Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

27 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Unfortunately for Alexander, I don’t think he has the luxury of having a 3 million pound player sitting in our reserves ready to come in and transform the team.

Funnily enough, I do think he’s in a similar position to where Robinson was in the summer of 2018. A good first half of the season was followed by a much poorer second half after we’d sold our best player in January. 

Robinson made a complete arse of it that summer though with his signing of Sammon and the whole improving 12-18 nonsense. Think we’d lost something like 5 games on the spin when he eventually decided to chuck Turnbull in around late October. 

I mean I quite liked Robinson but in retrospect, he was extremely lucky he had Turnbull to bail him out otherwise I don’t think he’d have even made it to January to change his ‘philosophy’. 

Aye, his first start that season was a 1-0 loss to St Johnstone (we hadn't won in 4 before he got his start)...and well, we know what happened after that.

Edited April 25 by capt_oats

[Busta Nut]

we're all waiting on GA changing things up, It's not happening.

[Mr Pikey]

The equaliser v Livi only papered over the absolute dross that was served up by our team in that game. I stood there thinking why is everyone acting like we've won the league ?. Also finishing top six is only prolonging the agony of Alexander's dismissal. European tour ?, don't make me laugh. We can't muster any fight against a ten man Rangers reserve team at home and will not get another point this season. The end can't come quick enough right now

[Neil86]

37 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Aye, his first start that season was a 1-0 loss to St Johnstone (we hadn't won in 4 before he got his start)...and well, we know what happened after that.

I put 2 quid on 2-0 Turnbull first goal on against st mirren at 100/1, some night.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I like Robinson a lot and have a lot of nostalgia for that 2017-2019 period but he must have one of the worst records in world football right now. Basically been unable to buy a win since January 2020.

Edit- aye going off Wiki his record in that timeframe is P:69 W:14 D:17 L:38 which almost makes me feel good about our last few months.

Edited April 25 by YassinMoutaouakil

[Ludo*1]

Any update on what is happening with Lamie? I'd really prefer if you lads kept him tbh. Will be a big outlay, I don't rate him at all (I know he's meant to have been impressive for you lads of late) and I think we could do better rather than forcing him on a new manager which will use up a substantial bit of the player budget.

[ropy]

20 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Any update on what is happening with Lamie? I'd really prefer if you lads kept him tbh. Will be a big outlay, I don't rate him at all (I know he's meant to have been impressive for you lads of late) and I think we could do better rather than forcing him on a new manager which will use up a substantial bit of the player budget.

If he gets out of the Dundee contract he will sign for St Mirren, surely?

[Ludo*1]

7 minutes ago, ropy said:

If he gets out of the Dundee contract he will sign for St Mirren, surely?

Because of Robinson?

[capt_oats]

56 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I like Robinson a lot and have a lot of nostalgia for that 2017-2019 period but he must have one of the worst records in world football right now. Basically been unable to buy a win since January 2020.

Summer 2020 seems to have been a massive sliding doors moment for him. He's just finished 3rd* with us and qualified for European football. He's interviewed for the NI job and his stock is probably as high as it'll be.

He has a tough start to 20/21, but kind of steadies things around September/October then things go wildly off the rails with the forfeited games situation.

I found an interview on YouTube that he did with a Bournemouth podcast last year where he admits he'd applied for the Bournemouth job twice, the first time while he was still at Motherwell (which wasn't a surprise but still interesting he confirmed it).

Spoiler

43 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Any update on what is happening with Lamie? I'd really prefer if you lads kept him tbh. Will be a big outlay, I don't rate him at all (I know he's meant to have been impressive for you lads of late) and I think we could do better rather than forcing him on a new manager which will use up a substantial bit of the player budget.

I'd wouldn't imagine there'd be any sort of movement until you're officially relegated assuming that's what the clause relates to. Until that clause kicks in the PCA presumably holds.

