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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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8 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Aye, on the face of it it's up in the air. Doubly so because of the Kelly situation as well - I mean, we've been extra public about wanting him so it suggests that we're after another GK one way or another and it doesn't seem like a decision will be made until later in the window until QPR work out what they're doing.

Given Alexander's chat about wanting players in whose fitness we can rely on then rightly or wrongly it puts a question mark over whether he'd be happy to go into the season with Carson as his #1 and if that's not the case where does it leave Trev? Do Morecambe happen to need a 'keeper by chance?

Tbh, I get the impression from Fox that he'd be happy enough to take a squad role as long as he's getting paid though,

I think Fox is more than happy to be a squad player, it does however pose more questions than answers. I’m worried about Carson going into next season as number one given his injury record and don’t think Fox is a regular number one, more someone playing the odd game or two. 

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On 06/06/2021 at 21:17, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Lafferty scores goals at this level, we'd be daft not to inquire, I don't think he'll sign.

I think that'll be that then...

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1 hour ago, Yorky said:

I think Fox is more than happy to be a squad player, it does however pose more questions than answers. I’m worried about Carson going into next season as number one given his injury record and don’t think Fox is a regular number one, more someone playing the odd game or two. 

Aye, I think that's the point though. The fact we've been as open about wanting to keep hold of Kelly suggests that we're not 100% on Carson as our #1 either but the year he has left on his deal is the elephant in the room. It raises the question if he's happy to sit on the bench and be back up after his injury hell or not.

Personally I'd be much happier going into the season with Kelly Carson and Fox as a 3rd choice with Morrison getting a full season on loan in the Championship than I would a repeat of the shitshow we saw this season with 'keepers all over the place.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not so sure on the Kelly v Carson take.  

I think it's more that Kelly performed so well that we'd have been crazy not to try and extend the deal for another season. He made some positive noises too so it gathered a bit of momentum. Rather than we wanted to/needed to replace Carson. Carson would also likely understand if he did sign given he watched Kelly come in and do so well. 

Kelly would be great to have back but the club could also feel that Carson is ready to play again and can play at the previous level. So, if the Kelly deal doesn't pan out we don't necessarily need to get another goalie in.

Can we/should we carry 2 legitimate first team goalies and the wages that come with that? Probably not. Last season was a freakshow of injuries.

As for Lafferty, I'd have been fine with him coming in. But if he doesn't also fine. 

Edited by superward
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, superward said:

I'm not so sure on the Kelly v Carson take.  

I think it's more that Kelly performed so well that we'd have been crazy not to try and extend the deal for another season. He made some positive noises too so it gathered a bit of momentum. Rather than we wanted to/needed to replace Carson. Carson would also likely understand if he did sign given he watched Kelly come in and do so well. 

Kelly would be great to have back but the club could also feel that Carson is ready to play again and can play at the previous level. So, if the Kelly deal doesn't pan out we don't necessarily need to get another goalie in.

Aye, I mean, it's entirely possible that I'm a mile out with that but it just feels difficult to square Alexander coming out talking about wanting to run with a smaller squad and having players we can rely on for 40-50 games with making an (albeit excellent) goalkeeper who's managed 24 league games in the past 3 seasons his #1 going into the new season.

(Mea culpa, I should acknowledge that a fair chunk of those games he missed will have been down to losing his place to Gillespie rather than injury)

For avoidance of doubt, absolutely none of that is a criticism of Carson. He's an outstanding goalkeeper who's had utterly shite luck with injuries and probably wasn't helped by us rushing him back in December.

Edited by capt_oats
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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I don't disagree either to be honest. 

However, playing devil's advocate here, if I was GA, and told he had only played 20 odd games in 3 seasons and asked why,  you'd hope he would be told: 

- Trev was out most of 2018/19 with DVT. That isn't an injury in the sense we all normally talk about. So, unless that has an ongoing concern that should really be discounted. 

- 2019/2020 he was kept out the team by Gillespie and then the season kyboshed in March. Gillespie getting a move off the back of his form to Newcastle.

