Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Swello]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

His deal is up in 2024.

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/player/liam-kelly/

Kelly to the ****, Gillespie back on loan please.

I assumed that Kelly would go in Jan or the summer and the boy they signed under cover of darkness in the Summer was here to be his replacement...

[Lobby Dossar]

17 minutes ago, Swello said:

I assumed that Kelly would go in Jan or the summer and the boy they signed under cover of darkness in the Summer was here to be his replacement...

Think that is the plan …… by all accounts he is a very good keeper and unlike Kelly at 6ft + will be able to come for cross balls 

[Dosser2014]

I wouldn't have thought that Kelly was a typical Rangers type keeper, although he did start out with them. We'll see.

[Ron Aldo]

I wouldn't have thought that Kelly was a typical Rangers type keeper, although he did start out with them. We'll see.

Going off Kelly's social media he's a complete fud so he'd fit right in at Rangers straight away.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Swello said:

I assumed that Kelly would go in Jan or the summer and the boy they signed under cover of darkness in the Summer was here to be his replacement...

Dunno like.

I mean, he was an Alexander signing rather than a Hammell one. He always felt like a low-ish risk back-up option given the injuries Fox had along with him having only played 2 games for Morton in the 2 years he was at the club.

I've only seen Oxborough play once for the Reserves and he didn't really have much to do. It just feels like it'd be a *gamble* to go from a run of Carson > Gillespie > Carson > Kelly to a 'keeper with 22 games at Barnet to his name.

Edited November 13, 2022 by capt_oats

[eliphas]

I'm coming across like a Kelly fanboy in my last couple of posts but for those wanting to get shot of Kelly I'd be very careful what you wish for. 

I'll say it again but Kelly's patchy form (compared to last season anyway) is far from the issues we need to solve  

I'd probably say this order

- Weak midfield defensively

- Poor midfield/attack link up play

- Attackers who look like they don't know each other 

- Unproductive full backs

- No winger options

- Connor Shields 

- Centre backs fond of a f**k up

- Some bad Kelly saves 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by eliphas

[Handsome_Devil]

I'd be amazed if Rangers buy Kelly soon, indeed when you remember the goalies we didn't manage to sell I don't think anyone will be buying him at all.

That said, I'm happy to trust those at FP if such an option is available - they'll know if they trust the new guy and in the situation they won't go for this plan unless they're 110% sure.

Kelly's had a wobble for definite but I'm fine if he stays. As noted above, if he is a problem he is the least of them.

[Busta Nut]

I don't disagree he is the least of our problems, I just don't rate him at all really.

[ropy]

On 04/11/2022 at 11:22, ropy said:

New pitch paying dividends with a Scotland U21 match scheduled for this month.  The old trick of getting a home player in the squad in full force too.

 

7pm on Thursday 

[Kapowzer]

5 hours ago, Swello said:

I assumed that Kelly would go in Jan or the summer and the boy they signed under cover of darkness in the Summer was here to be his replacement...

Kelly's wage and 3 year deal demanded he go next summer to realise the biggest premium, January 2024 then you're looking at Watt sort of arrangement and depressed fee. I can't see the big fella we signed nothing other than a bench warmer in the hope with coaching he may have something about him, otherwise he's off the summer to be a benchwarmer elsewhere (like Chapman).

Big Gunnar was a skinny giant and was pish so height isn't everything. I just feel better when the keeper makes an opposition burly centre half have that second of doubt that he's gonna get clattered by someone bigger.

