Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

9 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

Am I right in saying that technically he has only agreed with Utd to sign a PCA as he can't sign it until January? Anyway, I assume we can't send him out on loan without his agreement even if we were allowed to.

And Happy Birthday Tony

If his contract runs until the end of May, the six month period where he could negotiate would be the end of November?

[Ric]

42 minutes ago, ropy said:

Different situation 

How?

From the outside it is exactly the same situation.

[ropy]

6 minutes ago, Ric said:

How?

From the outside it is exactly the same situation.

In Watt’s scenario Motherwell are Brophy’s Kilmarnock.  In Brophy’s scenario there’s no equivalent of Watt’s Kilmarnock.

There was no third club for Brophy.

[Kapowzer]

Advocating Tony acquiring new Scottish clubs quicker than I did Panini stickers back in the day.

Major oversight here:

"Tony, bit miffed at the whole situation here, want to bugger off to Ayrshire and drop a division?"

"Naw!"

[Desp]

Aye, we could certainly loan Tony Watt to Dundee Utd for the rest of the season (same as Brophy to St Mirren) and he wouldn't be able to play against Motherwell this season.

What Joe is suggesting, I believe, is that he cannot go to a "3rd club" for the remainder of this season on loan.  I have no idea whether this is a rule or not, but I certainly can't think of an example where this has happened.

If we can afford it, I'd be very up for the idea of bringing in a replacement in January and leaving TW on the bench/stand for the rest of the season.  I really can't see Utd stumping up the cash that would it make it worth our while to give them a player of his quality now, when they are a direct rival for Top 6/Euro spots.  You'd be looking at upwards of £250k to deal now?  At least?

[ropy]

2 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Advocating Tony acquiring new Scottish clubs quicker than I did Panini stickers back in the day.

Major oversight here:

"Tony, bit miffed at the whole situation here, want to bugger off to Ayrshire and drop a division?"

"Naw!"

Obviously the other contender was Newcastle with a £5M loan fee

[Ric]

9 minutes ago, ropy said:

In Watt’s scenario Motherwell are Brophy’s Kilmarnock.  In Brophy’s scenario there’s no equivalent of Watt’s Kilmarnock.

There was no third club for Brophy.

You'll forgive me, but you'll need to expand on that as it makes no sense to me.

A player agrees a PCA, and the club agrees a loan to the club he intends to sign with. That was the situation with Brophy and I am unsure as to why that couldn't be the situation for Watt.

 

 

[ropy]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

You'll forgive me, but you'll need to expand on that as it makes no sense to me.

A player agrees a PCA, and the club agrees a loan to the club he intends to sign with. That was the situation with Brophy and I am unsure as to why that couldn't be the situation for Watt.

 

 

The scenario under discussion is a loan to Kilmarnock, not United

[Ric]

Just now, ropy said:

The scenario under discussion is a loan to Kilmarnock, not United

That explains why I was not getting it, but again I cannot see why that is not allowed.

The PCA has _f*ck all_ to do with what he and his current club do.

[ropy]

4 minutes ago, Desp said:

Aye, we could certainly loan Tony Watt to Dundee Utd for the rest of the season (same as Brophy to St Mirren) and he wouldn't be able to play against Motherwell this season.

What Joe is suggesting, I believe, is that he cannot go to a "3rd club" for the remainder of this season on loan.  I have no idea whether this is a rule or not, but I certainly can't think of an example where this has happened.

If we can afford it, I'd be very up for the idea of bringing in a replacement in January and leaving TW on the bench/stand for the rest of the season.  I really can't see Utd stumping up the cash that would it make it worth our while to give them a player of his quality now, when they are a direct rival for Top 6/Euro spots.  You'd be looking at upwards of £250k to deal now?  At least?

He can register for and play for two teams in a season (he can sign for a third). He won’t register for United until the summer so that arrangement plays no part in this season.

[ropy]

3 minutes ago, Ric said:

That explains why I was not getting it, but again I cannot see why that is not allowed.

The PCA has _f*ck all_ to do with what he and his current club do.

That is my point, a middle ground between on one hand sitting in the stand and on the other scoring for United is that he is loaned out (of the way).

Edited December 29, 2021 by ropy

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, ropy said:

That is my point, a middle to ground between on one hand sitting in the stand and on the other scoring for United is that he is loaned out (of the way).

