Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Mr. Brightside]

1 minute ago, welldaft said:

Pedantics imho. The game will not be stopped every time to review every goal. 

The game will continue unless there are clear and obvious errors or serious missed incidents which necessitate a VAR check. 

How is the weather in this fantasy land this time of year?

[Al B]

9 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Pedantics imho. The game will not be stopped every time to review every goal. 

The game will continue unless there are clear and obvious errors or serious missed incidents which necessitate a VAR check. 

Every single goal that occurs in a match where VAR is used, gets checked by VAR. Thats a fact.

From the official website of the International Football Association Board - the guardians of the laws of the game:

Edited April 14, 2022 by Al B

[Handsome_Devil]

19 minutes ago, Al B said:

I think that's the point those on the no side are making though. I'd much rather have a scenario where a handful of final decisions were wrong at the time, than a scenario where all decisions were correct 30 seconds - 2 minutes later.

Aye, same here in terms of watching as a fan. And I've still not seen anyone explain why there simply can't be a variation on the tennis/cricket appeals approach. If you think you've been mugged by a howler, no problem, ask for it to be checked. But no one will waste their appeal on a first half goal which may or may not have been six inches offside which removes the annoyance of constant checks for marginal errors.

[Swello]

3 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Aye, same here in terms of watching as a fan. And I've still not seen anyone explain why there simply can't be a variation on the tennis/cricket appeals approach. If you think you've been mugged by a howler, no problem, ask for it to be checked. But no one will waste their appeal on a first half goal which may or may not have been six inches offside which removes the annoyance of constant checks for marginal errors.

See -if someone from the SPFL came out last year and said - "we fancy VAR - here are some ways that it might work" and this was one of the options, along with the english system and whatever other variants are around - then they might have persuaded supporters that they were trying to find the best solution and taken us along with them - but they literally don't give a f**k about that sort of engagement. 

[Neil86]

on the whole VAR debate, I already delay a celebration half expecting VAR to intervene, even in Scottish game. Became far too accustomed to it. 

It will undoubtedly get the big calls right (for the most part) blatant penealties, offsides, red cards. What I can't be doing with is 2/3 minute delay's over the tightest offside call. 

[eliphas]

25 minutes ago, Al B said:

That's not correct I'm afraid (I added extra to my post as you were typing), and is exactly why detailed information of what we're being asked for our opinion on, should be provided (to both the clubs and the fans whose opinions are being sought.)

We copy England all the time. 

I have no doubt we will do the same again and follow what they matured their VAR usage into which was from being overly officious in the first season,  to not so much. It's also still a new and maturing system. It will continue to change - like the laws of the game constantly do. 

36 minutes ago, Al B said:

The thing that annoys me most about it (and something a lot of people don't realise), is that with VAR, it's not a case of "there might have been an offside there....let's check it". Every single goal gets checked. Every single one. If someone scores within 2 seconds directly from kick-off and no-one's even moved yet, it still gets a VAR check. Every penalty? VAR check. Every Freekick that someone spectacularly hits top bins and makes you want to dive about like a madman? VAR Check. Lovely, flowing passing move cutting the defence apart and a nice finish? VAR Check. That's just sucking the life out of a game that's already frequently boring as f**k in this country.

That's not correct. As you don't know how Scotland I'll implement it. It's implemented differently to varying degrees everywhere it's used. 

Dont get me wrong, I'm not a VAR evangelist, but I think it's better to have it than not to get corre t decisions Vs it evens itself out. I suppose that's where the split in opinion comes. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by eliphas

[welldaft]

9 minutes ago, Al B said:

Every single goal that occurs in a match where VAR is used, gets checked by VAR. Thats a fact.

From the official website of the International Football Association Board - the guardians of the laws of the game:

I do get that. But your original point unless I misread it. Is that for 30 seconds to 2 minutes there is a review / delay and we cannot celebrate a goal.  If say Slatterys goal on Saturday was scored. It would be reviewed (in the background) as you say, but we as fans would not stop celebrating if it is such an obvious incident free goal. Nor would the game be delayed nor stopped.

If say for Lamies goal there was a delay, then I get your point and I am not looking forward to that aspect of it. But here is my main point. If a goal is scored that should be chopped off because the referee missed something. Then good. That is the whole point of VAR. We will be the beneficiaries as well as the ones affected. But for all the moaning around VAR in the Premiership it gets many more decisions correct than incorrect. No country would use VAR otherwise. 
 

[eliphas]

17 minutes ago, Al B said:

Every single goal that occurs in a match where VAR is used, gets checked by VAR. Thats a fact.

From the official website of the International Football Association Board - the guardians of the laws of the game:

Maybe the rules, but not how it is always applied. Been plenty of TV games where they think a VAR check is being made after a goal and it's not. 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, eliphas said:

Maybe the rules, but not how it is always applied. Been plenty of TV games where they think a VAR check is being made after a goal and it's not. 

That's because they don't know the rules or aren't aware of what has happened. I assume they are only referring to a 'VAR check' as when there's a pause or the referee goes over to look at the pitchside telly. In these instances the off-site officials will have made the check quickly and the referee been told there's no need for delay or him to take a second look.

