Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, AmericanFan said:

How much talk of paneer, naan and Indian takeaway is there on Steelmen?

As @well fan for life says, not nearly enough.

Fwiw, for all I can be pretty snarky about it there are a bunch of good, informative posters over there (and there are a few who post in this thread also contribute). It just (to me) suffers from the same sort of shortcomings as most one club forums in so much as it's pretty one eyed and lacks a bit of perspective. There's also a general negativity that definitely grinds you down.

I don't know if this is actually the case but it's always felt to me like the demographic skews older and younger than the good brothers here on P&B.

I used to post fairly regularly but I think I've posted about once in the past two years and, like WFFL, reading some of the wild takes when I dip in is a reminder of why I stopped.

Essentially, Steelmen Online is Dave Franco (Greg) to this forum's Michael Cera:

Edited May 10, 2021 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

It's usually summed up by a thread grilling the managers shortcomings popping up after he's been in charge for 2 games.  

[RostokMcSpoons]

3 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

It's usually summed up by a thread grilling the managers shortcomings popping up after he's been in charge for 2 games.  

I think a few of us (present company included) will have lost the plot in the middle of February, because of the St J and Hamilton games, and the utterly abject performances in them (iirc).
Frankly I was convinced we were doomed, and deserved the drop.

The difference is most of us here are ready to see the upturn in performances after those games as signs of a manager adapting, whereas Steelmen forumites seem to enjoy swimming in their own boiling piss, given half a chance.

Each to their own

[ropy]

I started on Steelmenonline so feel some loyalty to it, however my favourite trait is when someone raises an issue then two posts and 15 minutes later ‘the silence from the club is deafening’

[well fan for life]

18 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I think a few of us (present company included) will have lost the plot in the middle of February, because of the St J and Hamilton games, and the utterly abject performances in them (iirc).
Frankly I was convinced we were doomed, and deserved the drop.

The difference is most of us here are ready to see the upturn in performances after those games as signs of a manager adapting, whereas Steelmen forumites seem to enjoy swimming in their own boiling piss, given half a chance.

Each to their own

I think I was mainly pissed off at the players and fully agree there was a point where we looked like we'd be deservedly relegated. 

But that sweet, sweet released list should be out in a week or two.

[capt_oats]

13 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I think I was mainly pissed off at the players and fully agree there was a point where we looked like we'd be deservedly relegated. 

But that sweet, sweet released list should be out in a week or two.

I'd guess Monday or Tuesday next week going by the timing of previous "Squad Updates".

Edited May 10, 2021 by capt_oats

[Archie McSquackle]

I know injuries played their part but the impact (or lack of) made by Alexander's January signings tempers my enthusiasm for getting shot of a lot of this season's dross. Maybe I should be on Steelmen.

[capt_oats]

24 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

I know injuries played their part but the impact (or lack of) made by Alexander's January signings tempers my enthusiasm for getting shot of a lot of this season's dross. Maybe I should be on Steelmen.

Tbh, I can understand that but from my POV the January window was a write off.

Robinson had pretty much maxed out our squad (even more so given the loans like Robinson, Semple, Morrison etc were recalled) so while Lang went back to Wigan, Archer moved to Boro and White to County we were (IMO) still pretty limited in who we could reasonably bring in and I think Alexander has actually been proven correct when he was saying that he didn't feel there was much wrong with the squad he inherited and we had good players in the building.

Sure, there might have been an element of not wanting to go full Butcher and antagonise a dressing room that seemed to already have a lot going on behind the scenes but overall it feels like even if it was just to bring in a few new faces without an expectation of them playing much (Smith for example was just a straight swap for White) the end justified the means. I wouldn't like us to make this a policy going forward but given the circumstances (especially with the pandemic and the fact the manager was literally just in the door) then it is what it is - we stayed up and Eddie Nolan can become a pub quiz question.

My enthusiasm for the GTFO list is really down to us getting shot of players who clearly couldn't wait to "get out of this shithole" (as Mrs Polworth eloquently put it) and Alexander at least having the opportunity to put a stamp on the team with more than a couple of weeks notice (and with the benefit of a few months having been in the job and working in the league).

Fwiw, I'm not entirely convinced we'll be cutting a lot loose and I definitely have a feeling that it'll be as tough a sell to get players up from England as it was last summer (unless they're folk who either have family up here and are looking to get back up the road or have played up here before and are comfortable with moving). Based on nothing beyond my own gut I still have a feeling he'll be leaning quite heavily on the recruitment staff at the club rather than his own contacts though.

Edited May 10, 2021 by capt_oats

[Onthefringes]

22 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Tbh, I can understand that but from my POV the January window was a write off.

Robinson had pretty much maxed out our squad (even more so given the loans like Robinson, Semple, Morrison etc were recalled) so while Lang went back to Wigan, Archer moved to Boro and White to County we were (IMO) still pretty limited in who we could reasonably bring in and I think Alexander has actually been proven correct when he was saying that he didn't feel there was much wrong with the squad he inherited and we had good players in the building.

