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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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39 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

Definitely missed Slattery, the drop off between him and Maguire is massive, even the difference when Cornelius came on was night and day. on the full backs, interesting you say that, Robert Borthwick, from the afore mentioned terrace podcast, doing Hearts Commentary said Penney was the most impressive Well played on the park. It was right after he smacked the bar and pulled a great save out of Gordon right enough.

Penney looked great when pushed further up the park, his crossing and shooting is excellent, bit suspect at defending though which is a probelm when you are meant to be a left back.

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I think the conversations about missing Slattery or the positives of Penney in an attacking sense are important in so much as it speaks to the point about us being an extreme work in progress where we're now finding out which players in the group are suited to how Hammell's wanting us to play.

Basically players who perhaps fitted Alexander's more rigid approach will be asked to operate differently going forward.

Anyway, this is mildly interesting - in a Hammellball vs Murderball sense.

According to WhoScored.com we are:

  • Top 5 for possession
  • Top for Aerial duels won
  • 4th for shots per game
  • KVV is top for shots per game

image.thumb.png.586cc5a1ab8c9f4cf542ad10d49a6d22.png

Edited by capt_oats
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I wasn't at either of the United or Hearts games (and I'm not going to watch the highlights of a 3-0 loss to Hearts regardless of how well we apparently played) but is there an argument that KVV isn't really someone we can rely on as a lone striker? It's harsh as f**k given he's our top scorer by miles this season but I wonder if his skillset might be better suited to fashioning chances for someone who's a bit more likely to score the "easy" chances -like Moult. 

Equally you could say that Tierney, Spittal and Efford etc really need to step up a bit as well.

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3 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Sidebar - a rare treat to hear @thisGRAEME hosting the Monday Terrace pod again. Smashing.

Appreciate that. Full intention to be involved a lot more this season as my two year purgatory with a child who viewed sleep as an optional extra of life has chilled the f**k out.

Also, faintly related, a series around parenting will appear at some point.

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10 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I wasn't at either of the United or Hearts games (and I'm not going to watch the highlights of a 3-0 loss to Hearts regardless of how well we apparently played) but is there an argument that KVV isn't really someone we can rely on as a lone striker? It's harsh as f**k given he's our top scorer by miles this season but I wonder if his skillset might be better suited to fashioning chances for someone who's a bit more likely to score the "easy" chances -like Moult. 

Equally you could say that Tierney, Spittal and Efford etc really need to step up a bit as well.

I am not so sure it is harsh. Just seen the tweet from Hearts about Craig Gordon. This was a save from a point blank header from Kev. But again it is virtually straight at Gordon. A foot further left or right and it is a goal. Virtually the same as a header v United a week ago straight at the keeper. 

I am a fan as most of us are and strikers do go through barren patches especially those that play for Motherwell. I would say he was more to blame for draw v United than loss to Hearts, but he fluffed a few good attempts inc a total miss kick in the 1st half. 

Still the McGinn miss is giving me nightmares. Probably the worst miss I have seen a Fir Park for many a year. And at 1-0 too. Pivotal. 

 

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21 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I wasn't at either of the United or Hearts games (and I'm not going to watch the highlights of a 3-0 loss to Hearts regardless of how well we apparently played) but is there an argument that KVV isn't really someone we can rely on as a lone striker? It's harsh as f**k given he's our top scorer by miles this season but I wonder if his skillset might be better suited to fashioning chances for someone who's a bit more likely to score the "easy" chances -like Moult. 

Equally you could say that Tierney, Spittal and Efford etc really need to step up a bit as well.

If my quick check-up was accurate, KVV has only scored 2 league goals in open play so far, so I don't think you're being harsh.  He should have tucked away at least a couple more, given the chances he's had.   

I'm very much hoping Moult will play exactly the 'finisher' role, but Busta Nut's observation that his legs are done suggests he's not going to be hugely mobile.   Still if he can be on the edge of the six yard box poking in creative passes from KVV, or smashing in shots from the edge of the box, then that'll be fine.
 

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21 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I am not so sure it is harsh. Just seen the tweet from Hearts about Craig Gordon. This was a save from a point blank header from Kev. But again it is virtually straight at Gordon. A foot further left or right and it is a goal. Virtually the same as a header v United a week ago straight at the keeper. 

I am a fan as most of us are and strikers do go through barren patches especially those that play for Motherwell. I would say he was more to blame for draw v United than loss to Hearts, but he fluffed a few good attempts inc a total miss kick in the 1st half. 

Still the McGinn miss is giving me nightmares. Probably the worst miss I have seen a Fir Park for many a year. And at 1-0 too. Pivotal. 

 

Gordon does it every time he plays us and probably everyone else, tbh, so I'm giving him the credit over Kev tbh, just for the body of work.

McGinn's was genuinely surreal to watch.

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20 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

 

McGinn's was genuinely surreal to watch

I was still celebrating the goal even after seeing it safely in Gordon's arms as my brain was not allowing me to believe that it wasn't in the net ! 

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1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I wasn't at either of the United or Hearts games (and I'm not going to watch the highlights of a 3-0 loss to Hearts regardless of how well we apparently played) but is there an argument that KVV isn't really someone we can rely on as a lone striker? It's harsh as f**k given he's our top scorer by miles this season but I wonder if his skillset might be better suited to fashioning chances for someone who's a bit more likely to score the "easy" chances -like Moult. 