It may just have been out of necessity but it's interesting that Lamie's featured regularly regardless of the PCA whereas others who are either out of contract (Donnelly) or have had PCAs elsewhere reported (O'Hara) have dropped out the side.

Donnelly was given an extended run in the side as a starter since just before Christmas but he's dropped down to the bench with Slattery coming back in, O'Hara's had injury issues throughout his time with us but Alexander started him regularly when he was fit, again he's been on the bench recently with Dean Cornelius having started the last 4.

Lamie by contrast has started the last 7 league games plus the Hibs game in the cup.

Edited April 25 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

49 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Any update on what is happening with Lamie? I'd really prefer if you lads kept him tbh. Will be a big outlay, I don't rate him at all (I know he's meant to have been impressive for you lads of late) and I think we could do better rather than forcing him on a new manager which will use up a substantial bit of the player budget.

Suppose its based on the get out clauses on either side of the contract. What Dundee were in January is a different prospect to what they are now. I guess there was hope on both sides that he could move in the window, help with your defence and he'd pocket an extra £700 a week.

From our 4 current central defenders I'd say he's middle of the road. I wouldn't be sad to see him go but glad he turned many fans perceptions of him round in a year including my own. I'd just hope we aspire to more than him which reading your post, you seem to be suggesting too.

However our manager and board have shared that due to Brexit securing UK based talent is that bit harder so as he's a serviceable defender at this level he may be retained. Certainly it's how McGinley got an extension either that or he's got nudes of Grezza.

(NB I don't think McGinley is a serviceable defender at this level.)

Edited April 25 by Kapowzer

[Dosser1886]

Maybe Alexander has chucked it and is trying to get himself sacked?

Edited April 25 by Dosser1886

[Desp]

8 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

From our 4 current central defenders I'd say he's middle of the road. I wouldn't be sad to see him go but glad he turned many fans perceptions of him round in a year including my own. I'd just hope we aspire to more than him which reading your post, you seem to be suggesting too.

 

Bang on the money.  If we're planning on making Lamie the answer to our central defensive issues then we truly are fucked.  Get him launched, and take big Ojala with him as well.  

The jury is still out on Sol for me, but I know he's played a fair bit of fitba over the last 12-18 months.  With a summer's rest and a good pre-season in him, we'll see what's he's got to offer.  Whether O'Connor can come back from QOTS and kick-on, we'll see but we need two centre-halves as a minimum.

[capt_oats]

14 minutes ago, Desp said:

Bang on the money.  If we're planning on making Lamie the answer to our central defensive issues then we truly are fucked.  Get him launched, and take big Ojala with him as well.  

Aye, from reading Lamie's comments on the situation that seems to be where there would be an issue.

Basically he seems to want to be a starter, which is fair enough of course and it's why I'd imagine the Dundee option would have been appealing if McPake was guaranteeing that (along with the uplift in salary he was due to be getting).

Quote

“On top of that, I’d started this season really well and then we brought in a few other players who play in my position.

“Now, though, I’ve fought my way back into the starting XI and I’m a mainstay again and the manager’s told me it’ll stay that way as long as I’m working hard.”

Link

I'm not entirely sure our position on him will necessarily have changed much though. I mean, I can see us being happy enough to have him stick around as a squad option but it's not as if we've been rock solid with or without him in the defence since the turn of the year.

Edited April 25 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

The jury is still out on Sol for me, but I know he's played a fair bit of fitba over the last 12-18 months.  With a summer's rest and a good pre-season in him, we'll see what's he's got to offer.  Whether O'Connor can come back from QOTS and kick-on, we'll see but we need two centre-halves as a minimum.

@Busta Nut made a good observation a while back that stuck with me, If Sol was called Shuggie Smith (and probably less handsome) he'd be getting more pelters and a lot less slack.

To be fair to Ricki, he has been used at LB on at least one occasion, however thinking he can spray the ball about like Thiago or Luca Modric however, that's all on him.