Sure, there might have been an element of not wanting to go full Butcher and antagonise a dressing room that seemed to already have a lot going on behind the scenes but overall it feels like even if it was just to bring in a few new faces without an expectation of them playing much (Smith for example was just a straight swap for White) the end justified the means. I wouldn't like us to make this a policy going forward but given the circumstances (especially with the pandemic and the fact the manager was literally just in the door) then it is what it is - we stayed up and Eddie Nolan can become a pub quiz question.

My enthusiasm for the GTFO list is really down to us getting shot of players who clearly couldn't wait to "get out of this shithole" (as Mrs Polworth eloquently put it) and Alexander at least having the opportunity to put a stamp on the team with more than a couple of weeks notice (and with the benefit of a few months having been in the job and working in the league).

Fwiw, I'm not entirely convinced we'll be cutting a lot loose and I definitely have a feeling that it'll be as tough a sell to get players up from England as it was last summer (unless they're folk who either have family up here and are looking to get back up the road or have played up here before and are comfortable with moving). Based on nothing beyond my own gut I still have a feeling he'll be leaning quite heavily on the recruitment staff at the club rather than his own contacts though.

I’d doubt that...

[ropy]

If Eddie Nolan enjoyed his scrambled egg on that one visit he will be straight back up the road in July.

[capt_oats]

6 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

I’d doubt that...

My gut is never to be trusted OTF...

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

The difference between here and Steelmen Online for me is that points are made with decent reason on this thread, whereas it seems people are unable to make a point without losing their head over there.

Looking back on the games rationally now, I would say the only one that merits proper criticism is the Killie game. There were factors that went against him in the St. Johnstone and Accies game that he couldn't control. Looking at St. Johnstone having made top six and now made two cup finals, them tearing us apart when we have 17 players out isn't that inconceivable. The Accies game, although we started on the back foot, there's no doubting that O'Donnell's red card totally finished the game off. 

[Onthefringes]

19 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

The difference between here and Steelmen Online for me is that points are made with decent reason on this thread, whereas it seems people are unable to make a point without losing their head over there.

Looking back on the games rationally now, I would say the only one that merits proper criticism is the Killie game. There were factors that went against him in the St. Johnstone and Accies game that he couldn't control. Looking at St. Johnstone having made top six and now made two cup finals, them tearing us apart when we have 17 players out isn't that inconceivable. The Accies game, although we started on the back foot, there's no doubting that O'Donnell's red card totally finished the game off. 

Disagree on the St Johnstone match Joe. Screamed of not learning from his mistakes for me. Nothing against their achievements, he knew what we had available and set up in similar fashion as the weeks previously rather alter to be compact and harder to beat, defeat was on him. 

[well fan for life]

11 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

The difference between here and Steelmen Online for me is that points are made with decent reason on this thread, whereas it seems people are unable to make a point without losing their head over there.

Looking back on the games rationally now, I would say the only one that merits proper criticism is the Killie game. There were factors that went against him in the St. Johnstone and Accies game that he couldn't control. Looking at St. Johnstone having made top six and now made two cup finals, them tearing us apart when we have 17 players out isn't that inconceivable. The Accies game, although we started on the back foot, there's no doubting that O'Donnell's red card totally finished the game off. 

The games where we've really fucking phoned it in seem to have always been games where we looked like we weren't interested. The factors that went against him in those two games were mainly O'Donnell picking up a stupid red card and L*am P*lworth being totally fucking dog shit.

[capt_oats]

9 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Disagree on the St Johnstone match Joe. Screamed of not learning from his mistakes for me. Nothing against their achievements, he knew what we had available and set up in similar fashion as the weeks previously rather alter to be compact and harder to beat, defeat was on him. 

 

6 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

The games where we've really fucking phoned it in seem to have always been games where we looked like we weren't interested. The factors that went against him in those two games were mainly O'Donnell picking up a stupid red card and L*am P*lworth being totally fucking dog shit.

I think @Onthefringes makes a fair point in terms of the St Johnstone game in so much as we were still trying to play out from the back and the like. It just didn't work on any level. I totally agree that the circumstances mitigated things but trying to replicate what we had been doing with half a team out injured/unavailable seems (in hindsight) pretty naive - especially after what happened against Accies (that game was dead by the time he realised that he wasn't going to be able to treat it the same as the Aberdeen game when we went down to 10 men ie: keep our forwards on).

It's kind of why I found the criticism about the fact we seemed to be grinding out results after that a weird take (particularly the Accies 1-0 win). Post the St Johnstone defeat seemed to be the point at which there was a clear change in our approach.

From the 0-0 with St Mirren onwards we stopped having the centre backs splitting at goal kicks and just generally became that bit more direct and more risk averse compared to when Alexander was just in the door.

[Swello]

I think when the post mortem of this season is written - there'll be a few things that stand out.

Firstly, due mainly to "knee", we've ended up with huge un-focussed squad and the team has never really fully settled down (although it has been better lately). Maybe the worst season for injuries (and "injuries") ever.

You've had a massively unreliable group of "senior" pro's who either didn't want to be in ML1 or were *really* inconsistent. Guys that we know are good players, weren't - or at least not often enough. Only Watt, Kelly and Cole will come out with a gold star for their work this term IMO.

