Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Back Post Misses said:

Ross McLean any good?

I always saw him as a natural replacement for Cadden at right midfield for us tbh. He never really did anything wrong in the limited amount of first team football he had here but then again unlike Cadden, Campbell or Turnbull he never really established himself. So it's difficult to say one way or another. He was always one of the stand-outs for our u20s and was part of our Youth Cup winning team alongside the three I mentioned plus Dom Thomas, Ben Hall, Jack McMillan and David Ferguson who have ended up at other clubs.

He started to get a run in the side then picked up an injury in the 3-4 game against Celtic a couple of seasons ago, then he dislocated his shoulder in a u20s game against Thistle when he was making his way back to fitness and needed an operation. He scored off the bench at County to put us through in the LC at the start of our cup run last season but then Robinson settled on a 352 and it kind of fucked things for MacLean as there wasn't really a position for him. He's not a wing back and we had/have a million centre mids so he really just seemed to spend his time on the outside of the squad looking in.

I seem to remember reading that he'd asked to go out on loan a few times last January but Robinson blocked that for some reason but he never really got close to our first team other than the odd spot on the bench. So from his POV I'd imagine he'd see it as 6 months wasted. 

I've not really heard much about how he's been getting on at Morton tbh and when Robinson's talking about players breaking through Hastie's usually the one who's out on loan that's mentioned along with Barry Maguire, Adam Livingstone and James Scott who are still at the club.

One of the few complaints I have against Robinson is that he gave Petravicius a spot on the bench for the SC final ahead of MacLean.

He's a decent player and had he had better luck with injuries could have been around our first team but he's at the age where he absolutely needs regular games and it kind of feels like it's passed him by at Fir Park now.

Edited November 30, 2018 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

Difference a week makes eh? 

You had us all praising Grimshaw and there was talk of him deserving a new deal last week, after yesterday's display you'd genuinely consider terminating his current one. Mbulu as well was being talked up after his debut, he lost his man and was beaten far too easily for both goals yesterday. Bigi once again switching off and not tracking his man for the opening goal, he got away with it last week when Shinnie missed a golden chance but no such luck yesterday. I could go through the whole team really though with Gillespie, Maguire and Ally Gorrin  probably being the exceptions.

Also calls to jettison McHugh and the question was asked where he fits in, just have a look at that weak, powderpuff mess of a team yesterday. Say what you like about him being a bit of hothead or his questionable distribution, at least he would never have allowed himself to be bullied the way some of those empty jerseys did. On a day like that, that's where you miss his aggression and his dominance in the air.  Not that McHugh would single-handedly have made the difference of course, just an observation that he is still very much required and I'd be shocked if he wasn't straight back into the team on Wednesday night now.

The problem for me was far too many of our players failed to meet the basic standard required for an acceptable performance at this level and not for the first time this season. We all know as Motherwell fans that we won't play as well as we did against Aberdeen every week, that's a given. However the basic levels of attitude, work-rate, desire etc shouldn't greatly differ, even if the performance levels sometimes do. Unfortunately far too many of our players looked like they just didn't fancy it yesterday and were beaten by a team that simply wanted it more and that for me is when it becomes unacceptable. Unthinkable as well as these were the things that defined us as a team last season, that same hunger and appetite just doesn't seem to be there this season.

Not that Robinson's blameless, his assertion that we'd spent all week working on defending set pieces(before conceding twice from set pieces) was painfully obvious by how clueless we were in possession. Also 3 different formation changes in 45 mins with young Maguire in particular being shifted from centre back, to holding midfielder to right back during in his first start of the season was farcical. As was actually expecting Elliott Frear to come and change a game like that.

Basically(just a bit of a rant after wasting £24 on that) I think we're in for a frustrating as f**k season where we should have just about enough to keep us out of danger but not enough to see us ever really climb away from it at any point, which I guess isn't really where many of us thought we'd be after last season. There's then some big decisions to be made this summer, although just as things have changed since last week a lot will probably change between now and then.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Casagolda

[capt_oats]

Chilli D getting a run out for the reserves today.

Also, the lesser spotted Taylor-Sinclair and Newell.

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 02/12/2018 at 11:44, Casagolda said:

Difference a week makes eh? 

You had us all praising Grimshaw and there was talk of him deserving a new deal last week, after yesterday's display you'd genuinely consider terminating his current one. Mbulu as well was being talked up after his debut, he lost his man and was beaten far too easily for both goals yesterday. Bigi once again switching off and not tracking his man for the opening goal, he got away with it last week when Shinnie missed a golden chance but no such luck yesterday. I could go through the whole team really though with Gillespie, Maguire and Ally Gorrin  probably being the exceptions.

Also calls to jettison McHugh and the question was asked where he fits in, just have a look at that weak, powderpuff mess of a team yesterday. Say what you like about him being a bit of hothead or his questionable distribution, at least he would never have allowed himself to be bullied the way some of those empty jerseys did. On a day like that, that's where you miss his aggression and his dominance in the air.  Not that McHugh would single-handedly have made the difference of course, just an observation that he is still very much required and I'd be shocked if he wasn't straight back into the team on Wednesday night now.

