field focus on mental health it's lead to creating a 'safe space' in the dressing room. As much as he may have been passionate at the AGM, he's clearly too afraid to have some strong words with the players. How an alleged "Motherwell man" can watch this week after week and not tear strips off the players and get a reaction is beyond me. See tbh, I'm not sure I buy this at all. Shouting at folk doesn't necessarily make them any better, but fundamentally, we don't look like we know what we're doing. Fullbacks looking up and aimlessly punting into channels benefits fucking no one. Players looking unmotivated. Player performances regressing. Team performances regressing. Bad player management (to me at least). Weird tactical shifts. Lobbing on players en masse in the hope of something better. These do all fall on the manager, and we're no longer in games and losing closely, we're just getting leathered off bad teams, and that's the manager that carries the responsibility for that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I have said it before and the facts are there. To begin with it was working. We were winning games and even the ones we were losing we were still imho the better team. But since the World Cup break and especially in the last few weeks we have been going backwards at an alarming rate. There are no signs that Stevie can turn this around. Forget the fact we have some new players. The facts are the old players are not playing for him. That is either down to bad management bad tactics or more probably both. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: See tbh, I'm not sure I buy this at all. Shouting at folk doesn't necessarily make them any better, but fundamentally, we don't look like we know what we're doing. Fullbacks looking up and aimlessly punting into channels benefits fucking no one. Players looking unmotivated. Player performances regressing. Team performances regressing. Bad player management (to me at least). Weird tactical shifts. Lobbing on players en masse in the hope of something better. These do all fall on the manager, and we're no longer in games and losing closely, we're just getting leathered off bad teams, and that's the manager that carries the responsibility for that. Massively this. @Casagolda mentioned it earlier but compare today with the 2-3 at Pittodrie earlier in the season. At that point it felt like there was a common focus - even if it was as basic as wanting a GIRUY to Alexander. The longer Hammell and Kerr have been in the job the worse we've been getting to the point that now, as you say, we don't look like we have a clue what we're doing and have a collection of (apparently) entirely unmotivated players. If the player performances are getting worse and the team performances are getting worse that, unfortunately, reflects on the manager and his coaching staff. Edited February 4, 2023 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 That's yer man KVV bettered his league goal tally from last season. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) If he's still in post by the time the team bus arrives back in ML1 it's not just him that needs emptied, and if those in power are that blind or too spineless to make the call, then we are, indeed, absolutely fucked. Edited February 4, 2023 by 'WellDel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: That's yer man KVV bettered his league goal tally from last season. Every chance he equals our best return in recent seasons IMO. 15/16 - Moult - 15 16/17 - Moult - 15 17/18 - Moult - 8 (left in December) 18/19 - Turnbull - 15 19/20 - Donnelly / Long - 7 each (league curtailed) 20/21 - Cole - 11 21/22 - Van Veen / Watt - 9 each 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I expect he'll get off the bus, then get sacked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boozyBJ Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Cant bin him till the team gets back to Motherwell. Imagine sitting on the bus back home after being sacked. Awkward 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Tbh, for all I've been saying he's toast I'd be surprised if it was imminent. It's the sort of thing I can imagine the board would talk through over a few days. I could easily see him getting the SC game next week. I think it's almost certainly in the post though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZX1886 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Did Burrows not mention before that the board don’t make big calls like this on the day of game? Fully expect Hammell to be in charge next week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, capt_oats said: Tbh, for all I've been saying he's toast I'd be surprised if it was imminent. It's the sort of thing I can imagine the board would talk through over a few days. I could easily see him getting the SC game next week. I think it's almost certainly in the post though. There's only about four folk on our board, this situation is hardly a surprise and modern technology lets you meet instantly. I perhaps don't quite expect them to assemble tonight but if it's not tomorrow then it should be first thing Monday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Aye, As much as I think he should be away, I still don't think he will be. I don't think the board will empty Stevie Hammell because he's Stevie Hammell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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