Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

3 hours ago, capt_oats said:

It's a very minor point and a pretty small sample size but the fact that Robinson was unbeaten against Rodgers at Fir Park is a laugh.

29/11/17 - 1-1
18/03/18 - 0-0
05/12/18: 1-1

Robinson actually has a very decent home record against the OF. Think we've drew 5/6, the only loss being that weird 2-1 game against Rangers on the first day of 17/18. 

He's probably got a right to feel hard done by not to get at least a win or two out of that streak. Either way it's pretty nice going into OF games not feeling like we're as good as beat half the time, probably for the first time since I've actually followed football.

[capt_oats]

9 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Robinson actually has a very decent home record against the OF. Think we've drew 5/6, the only loss being that weird 2-1 game against Rangers on the first day of 17/18. 

He's probably got a right to feel hard done by not to get at least a win or two out of that streak. Either way it's pretty nice going into OF games not feeling like we're as good as beat half the time, probably for the first time since I've actually followed football.

Aye. I mean just looking generally home and away against both:

Home:
06/08/17 - Rangers: 1-2 (L)
29/11/17 - Celtic: 1-1 (X)
18/03/18 - Celtic: 0-0 (X)
31/03/18 - Rangers: 2-2 (X)
26/08/18 - Rangers: 3-3 (X)
05/12/18 - Celtic: 1-1 (X)

Away:
01/04/17 - Rangers: 1-1 (X)
02/12/17 - Celtic: 5-1 (L)
27/12/17 - Rangers: 2-0 (L)
11/11/18 - Rangers: 7-1 (L)
19/12/18 - Celtic: 3-0 (L)
24/02/19 - Celtic: 4-1 (L)

Neutral (Hampden) :
22/10/17 - Rangers 0-2 (W)
26/11/17 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
19/05/18 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)

P 15 W 1 D 6 L 8

In itself one win in 15 is hardly "woo hoo!" worthy but equally...not losing close to 50% of your games against The Old Firm (there is no Old Firm etc)...is, dare I say it, decent?

For context I've included McGhee's results for his 2nd stint and also McCall's in the spoiler below.

TL;DR = McGhee lost 90.9% of his games against them, McCall lost 72.7%. Robinson is 53.3%.

I mean it's up for debate how McCoist/Lennon/Deila's sides compare with Rodgers/Caixinha/Murty/Gerrard's teams and also how Robinson's resources compare against McCall and McGhee but there you go. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Working below:

Spoiler

McGhee:
Home:
17/10/15 - Celtic: 0-1 (L)
09/04/16 - Celtic: 1-2 (L)
03/12/16 - Celtic: 3-4 (L)
28/01/17 - Rangers: 0-2 (L)

Away:
19/12/15 - Celtic: 1-2 (W)
15/05/16 - Celtic: 7-0 (L)
09/08/16 - Celtic: 5-0 (L)
20/08/16 - Rangers: 2-1 (L)
15/10/16 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
21/01/17 - Rangers: 2-1 (L)
18/02/17 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)

P 11 W 1 D 0 L 10

McCall
Home:
27/02/11 - Celtic: 2-0 (W)
20/04/11 - Rangers: 0-5 (L)
21/08/11 - Rangers: 0-3 (L)
06/11/11 - Celtic: 1-2 (L)
31/03/12 - Celtic: 0-3 (L)
29/09/12 - Celtic: 0-2 (L)
27/02/13 - Celtic: 2-1 (W)
28/04/13 - Celtic: 3-1 (W)
06/12/13 - Celtic: 0-5 (L)
19/04/14 - Celtic: 3-3 (X)

Away:
12/02/11 - Rangers: 6-0 (L)
07/09/11 - Celtic: 4-0 (L)
02/01/12 - Rangers: 3-0 (L)
02/02/12 - Celtic: 1-0 (L)
05/05/12 - Rangers: 0-0 (X)
26/09/12 - Rangers*: 2-0 (L)
02/01/13 - Celtic: 0-1 (L)
05/10/13 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
18/01/14 - Celtic: 3-0 (L)
21/09/14 - Celtic: 1-1 (X)

Neutral (Hampden):
30/01/11 - Rangers: 1-2 (L)
21/05/11 - Celtic: 0-3 (L)

P 22 W 3 D 3 L 16

 

[nsr]

Wasn't McCall notorious for basically throwing in the towel before the game had even kicked off against original Rangers?

[Swello]

5 minutes ago, nsr said:

Wasn't McCall notorious for basically throwing in the towel before the game had even kicked off against original Rangers?