Right then, I'm now more confused as to why anyone would think that is not possible. Watt is contracted to Motherwell and will remain so unless both he and the club accept a change in his contract or he is sacked (gross misconduct), it's irrelevant who he signed the PCA with, as the only thing it would legally stop is Watt signing for someone else once their contract is complete at Motherwell. Even then, I don't believe there is any legal precedent with that. Any time a PCA has been agreed then not signed later seems to be the case where both club and player agree to the change - as you'd expect with a contract.

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Ric

[Kapowzer]

Does this Kilmarnock thing have any basis in truth? Has it been reported (if so, what is the source) they are interested or is it a hypothetical exercise since we have no interest in selling him early to Dundee Utd, many feel he'll down tools (no evidence of that), fans will turn on him or GA has spat the dummy?

[Ric]

Out of interest, was there a reason his PCA was announced so early? Normally you'll get rumours and hints, but the club(s) and/or player rarely makes it official - for all the obvious reasons.

[ropy]

17 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Does this Kilmarnock thing have any basis in truth? Has it been reported (if so, what is the source) they are interested or is it a hypothetical exercise since we have no interest in selling him early to Dundee Utd, many feel he'll down tools (no evidence of that), fans will turn on him or GA has spat the dummy?

The caveat on the hypothetical scenario was that GA didn’t trust him to put the effort in

[Desp]

11 minutes ago, Ric said:

Out of interest, was there a reason his PCA was announced so early? Normally you'll get rumours and hints, but the club(s) and/or player rarely makes it official - for all the obvious reasons.

I don't believe either club or Tony Watt (to my knowledge) has officially said it is happening yet.  

[ropy]

17 minutes ago, Ric said:

Out of interest, was there a reason his PCA was announced so early? Normally you'll get rumours and hints, but the club(s) and/or player rarely makes it official - for all the obvious reasons.

I don’t know who disclosed (leaked) it.  Little value in Motherwell leaking it, United or the agent might be trying to stir things up for an early move. Could just have been a journalist who heard a snippet, took a flier and struck gold.

If things had been kept quiet until May then Watt would have been banging them in for the rest of the season and the ‘Well fans would have shrugged their shoulders when he left at the end of the season.

Edited December 29, 2021 by ropy

[Ric]

9 minutes ago, Desp said:

I don't believe either club or Tony Watt (to my knowledge) has officially said it is happening yet.  

The fact it's reported on the BBC with the Motherwell assistant manager commenting on it to the media would suggest there has been some official confirmation, even if that is verbal and not a press release, although I'm sure both United and/or Motherwell fans will know better than me as they'll be scouring everything for some comment on the matter.

[ropy]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

The fact it's reported on the BBC with the Motherwell assistant manager commenting on it to the media would suggest there has been some official confirmation, even if that is verbal and not a press release, although I'm sure both United and/or Motherwell fans will know better than me as they'll be scouring everything for some comment on the matter.

"We'll just see what happens with Tony," said Lucketti. "While Tony is here I'm sure he'll give everything to the cause."
 

Sounds like he was asked about the speculation and gave a nothing answer based on his contract ending in the summer.

[Ric]

15 minutes ago, ropy said:

I don’t know who disclosed (leaked) it.  Little value in Motherwell leaking it, United or the agent might be trying to stir things up for an early move. Could just have been a journalist who heard a snippet, took a flier and struck gold.

If things had been kept quiet until May then Watt would have been banging them in for the rest of the season and the ‘Well fans would have shrugged their shoulders when he left at the end of the season.

It's obviously really difficult to keep it a secret.

 

I was trying to think if we've ever been in this position, and there are only two incidents I can think of off the top of my head and that would be Lewis Morgan and Kirk Boradfoot. Both different situations, as Morgan was sold but immediately came back on loan as part of the deal - obvs no relevance there. Broadfoot was going to Rangers, but he was a youth team player who was moving up in his career going to a much bigger club which is certainly not the case with Watt. Interestingly Broadfoot played very well in his last 6 months, even though his move to Rangers was known long before the end of it.

 

1 minute ago, ropy said:

Sounds like he was asked about the speculation and gave a nothing answer based on his contract ending in the summer.

Yeah, it's a pretty short piece, perhaps because it's not official yet, and doesn't really give us the context of his answer. Thing with the BBC is, and you know this, they are almost frightened to run a story that isn't 100% nailed on. The rags will run with anything, as we've all seen.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Ric