Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

35 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Would love to know if the stat exists for shots on target v goals conceded. @capt_oats may be able to help confirm my fears that we are by far the worst in the league. 

Celtic possibly deserved to win, but again we have conceded 2 goals from 3 shots on target. We seem so easy to score against even if our GD is respectable by historic measures.  That or we are playing without a goalkeeper. 

Every other team is picking up points but we have been on a wretched run. Saturday is massive. We need a positive result. 

Well we've got the 5th best goals against record in the league so that's something.

I'm sure WyScout have an exact figure for the shots on target against for the entire league but I don't have a subscription so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We average 12.3 shots per game against and we've conceded 21 in 15 games so an average of 1.4 conceded per game.

For context United average 15.7 shots against per game and have conceded 30 goals in 15 games so an average of 2 per game.

Killie average 12.5 shots per game against and have conceded 27 goals in 15 games an average of 1.8.

For the sake of being correct here's a list of our shots on target against (and goals conceded):

09/11 - Celtic 3 (2)
06/11 - Hearts 7 (3)
29/10 - United 3 (0)
22/10 - Aberdeen 3 (2)
16/10 - Rangers 4 (2)
08/10 - Hibs 5 (1)
04/10 - County 1 (0)
01/10 - Celtic 6 (2)
18/09 - Hearts 6 (3)
03/09 - United 3 (0)
27/08 - Killie 4 (2)
20/08 - Livi 1 (0)
13/08 - Aberdeen 3 (2)
06/08 - St Johnstone 3 (2)
31/07 - St Mirren 6 (0)

Total - 58 (21)

[MP_MFC]

13 minutes ago, ropy said:

O’Donnell had tackled in the box, the ball was cleared then Hetate (sp?) did ‘something’ I didn’t see it clearly but the reaction in unison suggested it was something nefarious.

Sod seemed to basically lean onto hatate to get himself up off the ground and hatate kinda pushes him away and swings a leg at him to do it. Could have been construed as a kick out but was more handbags and both at it to me. 

[welldaft]

11 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Well we've got the 5th best goals against record in the league so that's something.

I'm sure WyScout have an exact figure for the shots on target against for the entire league but I don't have a subscription so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We average 12.3 shots per game against and we've conceded 21 in 15 games so an average of 1.4 conceded per game.

For context United average 15.7 shots against per game and have conceded 30 goals in 15 games so an average of 2 per game.

Killie average 12.5 shots per game against and have conceded 27 goals in 15 games an average of 1.8.

For the sake of being correct here's a list of our shots on target against (and goals conceded):

09/11 - Celtic 3 (2)
06/11 - Hearts 7 (3)
29/10 - United 3 (0)
22/10 - Aberdeen 3 (2)
16/10 - Rangers 4 (2)
08/10 - Hibs 5 (1)
04/10 - County 1 (0)
01/10 - Celtic 6 (2)
18/09 - Hearts 6 (3)
03/09 - United 3 (0)
27/08 - Killie 4 (2)
20/08 - Livi 1 (0)
13/08 - Aberdeen 3 (2)
06/08 - St Johnstone 3 (2)
31/07 - St Mirren 6 (0)

Total - 58 (21)

Thanks. Perhaps unsurprisingly the better teams need less shots on target to score more goals. 
Still seems a high % to concede a goal for less than 3 shots on goal on average. 
Probably not a great example but last night Aberdeen had 10 shots on target v Livi and scored 1 goal. Going by our average they would have scored between 3 and 4 goals against us. 
Either Livi were very lucky or we are unlucky. Truth is probably somewhere in between

 

[ropy]

First goal, Slattery should have cleared it and not been robbed in the box.

Second goal, I wasn’t sure if the Celtic player blocked the throw or if Penney hit him with the ball.  In either case it should have been retaken but I am fairly sure Callum was unsighted.

Our goal, the best of the lot.

The early chance, KVV took it wide but you would expect it to be instinctive for a striker to find the target. 

[Swello]

Mistakes - waaay too many basic mistakes in the team at the moment. Both goals lost tonight were amateur stuff again and that includes "non critical" stuff like playing attacking passes straight to Celtic players when it's easier to find our man on the break or Kelly putting his 800th ball of the season right out the park. 

I'm not sure how to put this properly - but I quite like the way the team are set up and when it works (like our 2nd on Sunday) it really works - but it almost feels like we are missing the detailed "coaching stuff" that stops all the basic mistakes happening all the fucking time. 

I hate that the world cup is happening in a shite medieval theocracy, I hate that it's disrupting the real football at this time of year - but my god do we need the time on the training pitch that it's going to give us.

[CoF]

I think I'm in the minority here in that I feel kinda okay with where we are and what we're seeing on the pitch.  Given the summer shambles and the difficult position Hammell was dropped into, and the key losses of Aarons, Moult and Efford I resigned myself weeks ago to just trying to get through to the January window without being adrift at the bottom. 

We're working with as threadbare a squad as I can remember with pretty much zero options to meaningfully change things, either before games or during games. The fact that we're just 4 points off top six, putting in okay(ish) performances most weeks and rarely losing by more than a single goal tells me we might not be too far off becoming a decent side in the second half of the season with a couple of astute additions. 

Just now feels very, very different from previous seasons where relegation form has reared it's head. There's still a cohesion in the squad and I can see the plan, January will make or break it though. 

[ropy]

I thought O’Donnell put himself about well, he was constantly high up the pitch when we were attacking, he made important challenges, his shooting is rotten, you could see him anticipate Celtic’s movement although he didn’t always manage to close things down.