I'd pretty much echo @eliphas list. Alternatively listing the positives so far (in order):

• Chronic issue with left back seems to have been addressed even if its a loan.
• While up and down, even at our worst under Hammy its not the eye bleeding stuff we were used to. At least lineups, tactics, formations and play makes sense to the majority.
• Despite a poor summer transfer window and new regime we are not cut loose as many predicted, we're in the pack.
• From Hearts at FP till Saturday it was always going to be a points light period. Now we've moved into the 2nd round of fixtures and soley among our contemporaries we've taken 3 off Dundee United away, 1 away at St Johnstone, Hibs away being the outlier. Lack of composure cost us at Tynecastle and Aberdeen was chronic but they are not what they were last season and starting to click this season.
• From the 17th of December until early Feb on we've got a really good run to put points on the board facing 6 games from 7 against commensurate teams (similar to our August fixtures).
• Goss seems to have found his niche sitting between defence and midfield (however offers little in the way of cover).
• McGinn is solid if not spectacular
• Spittal seems more assured in C&A every week (however offers little in the way of cover).
• Efford finally seemed to be repaying faith and starts by two managers. Not suggesting one swallow makes a summer but when fit it will be interesting to see if he pushes on or regresses when he returns.
• Moult when involved knows how keep confidence and momentum going on the pitch. Kev seems to respect him as an equal rather than dismissive of the other forwards on the pitch.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Kapowzer

[Dosser2014]

42 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

• While up and down, even at our worst under Hammy its not the eye bleeding stuff we were used to. At least lineups, tactics, formations and play makes sense to the majority.

Aye, most punters I think would agree about our improved style of play, but not so sure about line ups, tactics, formations and play. You may well be right about the majority giving a nod to these factors but I've heard sufficient numbers of fans questioning at least one of them to suggest to me it might not be quite so clear cut. 

[Kapowzer]

29 minutes ago, Dosser2014 said:

Aye, most punters I think would agree about our improved style of play, but not so sure about line ups, tactics, formations and play. You may well be right about the majority giving a nod to these factors but I've heard sufficient numbers of fans questioning at least one of them to suggest to me it might not be quite so clear cut. 

Well the majority means half plus 1. For us, to have any united voice approaching 51% it is essentially a landslide.

Looking at the lineup on Saturday, in a game that was going to be more attritional Cornelius could have been worth a shout but then at who's expense? Goss has been in decent form and Dean doesn't have his range of passing. Slattery while dipping in form for a month is or best baller so you hope he gets it back, Spittal doesn't merit a drop due to his attacking contributions of late. So do you limit the speed and wing threat of McKinstry to add an extra body in midfield?

Before McGinn got injured I would have liked to have seen a 5-3-2 mainly because I felt an extra body in the centre of defence would be opportune. Many now seem to think a formation change needs half a season to bed in so attach reluctance to it. At present our formation is governed by who's available primarily, it helps the non-crocks allow essentially 4-3-2-1 / 4-1-4-1 which Hammy seemed to be in favour of before our injuries kicked in.

Tactics - we've played the OF 3x in the league and 1x in the cup and all league encounters we have -3 GD, marked improvement. We are soft as shite but more down to the personnel than the instructions given ...... I hope.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

For me, Goss isn't good enough off the ball to play as part of a 2 in a 4-2-3-1 formation. I think when our midfield contains him and a number 10, which is normally either Spittal or Tierney, it makes us very weak, which leaves an admittedly off-form Slattery with lots to do. I think the deepest in a 4-3-3 would suit Goss. 

Spittal, despite two goals and an assist in the last four games, to me is another weak point. He doesn't seem to contribute much out of possession and seems very easily dispossesed.

As for Kelly, there's no doubt his form has taken a dip and it's probably more noticeable due to the fact that the majority of the games have been tight and a mistake from him is probably quite costly. 

For me, there's no doubt that Kelly is the standard of a good Motherwell goalkeeper. Perhaps where any gripe may lie is that how hard we worked to pursue Kelly and the fact that he is reportedly on a very decent wage and that we done all of this whilst we had Trevor Carson on the books, who appears to be doing well at St. Mirren now. The obvious caveats to that, right enough, would be that Kelly is 7 years younger and has been fit to play every single game since he signed.

Perhaps the captain's armband is weighing heavy on him, post-Lasley it seems to have been a curse. All of our club captains since then - McHugh, Hartley, Gallagher, O'Donnell and now Kelly, have struggled for form after becoming captain. I was discussing this with @Busta Nutat the game on Wednesday and couldn't disagree with his shout that in light of this, we should just make Connor Shields the captain.