You had a manager who had done a good job previously but had clearly hit his sell-by date at the club and needed emptied mid-season. Alexander was the correct appointment - style aside, his win record justifies his appointment. 

All that being said - we could actually finish 7th, which could never really be viewed as unacceptable for Motherwell - and even the worst case of 9th will still be comfortably off the bottom 2 places, which we looking destined for at the low points of the season.

Overall, laptop fitba has led to it being the most dismal season in my time watching us - by a massive fucking distance - and I am itching to get back to games. f**k being an armchair supporter, don't know how they manage it.

 

['WellDel]

Alexander must get credit for getting enough of a tune out of what he's had available to, fairly comfortably, keep us up in the end. To use music as a comparison though, it's been like watching a group of tone deaf primary school kids at assembly torturing three blind mice on their recorders - one or two of them are semi competent so you recognise the tune but you're glad when it's over, clap politely and hope to f**k never to hear it again. Exactly the same as my wish with this season/team. 

This mob has produced something kinda like football, but once the majority of the semi competent ones depart in a couple of weeks there's not much left that offer hope of good things for next season. We can't possibly go into a new season with Lamie and Mugabi as our main central defenders, we have zero creativity in midfield, and up front, if Decanter goes we're left with only Watt who has any real quality, and even at that his actual goal threat is levels below what it should be. 

So yes, the manager has come in and done well with his limited resources, and factors outwith the actual fitba might still be in play making it harder to entice players to move up here. A full on bin fire is still required though imho, and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out. 

[ropy]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

 

Overall, laptop fitba has led to it being the most dismal season in my time watching us - by a massive fucking distance - and I am itching to get back to games. f**k being an armchair supporter, don't know how they manage it.

 

Weaning myself off the two cans by half time then a triple rum with can of coke and ice for the second half is going to be an issue as I gear up for a season back at Fir Park.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Recruitment this summer definitely will be interesting.

In defence, I reckon we'll see one or two tops coming in. We've already got O'Donnell, Grimmy and Johnston at right back and Carroll and now McGinley at left-back, so I can't see any full-backs coming in. In the centre we have Lamie and Mugabi signed up already and supposedly that is McGinley's favoured position too. We obviously have Gallagher to replace and that's one I feel we absolutely have to get right, as the rest of our centre half options I'd be fine with as backups/also rans, but not as our top centre-half. 

Similarly in midfield we have Crawford, Maguire, O'Hara and Donnelly already signed up and there are a lot of similar attributes among them, which might count against Foley being kept on, even if he does have two blinders in the remaining games, as he's like many of them too. A creative centre-midfielder would be the top priority in there.

Then there's up front - only Watt and the disappointing Lawless signed up. So it looks like we need to bring around four there, or if Cole stays three. 

I'd say a goalkeeper is required too, whether that's as competition to Carson, or as a number 1. We'd all love that to be Kelly but I find that unrealistic.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Recruitment this summer definitely will be interesting.

In defence, I reckon we'll see one or two tops coming in. We've already got O'Donnell, Grimmy and Johnston at right back and Carroll and now McGinley at left-back, so I can't see any full-backs coming in. In the centre we have Lamie and Mugabi signed up already and supposedly that is McGinley's favoured position too. We obviously have Gallagher to replace and that's one I feel we absolutely have to get right, as the rest of our centre half options I'd be fine with as backups/also rans, but not as our top centre-half. 

Similarly in midfield we have Crawford, Maguire, O'Hara and Donnelly already signed up and there are a lot of similar attributes among them, which might count against Foley being kept on, even if he does have two blinders in the remaining games, as he's like many of them too. A creative centre-midfielder would be the top priority in there.

Then there's up front - only Watt and the disappointing Lawless signed up. So it looks like we need to bring around four there, or if Cole stays three. 

I'd say a goalkeeper is required too, whether that's as competition to Carson, or as a number 1. We'd all love that to be Kelly but I find that unrealistic.

100% agree it will be interesting. Especially after 3 seasons where we had a fairly good idea of what the "profile" of player we'd be looking at was. Alexander seems a bit less wedded to the same sort of "profile" Robinson was. If nothing else I kind of hope that the talk about wanting a smaller squad means we'll park the sign 3 players and hope 1 comes good that Robinson seemed to apply on occasion as we've seen how that can bite us on the arse and the wastage it causes.

For all I'm saying that January was a lucky dip or trolley dash 4 of the 6 new signings after Alexander was in the door were loans and one of the permanent deals was only until the end of the season.

That feels less a strategy and more like a short term fix to see us til the end of the season and sort things out in the summer:

Lawless (30)
Smith (25)
Foley (34)
Roberts (27)
Nolan (32)
Magloire (22)

I've posted this before but these are the players currently contracted next season and while I'm not 100% certain either Crawford or O'Hara won't be Campbell's replacement I think these are the positions where there are gaps. Fully agree that the Gallagher and Polworth replacements are priorities that we really can't afford to f**k up.

Edited May 10, 2021 by capt_oats