Equally you could say that Tierney, Spittal and Efford etc really need to step up a bit as well.

This is something I had kind of wondered as well - especially as we seem to have pivoted to an overt 4231.

Essentially could KVV work as the #10? I suppose that's largely dictated by whether Moult can get to a place where he's able to run without being concerned his knees are going to crumble.

Actually paying attention to the playback of the full 90 on Saturday it looks more like KVV moved out left and Spittal dropped in to the #10.

Here we are set up for a Hearts dead ball:

image.thumb.png.db22244e1ffcfc5f12f0a8c3d6956ff8.png

Edited by capt_oats
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25 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

This is something I had kind of wondered as well - especially as we seem to have pivoted to an overt 4231.

Essentially could KVV work as the #10? I suppose that's largely dictated by whether Moult can get to a place where he's able to run without being concerned his knees are going to crumble.

Actually paying attention to the playback of the full 90 on Saturday it looks more like KVV moved out left and Spittal dropped in to the #10.

Here we are set up for a Hearts dead ball:

image.thumb.png.db22244e1ffcfc5f12f0a8c3d6956ff8.png

Yeah I forgot to mention it in my post, but there's a few ways we could potentially fit both of them in a team, though all of them probably involve a wee bit of a rejig or somebody playing out of their natural position. 

I thought KVV out left during Watt's purple patch last season worked fairly well but I'm not sure if it would long term, I agree that dropping him back a bit but keeping him central is probably the most likely outcome.

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2 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I wasn't at either of the United or Hearts games (and I'm not going to watch the highlights of a 3-0 loss to Hearts regardless of how well we apparently played) but is there an argument that KVV isn't really someone we can rely on as a lone striker? It's harsh as f**k given he's our top scorer by miles this season but I wonder if his skillset might be better suited to fashioning chances for someone who's a bit more likely to score the "easy" chances -like Moult. 

Equally you could say that Tierney, Spittal and Efford etc really need to step up a bit as well.

I’ve actually tortured myself a few times watching the highlights and every time I watched it I kept expecting to see it end up in the net.

Also, Tierney might have been better playing Efford in instead of taking the shot and Mount should’ve taken the rebound off the bar on his chest and trying to shoot, it was a good height for it.

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2 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Also, faintly related, a series around parenting will appear at some point.

Nothing says podcasters hitting their mid 30s quite like that......

I for one will subscribe. 

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On the McGinn thing.

Should he score? Absolutely.

It's not quite the open goal folk are making out though. He still has to beat Gordon who's a big laddie, he can't go near post and tbqh he does the right thing going across him.

1744093857_ScreenShot2022-09-20at15_02_06.thumb.png.2ac2c7b9090e68f2f46a4eacd5b1398a.png

Still though...fucking hell.

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50 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

On the McGinn thing.

Should he score? Absolutely.

It's not quite the open goal folk are making out though. He still has to beat Gordon who's a big laddie, he can't go near post and tbqh he does the right thing going across him.

1744093857_ScreenShot2022-09-20at15_02_06.thumb.png.2ac2c7b9090e68f2f46a4eacd5b1398a.png

Still though...fucking hell.

That is a good angle. ALMOST puts a different perspective on it. If you include Gordon’s leg then the angle is narrower than t looked and knowing Gordon he would have saved it if it had not been angled towards back post. 

Still if that game had gone on for another half hour we would have had a saved penalty, two more goals chalked off for offside and hit the woodwork a further 4 times……

Bottom line is the footballing gods decided we were not scoring on Sunday. Only Celtic away up next 🙈

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You could make a case for "hitting the inside of the post" as a very likely outcome, given he was trying to play it past the keeper...

image.png.53f69dc2410bcb5c2c208bd5166f5a77.png

 

And watching the replay (agony) again it did all happen pretty fast.    An instinctive hit that was a very few inches away from success.

 

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Reading all these posts, I wondered if I was thinking of a different miss because I didn’t think McGinns off the post was that bad. There’s probably the verygoodgoalie effect going on where players know they need to be absolutely precise in their placement, and that’s what McGinn has tried to do - Craig Gordon probably does f**k with your head a bit. 

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9 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'd probably just have chipped Gordon or maybe nutmegged him. Why didn't McGinn do that?

Surely one of those Rabonas would have put Gordon off.

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I wasn't at either of the United or Hearts games (and I'm not going to watch the highlights of a 3-0 loss to Hearts regardless of how well we apparently played) but is there an argument that KVV isn't really someone we can rely on as a lone striker? It's harsh as f**k given he's our top scorer by miles this season but I wonder if his skillset might be better suited to fashioning chances for someone who's a bit more likely to score the "easy" chances -like Moult. 
Equally you could say that Tierney, Spittal and Efford etc really need to step up a bit as well.
It's probably worth watching the highlights of the Hearts game just to be astounded by McGinn's miss. I know the photo shows Gordon trying to block it but in real time from behind the goal we couldn't believe it hadn't gone in. There was a dreadful miss by Aberdeen's striker late on against Hibs but I think this eclipsed that.
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