Both McGhee and McCall were bad for it - but McCall (despite me liking him as 'Well manager) was the worst of all time. His pre-match chat was the equivalent of listening to Pat Bonner on Sportsound. That league cup game where they were in the seaside leagues and we were in 2nd place with a good team where McCall labelled them the favourites and we got roundly pumped still triggers me now...

[Swello]

20 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

So we've seen off Pedro, Canning, Lennon and now Brendan.

Who's next aboard the MFCPAINTRAIN? 

Someone has been reading P&B........

[capt_oats]

9 minutes ago, nsr said:

Wasn't McCall notorious for basically throwing in the towel before the game had even kicked off against original Rangers?

 

1 minute ago, Swello said:

Both McGhee and McCall were bad for it - but McCall (despite me liking him as 'Well manager) was the worst of all time. His pre-match chat was the equivalent of listening to Pat Bonner on Sportsound. That league cup game where they were in the seaside leagues and we were in 2nd place with a good team where McCall labelled them the favourites and we got roundly pumped still triggers me now...

I mean...FFS!

[MJC]

McCall, McGhee and the case of Rangers more so, Butcher was notoriously bad for having us beat before a ball was kicked in these games.

Butcher spent the entire week ahead of the 2005 LCF telling all and sundry that he feared we would get a similar humping to the 7-1 humping Dundee United got off them in the semis and it was an honour to be on the same park as players of such quality. As it was we only lost 5-1 and the game was over inside 10 minutes.

I partly blame this sort of mentality on the attitude of many within the club to be honest, as there are so many of the mindset of "ah well, we are not expected to compete with the Old Firm anyway because we're only Motherwell" and some of our more recent managers who are familiar with the goldfish bowl of Scottish football bought into this.

It was telling that only two Motherwell managers to have overseen victories over Rangers in recent times have been Robinson and Baraclough, two 'outsiders'. Under them we actually played what was in front of us and not simply the name 'Rangers'.

Edited February 27, 2019 by MJC

[thisGRAEME]

Just now, MJC said:

I partly blame this sort of mentality on the attitude of many within the club to be honest, as there are so many of the mindset of "ah well, we are not expected to compete with the Old Firm anyway because we're only Motherwell" and some of our more recent managers who are familiar with the goldfish bowl of Scottish football bought into this.

It was telling that only two Motherwell managers to have overseen victories over Rangers in recent times have been Robinson and Baraclough, two 'outsiders'. Under them we actually played what was in front of us and not simply the name 'Rangers'.

Agree with this, tbh. It was both a great strength and a weakness that we had players who played with us for so long, so it always felt like they were great in non-OF games, but when it came to them, they'd been there before, taken some doings, lost loads of times, so never really knew how to get over it.

Baraclough and Robinson had the advantage of having a pile of players who didn't give a f**k who they were either, and seemed to get a kick out of playing on that stage, rather than shrink on it.

[MJC]

I totally agree, though I have said all along had McCall been in our dugout instead of theirs in that playoff we would not have won it because he would have had them believing the nonsense like the type posted above about them being a massive club, support is a twelfth man, terrible record at Ibrox bla, bla, bla.

I think what you say is true that the core of players of Lasley, Hammell, Craigan who had been around long before McCall arrived and constantly struggled against Rangers under various managers had built up a bit of an inferiority complex about them. So much so that by the time they actually had some very good players around them when McCall arrived and it coincided with Rangers going down the tubes to the point where they were a newly reformed club in the bottom League when we faced them in that League Cup tie; they are basically having their manager saying "you can't do this" as he talks about our record there and how they are favourites.

Baraclough, for all his faults never came out with any of that nonsense before the playoff and neither did Robinson before the LCSF and lo-and behold, we won those ties.

[capt_oats]

22 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Agree with this, tbh. It was both a great strength and a weakness that we had players who played with us for so long, so it always felt like they were great in non-OF games, but when it came to them, they'd been there before, taken some doings, lost loads of times, so never really knew how to get over it.

Baraclough and Robinson had the advantage of having a pile of players who didn't give a f**k who they were either, and seemed to get a kick out of playing on that stage, rather than shrink on it.

This is actually something that struck me in the fall out following the goal on Sunday. Aside from the hilarity of watching Tierney doing his faux-hardman bit on the park which was very funny he kind of unconsciously gave a lot away by banging on about a "lack of respect". Same with Bain and his utter slavvers in the press the other day. Not showing them "respect" seemed to really piss on their chips as much as being mugged off by an 18 year old making his first start.

OK, the goal was what it was and put folk in an awkward position but as much of the seethe seemed to be that that we didn't just roll over and let them do what they wanted.

Which, I'll not lie, I'm absolutely fucking delighted to see tbqhwy.

Edited February 27, 2019 by capt_oats

[AndyRoss]

Fancy just talking about the play-off's for the rest of the day lads?