 

[Dosser1886]

9 hours ago, Dosser2014 said:

but not so sure about line ups, tactics, formations and play. 

Don't think he has the players at his disposal, yet, to pull off what he wants the team to do as successfully as he/we would like. Hopefully transfer window, some guys coming back will help remedy this. But I would rather be watching this brand of football for a while yet with the hope that we can get some guys in to help deliver it before looking to alter it too dramatically too soon.

Maybe kidding myself on but when I hope it does click through some additions coming in, it could be well worth it.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Dosser1886

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

For me, Goss isn't good enough off the ball to play as part of a 2 in a 4-2-3-1 formation. I think when our midfield contains him and a number 10, which is normally either Spittal or Tierney, it makes us very weak, which leaves an admittedly off-form Slattery with lots to do. I think the deepest in a 4-3-3 would suit Goss. 

This is something that I had thought as well but I hadn't really made any sort of correlation.

See when we had our initial run of good results under Hammell, was it not more of a 4141 and a 433 we were playing?

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

21 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

This is something that I had thought as well but I hadn't really made any sort of correlation.

See when we had our initial run of good results under Hammell, was it not more of a 4141 and a 433 we were playing?

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 to begin with, then we played Inverness in the league cup in a 4-2-3-1 and Tierney had a good game in the number 10 role and we've appeared to stick with that shape since.

[thisGRAEME]

56 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 to begin with, then we played Inverness in the league cup in a 4-2-3-1 and Tierney had a good game in the number 10 role and we've appeared to stick with that shape since.

A great bit of news for our assault on the Championship next season.

[Marinello]

Thinking ahead to the possibility of Penney returning to Ipswich in January, does anyone know how Mc Ginley's rehab is progressing.

Saw him in hospitality recently  and he seemed to be moving well enuff---- albeit that he was only stretching for a sausage roll!!

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 to begin with, then we played Inverness in the league cup in a 4-2-3-1 and Tierney had a good game in the number 10 role and we've appeared to stick with that shape since.

Yeah, having a look at it these are the teams from the games up to (and including) ICT:

31/07/22 - St Mirren (a) (0-1): Kelly; McGinn, Johansen, Lamie, Carroll; Maguire; Morris, Spittal, Goss, Shields; Van Veen
06/08/22 - St Johnstone (h) (1-2): Kelly; McGinn, Mugabi, Johansen, O'Donnell; Spittal, Maguire, Goss, Morris; Van Veen, Shields
13/08/22 - Aberdeen (a) (2-3): Kelly; McGinn, Mugabi, Johansen, O'Donnell; Slattery, Goss, Cornelius, Spittal; Van Veen, Shields 
20/08/22 - Livingston (h) (1-0): Kelly; McGinn, Johansen, Lamie, O'Donnell; Slattery, Goss, Cornelius; Shields, Van Veen, Spittal
27/08/22 - Kilmarnock (a) (2-1): Kelly; McGinn, Johansen, Lamie, O'Donnell; Slattery, Goss, Cornelius; Van Veen, Shields, Spittal
31/08/22 - ICT (h) (4-0): Kelly; McGinn, Johansen, Lamie, Penney; Slattery, Goss, Tierney; Spittal, Van Veen, Efford

So for the majority of the games up to ICT we had that 'extra' midfielder in there whether it was Maguire or Cornelius. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by capt_oats

[Swello]

4 hours ago, Marinello said:

Thinking ahead to the possibility of Penney returning to Ipswich in January, does anyone know how Mc Ginley's rehab is progressing.

Saw him in hospitality recently  and he seemed to be moving well enuff---- albeit that he was only stretching for a sausage roll!!

McGinley is the weirdest one - I don't think the nature of his injury has ever been mentioned to the best of my knowledge (happy to be corrected on that by someone more attentive/ITK than me) and normally with very long term ones, we at least know roughly what the issue is. In any case, losing Penney after a short spell will be a sore one and not something that a fit again McGinely is really going to compensate for.