£700 a week on a 2 year deal is shy of £38k on top of what he's on here.

[welldaft]

Given the paucity of talent in our defence I would be up for keeping Lamie, SOD’s, Mugabi and bin the rest. Not including those on loan at QOS. 

The two Scandinavians looked like shrewd signings, but in reality they are both fairly average. Ojala looked a steal and then we realised he was made of glass and since his recurrent injuries looks like he is slower than a week in jail. Sol again started well but has also been found out for pace recently. 

We have had our fair share of problems all over the park. But to me the defence has been by far the weakest link and it shows with the amount of goals conceded. Hell even Kelly has fallen into this recent malaise. 

If we are being totally honest all we can really afford are bang average players. Occasionally we will unearth a gem with the likes of Moult, Kipre and Marv. Then we have our youth system producing the likes of Turnbull, Campbell, Scott and McKinstry etc. But more often than not the amount of money we pay will correlate to the standard of player we are watching week in week out. 

There is a lot of angst about our current standard and results but spare a thought for Hibs and Aberdeen. Hibs have just spent a rumoured £2m paying off Maloney and his staff after only a few months. Chris Mueller is on £8-9000 a week. I mean FFS. They are spunking money all over the place and still find themselves in the bottom 6. 

There are always people / teams worse off than you / your team.  But we all (some more than others ) like a moan. 

Edited April 25 by welldaft

[YassinMoutaouakil]

This might actually be the weirdest season I can remember following Motherwell, which, coming off the back of the Covid season, says a lot. I don't even know how I would try and describe our style of play or what we set out to do each Saturday.  Alexander seems like a gruff, miserable weirdo but part of me still quite likes him. The team look like they've never met each other most of the time (half the time they literally haven't) then will randomly stage a miraculous late comeback every so often.

Hopefully it all makes a bit more sense in a few years after some sort of retrospective. 

[Kapowzer]

It took Sir Alex 5 years to get Manchester United tuned and well oiled and Klopp 4 years at Liverpool .......

Maybe we're not realising where we are in the big cosmic picture

[ropy]

On 24/04/2022 at 14:32, capt_oats said:

Definitely.

That's why I was always quite happy at the prospect of finishing 7th having won a bunch of games post-split vs 6th and getting scudded.

The first two Robinson seasons are quite good examples of that, the 2nd in particular where we'd been mince in the first half of the season but everyone had a lovely old time watching Gboly, Campbell, Turnbull and Scott in the 4-3 against Dundee or the 3-2 against Livi. An 8th place finishes but people generally have a positive opinion.

This season is most definitely the exception to that given how much of a mess it is in the bottom 6 at the moment.

Good times though...

The 4:3 game is full of detail, the Gorrin and Semple involvements are entertaining but I am always drawn to the goal kick decision when Turnbull rolled the ball into the defenders arms and a penalty was initially awarded.  No-one ever offered a suggestion for the reasoning behind that decision.  Was Turnbull penalised for being gallus?

[ropy]

10 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

It took Sir Alex 5 years to get Manchester United tuned and well oiled and Klopp 4 years at Liverpool .......

Maybe we're not realising where we are in the big cosmic picture

Tommy McLean arrived at Fir Park in 1984, it was into the ‘90s before there were cup wins and top 3 finishes.  A precedent has been set.

[capt_oats]

12 minutes ago, ropy said:

The 4:3 game is full of detail, the Gorrin and Semple involvements are entertaining but I am always drawn to the goal kick decision when Turnbull rolled the ball into the defenders arms and a penalty was initially awarded.  No-one ever offered a suggestion for the reasoning behind that decision.  Was Turnbull penalised for being gallus?

The assistant called it as a goal kick.

The claim was (presumably) that the ball was out of play before DT played it and Kusunga handballed...which is genuinely mental given Clancy is closer to the incident than the assistant whose view would have been obscured by the player on the deck (and the ball was a yard in play).

Edited April 25 by capt_oats