[thisGRAEME]

10 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

This is actually something that struck me in the fall out following the goal on Sunday. Aside from the hilarity of watching Tierney doing his faux-hardman bit on the park which was very funny he kind of unconsciously gave a lot away by banging on about a "lack of respect". Same with Bain and his utter slavvers in the press the other day. Not showing them "respect" seemed to really piss on their chips as much as being mugged off by an 18 year old making his first start.

OK, the goal was what it was and put folk in an awkward position but as much of the seethe seemed to be that that we didn't just roll over and let them do what they wanted.

Which, I'll not lie, I'm absolutely fucking delighted to see tbqhwy.

"They should've given us a goal" is so, so, so funny to me.

That and as was mentioned, Ariyibi absolutely haring after it for about 40 yards to fire it in, then off to celebrate in front of the GB.

Yes, poor sportsmanship, shouldn't have, etc. and whatever, but also; really funny. 

I'd quite like top six now just so we can get a good seethe at Fir Park.

[well fan for life]

9 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

"They should've given us a goal" is so, so, so funny to me.

That and as was mentioned, Ariyibi absolutely haring after it for about 40 yards to fire it in, then off to celebrate in front of the GB.

Yes, poor sportsmanship, shouldn't have, etc. and whatever, but also; really funny. 

I'd quite like top six now just so we can get a good seethe at Fir Park.

I heard them saying it on the radio and laughed out loud at it. "Give us a goal!" Aye nae bother. 2 seconds we'll just lie down. 

Respect to Ariyibi btw. Not only can he nutmeg a mermaid but he also appears to be made of Teflon as nothing has stuck. Great times tbh. 

[Swello]

2 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

"They should've given us a goal" is so, so, so funny to me.

If you could sum up the utter sense of entitlement that exists around Celtic, it would be that sentence - it's genuinely fucking bizarre. I think the level of delusion that exists around the club is still staggering after years of witnessing it.

I think in this case, everything was magnified by Brendan's snide, patronising way of dealing with things and the fact that OF managers have a Bully Pulpit in the media that allows them to push their point of view, secure in the knowledge that there'll be a succession of tame hacks and ex-player arse lickers of the Tom Boyd mould to mindlessly parrot the party line. It's funny to look at the Motherwell page on the Record or Sun websites to see the number of articles this goal generated - and no doubt still would be if Brendan hadn't given the tanning shops and teeth whitening clinics of Leicestershire his business.

 

[nsr]

I hope every team does the same thing to both cheeks, just for the seethe at the lack of "respect". Neither mob deserves any.

[well fan for life]

1 minute ago, nsr said:

I hope every team does the same thing to both cheeks, just for the seethe at the lack of "respect". Neither mob deserves any.

Tbh I'd be happy if this bullshit just completely died out. They played on and only put the ball out when the sub was ready, voluntarily ceding possession to bring a player on. 

If it's a head knock/serious injury and the referee brings the game to a halt then fine, stop the game and give the ball back after. Anything else and I'd be playing on. 

[MJC]

My memory may be playing tricks here, but there was a game at Celtic Park over 20 years ago when Gordon Marshall, playing for them, was sent off for pulling Lee McCulloch down outside the box. They brought on a sub goalkeeper but I'm sure that they actually *forgot* to withdraw an outfield player for a good five minutes afterwards. They went on to win the game 1-0 with a last minute winner but I'm sure I can remember something like that happening and no surprise, very little fuss was made of it.

[nsr]

I see your point. I've seen it get to the stage where the team putting the ball out in a "sportsmanlike" manner deliberately puts it out as close to the opposition's goal-line as possible, forcing them to take their "free throw" in a position that immediately puts them on the defensive, when the ball was actually in play on the half way line.

[HibsFan]

40 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

"They should've given us a goal" is so, so, so funny to me.

That and as was mentioned, Ariyibi absolutely haring after it for about 40 yards to fire it in, then off to celebrate in front of the GB.

Yes, poor sportsmanship, shouldn't have, etc. and whatever, but also; really funny. 

I'd quite like top six now just so we can get a good seethe at Fir Park.

There's something about the way that Ariyibi just slammed it in that I just had so much time for. It was even funnier than Scott's involvement.

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, MJC said:

My memory may be playing tricks here, but there was a game at Celtic Park over 20 years ago when Gordon Marshall, playing for them, was sent off for pulling Lee McCulloch down outside the box. They brought on a sub goalkeeper but I'm sure that they actually *forgot* to withdraw an outfield player for a good five minutes afterwards. They went on to win the game 1-0 with a last minute winner but I'm sure I can remember something like that happening and no surprise, very little fuss was made of it.

That rings a bell