Every goal gets checked. It's just that sometimes (the majority of goals) it happens so fast in the immediate celebrations it's not noticed.

[Al B]

24 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I do get that. But your original point unless I misread it. Is that for 30 seconds to 2 minutes there is a review / delay and we cannot celebrate a goal.  If say Slatterys goal on Saturday was scored. It would be reviewed (in the background) as you say, but we as fans would not stop celebrating if it is such an obvious incident free goal. Nor would the game be delayed nor stopped.

If say for Lamies goal there was a delay, then I get your point and I am not looking forward to that aspect of it. But here is my main point. If a goal is scored that should be chopped off because the referee missed something. Then good. That is the whole point of VAR. We will be the beneficiaries as well as the ones affected. But for all the moaning around VAR in the Premiership it gets many more decisions correct than incorrect. No country would use VAR otherwise. 
 

If that's genuinely your take, then I don't know what more I can say. Obviously everyones prerogative to submit your the opinion that it's a good thing if you believe it to be so.

I will further mention though that the last part of your post suggests you are misreading something as you're using the fact that it gets more decisions correct than incorrect to make your point. What I'm saying is that generally, those against it are so because they would rather have the incorrect decisions than the method used to get them right.

Also, important to highlight that what we're referring to as a VAR check, doesn't involve and has nothing to do with the referee. The check is done behind the scenes and then if there's anything requiring the ref's attention, then he's alerted. However given the whole point of it being there is to look for things that aren't obvious or have been missed, then it doesn't make any sense to say that we can get on with celebrating if nothing obvious or contentious has happened. When I refer to instincive reactions by fans being curbed, I'm not talking about the referees verdict on a VAR check and waiting on the big dramatic tick or cross on the screen to show if it stands or not. I'm talking about the check itself.....fans will instinctively start to check for the referee's finger going to his earpiece in case someone is telling him in his ear that the video check has noticed something that everyone else in the ground has missed.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Al B

[welldaft]

I kinda get that last point Al B. You don’t need to spell it out.

I will not try to belittle you in any of my posts as it is an arrogant thing to do.

Let’s just agree to disagree. I want VAR for the reasons I have stated. You don’t. That is fine.

[Al B]

4 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I kinda get that last point Al B. You don’t need to spell it out.
 

Well, it seems I do because you continued to use "getting more decisions right than wrong" as your defence for it, when those against it actively don't want all decisions to be correct. No to mention the fact that standard refereeing as it is, gets infinitely more decisions right than wrong without anyone changing a thing.

 

4 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I will not try to belittle you in any of my posts as it is an arrogant thing to do.
 

Try all you like!

[Desp]

Where are these extra refs coming from as well? 

VAR needs, what, three officials in the wee hut?  I'm assuming that will be three additional officials for each game.  Where are they currently? 

[eliphas]

41 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Every goal gets checked. It's just that sometimes (the majority of goals) it happens so fast in the immediate celebrations it's not noticed.

That's perfect then if it's checked every time and is so quick it's not noticed. That's the VAR I want most of the time and I can live with some extended periods where a wait is needed to get it 100% right.

[Handsome_Devil]

13 minutes ago, eliphas said:

That's perfect then if it's checked every time and is so quick it's not noticed. That's the VAR I want most of the time and I can live with some extended periods where a wait is needed to get it 100% right.

Yeah, that's where it comes down to subjective preference and there will never be universal agreement.

[Ron Aldo]

VAR is shite and I personally hope it comes nowhere near our game. I could *just* about accept it in cup finals but for the likes of Motherwell v St Mirren it can get in the bin.

As others have said, every team gets decisions for and against them and while it can be annoying it's part of what makes games great IMO. I cannot be one but fucked waiting with bated breath every other week in case KVV was offside by an armpit or some pish like that.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Also, something about the fact we refer to an entire era of the club's history as "The Thunderdome" makes me think increased scrutiny from referees might not be to our advantage. 

[thisGRAEME]

51 minutes ago, Desp said:

VAR needs, what, three officials in the wee hut?  I'm assuming that will be three additional officials for each game.  Where are they currently? 

I think that it will be a centralised service, with referees reviewing feeds of the game from a central location. Which I would assume will reduce the number of referees required.

[Blink182]

As someone else mentioned I think Scotland is the only country in the top 25 European Leagues that doesn't have VAR (or due to have it). 

It's part of modern football. Time to move with the times instead of another moan about the glory days and how it used to be.

I'm for VAR and think it's a good time to join on after a few seasons for other leagues to sort out the mess it was to begin with. As discussed it should be there to check for any clear and obvious errors and offsides. If it takes a minute or 2 then fine. I'd rather have the right decision made slowly than the wrong one quickly. 

People not celebrating a goal as much I don't get either. Unless there's been a clear foul why wouldn't you celebrate as normal. Plus you have the added enjoyment of a VAR sometimes taking a goal away from the opposition to celebrate after their initial celebration which can be a bonus. 

 

 

[Mr. Brightside]

Getting VAR because other leagues have it has got to be the worst reason going.