- 2020/2021 is back in the team and plays 16 games, including a run out for N. Ireland.  We, arguably, rush him back within about two months, only for him to do it again. 

So for me, the key question, is last season. Are those knee injuries a  problem likely to re-occur to a 33 year old goalie, or are they now 'fixed' DT10 stylee, with a good % chance if not reoccurring. 

All based on the premise he is still a gid goalie of course! 

 

 

Edited by superward
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36 minutes ago, superward said:

Yeah, I don't disagree either to be honest. 

However, playing devil's advocate here, if I was GA, and told he had only played 20 odd games in 3 seasons and asked why,  you'd hope he would be told: 

- Trev was out most of 2018/19 with DVT. That isn't an injury in the sense we all normally talk about. So, unless that has an ongoing concern that should really be discounted. 

- 2019/2020 he was kept out the team by Gillespie and then the season kyboshed in March. Gillespie getting a move off the back of his form to Newcastle.

- 2020/2021 is back in the team and plays 16 games, including a run out for N. Ireland.  We, arguably, rush him back within about two months, only for him to do it again. 

So for me, the key question, is last season. Are those knee injuries a  problem likely to re-occur to a 33 year old goalie, or are they now 'fixed' DT10 stylee, with a good % chance if not reoccurring. 

All based on the premise he is still a gid goalie of course! 

:lol: I had made a couple of edits to my original post, presumably while you were typing that.

100% agree, there has to be context and overlooking or omitting Gillespie keeping Carson out the team is pretty disingenuous and it's unfair to imply that the games where he wasn't starting were entirely injury related.

I think it's fair to say there's a definite question mark there though and equally I don't think Fox signing necessarily means "the club is confident Carson will be fit and stay fit", as I saw someone suggesting on SO. I just see Fox signing as a probable indication that Morrison will be going out on loan.

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Posted (edited)

That's yer Decanter off to Barnsley then.

Absolutely fair play. He's not about to kb a move to a Championship side (and one he's already played for).

Edit: @Casagolda beat me to it.

Edited by capt_oats
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Fair play to him, that's a much better move than I was expecting him to get. I thought top end League One/bottom end Championship would have been his level, but to land at a team that was in the playoffs, probably (at least) treble your wages and get to live close to home (assuming he lives in Manchester) then it's a bit of a no brainer. 

That's the spine of last years team away now (Kelly, Dec, Campbell and Cole) so a real chance for GA to put his stamp on the squad. 

Announce Moult. 

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The one player I really wanted to keep. There was a point in the 2nd half of the season where Cole was looking too good (and I said so at the time). He was scoring of course but he was also doing turns and running away from defenders that made him look like a higher level player and lo and behold, he is one - so quite gutted about that.

The decks are probably as clear as they are going to get now - so it's going to be a pretty unrecognisable team next season, which is what we all wanted, right?

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1 minute ago, Swello said:

The one player I really wanted to keep. There was a point in the 2nd half of the season where Cole was looking too good (and I said so at the time). He was scoring of course but he was also doing turns and running away from defenders that made him look like a higher level player and lo and behold, he is one - so quite gutted about that.

The decks are probably as clear as they are going to get now - so it's going to be a pretty unrecognisable team next season, which is what we all wanted, right?

My minor worry about Devante was that we'd go all in on him then find that his form since January was a purple patch and we'd see him going back to looking good but without the goals.

I don't mean that in a "didn't fancy her anyway" sort of thing it's just that this season (or more specifically Jan - May 21) seemed like a genuine outlier compared with the rest of his career - certainly as far as goal return goes.

Clearly I'd absolutely have kept him on but either way absolutely fair fucking play to him. Barnsley's a good move for him for the reasons @dezz points out and to echo @Neil86 it's a good look for us that it's another of our players moving on to a Championship level club.

Back at the end of the season Alexander was quoted as saying he expected between 7-10 players in. I took that to be dictated by who he wanted to keep actually signing up so I'm guessing we're looking at at least 8 or 9 new bodies now.

Anyway, about Louis Moult...

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