[Archie McSquackle]

At the time I thought Penney threw it off the Celtic player's head and they broke up the park and scored and I didn't see much wrong with it (although I was raging at Penney). There was a bit of a delay so I assumed VAR had looked at it and cleared it but surely there's no way the ball came allowed to come on to the field of play from an opponent's head?

[ropy]

How many of the players are broken after tonight?  Bevis, McKinstry, was KVV injured?

Edited November 9, 2022 by ropy

[ropy]

I was a bit conflicted when Moult came on and Shields had to step back from the point of the attack, he had put in some positive work chasing balls and closing down the back line and keeper.  His distribution was rotten though.

[CoF]

5 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

At the time I thought Penney threw it off the Celtic player's head and they broke up the park and scored and I didn't see much wrong with it (although I was raging at Penney). There was a bit of a delay so I assumed VAR had looked at it and cleared it but surely there's no way the ball came allowed to come on to the field of play from an opponent's head?

From the replay in the game thread it looks kinda deliberate from the celtic player and also kinda deliberate from Penney. You're right though, if it's the head that's brought it into play then don't know how that's not a clear and obvious error. Unless VAR viewed the error as not related to the attacking phase which started literally seconds later. 

f**k knows. 

 

[Swello]

4 minutes ago, ropy said:

I was a bit conflicted when Moult came on and Shields had to step back from the point of the attack, he had put in some positive work chasing balls and closing down the back line and keeper.  His distribution was rotten though.

Same. The Celtic defence had a more uncomfortable time with Shields in 5 mins than 45 of KVV. Moult obviously doesn't have the legs to chase them about all night, so that died a death in record time. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

This feels pretty unique in that I actually quite enjoy watching this team but I'm also fucking desperate for the season to be over already as long as it does with us 10th or above. 

[JamesP_81]

At the time I was convinced their first goal should have been called back for a foul but fair enough , just criminal that Slattery gets robbed like that 2 seconds after winning the ball then kyogo being able to score in the 6 yard box with 2 players touch tight on him . Apart from that I thought we done ok to contain them in the first half in a kind of backs to the wall watching through your fingers kind of way . 

Really felt we deserved something from the game with the second half performance tho , much more energy and confidence with Hammell making positive changes early instead of trying to consolidate a narrow loss.  At the time I was annoyed at the throw in, more that I felt it was a foul throw, but seeing the highlights I'm absolutely fizzing to see that their player is clearly off the park and has influenced the game , surely no iteration or interpretation of the rules can allow play to go on after that ?! 

On the whole I'm in the ' not hitting the panic button yet ' camp as I can see progress and injuries having an impact.  Any points in Perth are a bonus , let's get to the WC break where hopefully some of our broken players have time to mend , SH has a chance to breath and the team can get some good work done on the training ground.  

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I'm sure WyScout have an exact figure for the shots on target against for the entire league but I don't have a subscription so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unsure if it still works, but if you download the WyScout app, create an account for free, and dont sign up for anything, then go into WyScout via your web browser, you can use your log in details to view parts of the main WyScout site which should let you see team stats.

The app is pointless really (last time i used it).

[Richie]

surely there's no way the ball came allowed to come on to the field of play from an opponent's head?

This is the crux of it for me.
99/100 ref will just blow for a retake.

['WellDel]

We're pretty much where I expected us to be atm, and but for some ridiculously naive decisions in not seeing games out with at least a point on the board (e.g. last gasp defeats vs St Johnstone at Fir Park, and Hearts on Sunday), we could easily have been a couple of points better off with a chance of sitting in the top 6 come close of play this weekend.

9th place doesn't look or sound particularly clever but I'll happily take it as a work in progress, and the break should allow us to regroup and get a few bodies back to fitness. We won't set the heather on fire, but are a much better watch than under GA and I think a couple of shrewd additions to bolster the currently paper thin squad, along with cutting out even some of the ridiculously high number of stupid mistakes and unforced errors should hopefully see us ok  

[brainier]

25 minutes ago, Richie said:

 

This is the crux of it for me.
99/100 ref will just blow for a retake.

If only we had VAR, that's the kind of thing they would have spotted. Oh!

[eliphas]

8 hours ago, ropy said:

How many of the players are broken after tonight?  Bevis, McKinstry, was KVV injured?

KVV and Tierney aye

[capt_oats]

10 hours ago, welldaft said:

Thanks. Perhaps unsurprisingly the better teams need less shots on target to score more goals. 
Still seems a high % to concede a goal for less than 3 shots on goal on average. 
Probably not a great example but last night Aberdeen had 10 shots on target v Livi and scored 1 goal. Going by our average they would have scored between 3 and 4 goals against us. 
Either Livi were very lucky or we are unlucky. Truth is probably somewhere in between

Tbh, it feels like as a stat it can really say whatever you want it to depending on your disposition. There's no real context to 'shot on target', Aberdeen's 10 shots could have been 10x daisy cutters for all I know.

Either way, to your suggestion that we're "by far" the worst in the league on this metric, take Hibs for example - 

08/11 - Ross County 3 (2)
04/11 - Aberdeen 6 (4)
29/10 - St Mirren 3 (0)
21/10 - St Johnstone 5 (2)
15/10 - Celtic 9 (6)
11/10 - United 1 (1)
08/10 - Motherwell 1 (0)
01/10 - County 2 (0)
17/09 - Aberdeen 1 (1)
03/09 - Kilmarnock 1 (0)
27/08 - St Mirren 2 (1)
20/08 - Rangers 2 (2)
13/08 - Livi 6 (2)
07/08 - Hearts 6 (1)
30/07 - St Johnstone 1 (0)

Total - 49 (22)

They've faced fewer shots on target than us (9) but conceded more goals.

Edited November 10, 2022 by capt_oats