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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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Sounds like the lack of reserve/youth football has resulted in the majority of the youngsters being binned. We must be bringing in a lot of 16 year old at a guess.

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1 hour ago, Swello said:

I guess the function of the Academy is two things. Firstly (and arguably most importantly) we need to produce players that can play at our level so that we can run our squad at a reasonable cost (young boys are paid less basically). Secondly, we want to produce "some" players that are good enough to move up a level and generate some money for us in development and transfer fees. 

We've overachieved in the 2nd part in recent years (Turnbull, Hastie, Scott, Campbell, Cadden , Mckinstry, etc) and that probably shouldn't be seen as a guide to how we will do from now on - but as a minimum, we need to be moving players into the first team squad and getting them proper time in the team. 

I seem to remember either Craigan or Ross (maybe both) talking about that and saying (I'm paraphrasing) that of each 'cycle' you'd be hoping for one or maybe two being able to make the step up to the first team. Which sounds about right but also accounts for the wastage that you see on an annual basis with youth players being released.

Where our 'golden generation' outperformed there's an obvious argument that we've underperformed on that metric with this current group in so much as Dean Cornelius is the only one of that particular 'class' who's been offered an extension (although I'm still not clear on David Devine's situation) and there's barely been a first team appearance between the group.

Whose fault that is IDK players themselves, management, coaching, Covid, a combination of all of the above?

In a broader sense, I think it's fair comment to suggest there needs to be a reappraisal of what 'development' looks like going forward. With the 'Rona and no Reserve football we've seen a group of players pretty much kicking their heels save training through the week and a handful being loaned out without making much of a dent at any of their clubs.

Unless I've missed something really obvious (and acknowledging that their roles had changed due to the current 'circumstances') that's both O'Carroll and Ross left the club since January and under normal circumstances they would have been filling the gap that bridges Academy to First Team.

I'm interested to see what the club has actually learned (if anything) when the dust settles on this season.

On the GTFO list, whilst clearly not happy at the thought of folk losing their jobs etc, overall it's reassuring that we've gone the way we have. With the Mugabi and Crawford extensions I had a thought that we may have taken a 'path of least resistance' route and handed out more deals to players who had done relatively well under Alexander so the "offered contracts" list may have been a bit more lengthy - who knows, maybe we did and they knocked them back.

Either way I'm fine with the 2 who I expect we've offered actual deals to (rather than 'invitations') and looking at the squad as it stands there's probably enough room for manoeuvre in terms of putting a new stamp on the team without having gone full scorched earth and leaving us scrambling just to have an XI.

Edited by capt_oats
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It's also subjective to what the "step-up" to first team level is defined as.

Outwith the admin years, where our finances almost dictated how many academy players were in the first team and the surge a couple of years ago where Hastie, Turnbull, Campbell and Scott all came to prominence at once, we've produced plenty of players like Darren Smith, Bob McHugh or Marc Fitzpatrick, but very few like Mark Reynolds or Jamie Murphy.

I don't think the lack of academy minutes is an issue isolated to Graham Alexander, just about every Motherwell manager has been guilty of it over the years. 

For example, us signing someone as average as Casagolda to put McHugh down the pecking order, or re-signing Stephen Hughes on a short-term contract with Forbes and Carswell sitting on the bench. There's always been a bit of me that thinks the plaudits we get for playing young players are slightly exagerrated.

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1 hour ago, 'WellDel said:

You may well be party to information or knowledge that I and others aren't, but I just don't see the club deviating too far from 'the model' that our whole player development and recruitment policy is based on. Surely Alexander would have come in with that as part of his remit, rather than an option he could choose to put low in his priorities. If that had been any of the candidates take on things, I'd like to have thought their interview wouldn't have lasted long. 

What is this definite shift, and how badly is it going to affect young guys chances of breaking through to the first team squad? 

Outwith the usual revenue streams of season tickets, tv money etc, our main hope of substantial extra income is by unearthing a gem or developing one of our own to sell on or gain compensation for. It'd be a pretty big shift to alter that too much and risk lessening the chance of attracting the best youngsters to come to us in the first place. 

I don't think you can put too much weight behind the lack of playing opportunities for them in that cluster f**k of a season, when our safety was still in doubt up until the last couple of games. Not being argumentative, but just interested to see where people are seeing this definite shift coming from. 

Answered your own question with your opening gambit.

How badly it may affect those involved may take seasons to realise - just the nature of development football.

Weight can be put on lack of opportunity. Playing experience is essential, although I’m mindful it isn't career ending if they’re not seeing as many minutes at a young age - there is a big difference in the soundbite though which for those only interested in the current form table won’t or refuse to buy into.

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I have been watching the half hour BBC highlights of the women’s games on a Sunday, anyone else taking an interest, we seem to keep beating Hearts?

Not really surprising. Whenever I see the women’s table pop up on Twitter, Hearts always seem to be bottom.

Did the see the horror tackle in the game vs Celtic a few weeks ago which the ref only judged to be a yellow. Some things never change...
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It's mad to think that with left-backs alone, in the January window we've signed Danny Murphy, Tony Straker, Stephen Hendrie and Gary Bollan.

If we hadn't signed Hammell the second time in January, I would have suggested a permanent ban from signing left-backs at that point.

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Fairly dull post but looking at the GTFO list I was curious to see how many appearances those released/moving on/loans ending had made this season:

  • Allan Campbell (40) - 40 starts 0 subs 5 goals
  • Declan Gallagher (36) 34 starts 2 subs 1 goal
  • Christopher Long (34) - 25 starts 9 subs 6 goals
  • Liam Polworth (25) - 22 starts 3 subs 1 goal
  • Liam Kelly (21) - 21 starts 0  subs 0 goals
  • Jake Hastie (17) - 7 starts 10 subs 0 goals
  • Sherwin Seedorf - (13) 6 starts 7 subs 0 goals
  • Tyler Magloire (12) - 10 starts 2 subs 0 goals
  • Jordan Roberts (8) - 6 starts 2 subs 3 goals
  • Aaron Chapman (7) - 5 starts 2 subs 0 goals
  • Harry Smith (5) - 0 starts 5 subs 0 goals
  • Sam Foley (5) - 3 starts 2 subs 1 goal
  • Harry Robinson (2) - 0 starts 2 subs 0 goals
  • Ross MacIver (1) - 0 starts 1 sub 0 goals
  • Findlay Cook (0)
  • Paul Hale (0)
  • Yusuf Hussain (0)
  • Matthew McDonald (0)
  • Sam Muir (0)
  • Lewis Robertson (0)
  • Jamie Semple (0)
  • Cammy Williamson (0)
  • Eddie Nolan (0)

Lifted from Wiki and the First Team page of the OS.

Edited by capt_oats
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I think for the full picture we need additional stat counts... 'Sold The Jersey'  'Couldnae Be Arsed' 'Toys Oot The Pram' 'Tripped Over His Own Feet' .... that kind of stuff.  

Alan Campbell needs some sort of special 'True ML1 Main Man' stat conjured up, to demonstrate just what we're going to be missing :(

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