For me the Aberdeen match proved more about McHugh than the Livingston one.  McHugh has played in most of the 1 out of 5 performances, this season and last.  The one week we hit 5 out of 5 this term, he was in the stands.  The guy is emblematic of everything wrong with the Robinson era.  He's slow, an awful passer, his disciple is poor, his attitude questionable, his character is weak and he's only good for defending high balls and set pieces.  He's basically a reflection of a whole flawed philosophy.

As for Grimshaw, I'm on record for saying he's the worst player in the squad.  That's why singled him out last week for praise because 3 good performances out of 4 seemed like the best run of form he's ever had.  But even if he played brilliantly until the end of the season I don't think I'd keep him now.  He's spent way too much of his Motherwell career doing nothing and he was absolutely abysmal on Saturday.

Really the key to 'success' is getting Allan Campbell going again.  Has his best game of the season against Aberdeen and we dominate midfield.   Has probably the worst game of his Motherwell career against Livingston and the midfield is non existent.  Over the whole period of Robinson's management we have rarely had any success without Campbell playing well.  He's the single most important player in the squad.

[Del_Superwell]

33 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Chilli D getting a run out for the reserves today.

Also, the lesser spotted Taylor-Sinclair and Newell.

We are currently 3-0 up after 21 mins as well, sounds like we are on fire this afternoon!  Scott, Newell and Rehman with the goals

[capt_oats]

6 minutes ago, Del_Superwell said:

We are currently 3-0 up after 21 mins as well, sounds like we are on fire this afternoon!  Scott, Newell and Rehman with the goals

4-0...

I support Motherwell Reserves now.

[Del_Superwell]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

4-0...

I support Motherwell Reserves now.

I think we all do lol

[capt_oats]

2 minutes ago, Del_Superwell said:

I think we all do lol

5-0...whit's going on?!

[Del_Superwell]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

5-0...whit's going on?!

No Idea, I wish I was at the game, sounds like we have absolutely destroyed them

[capt_oats]

7 minutes ago, Del_Superwell said:

No Idea, I wish I was at the game, sounds like we have absolutely destroyed them

6-0

Hat-trick for the bold James Scott. Other scorers: George Newell, Akeal Rehman and Broque Watson.

Edited December 3, 2018 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

5-0...whit's going on?!

Tbf to us, I think, Greg Hurst aside, we don't have anyone older than 18 out there. Our reserve side is just last seasons U17s with the odd no hoper/unfit first teamer, thrown in every so often 

[BigTamMuller]

Not quite the Aberdeen pasting of a few years ago, but you'll take it! 

[Casagolda]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

For me the Aberdeen match proved more about McHugh than the Livingston one.  McHugh has played in most of the 1 out of 5 performances, this season and last.  The one week we hit 5 out of 5 this term, he was in the stands.  The guy is emblematic of everything wrong with the Robinson era.  He's slow, an awful passer, his disciple is poor, his attitude questionable, his character is weak and he's only good for defending high balls and set pieces.  He's basically a reflection of a whole flawed philosophy.

Each to their own.

You’ve made your feelings on McHugh perfectly clear before and I don’t think we’re ever really going to agree on the issue so I’m not going to waste time arguing.

Suffice to say though while I think you could level many things at McHugh, calling his character and commitment in to question given everything he’s done for the club is bit out of order imho.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Casagolda

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbf to us, I think, Greg Hurst aside, we don't have anyone older than 18 out there. Our reserve side is just last seasons U17s with the odd no hoper/unfit first teamer, thrown in every so often 

See, I wondered if it was something like that or if you had a child playing in goals...

We had Charlie Dunne coming back from injury, ATS, George Newell and Liam Donnelly who are all 21+ so it was an 'experienced' side that was out there. Adam Livingstone, Liam Brown and James Scott have first team appearances for us too.

Finished 6-1. Robertson pulled one back for your lot.

We subbed on a few players who are more in that 'age group' in the 2nd half. Jamie Semple's 17, Stuart McKinstrey is 16 and Kyle MacDonald is 18.

James Scott, who scored 3 is 18 as well FWIW.

I've also learned that the rules allow for 5 subs to be made in Reserve league games, I thought it was weird when I saw we made 4 subs (3 were at H/T). Every day's a school day:

Quote

Subject that a Club and Football Club must make all of the substitutions which is wishes to make during an individual Reserve League Match within a maximum of three stoppages, excluding the half-time period which shall not for this purpose be counted as a stoppage, but is a time when substitutions may be made, only up to a maximum of five nominated substitutes for any one Club or Football club may participate by taking the field of play in an individual Reserve League Match. A player who has been substituted in a Reserve League Match may not take any further part in that Match. The list of eighteen Players referred to above must include at least one recognised goalkeeper, who must start the match.

 

[RandomGuy.]

24 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

See, I wondered if it was something like that or if you had a child playing in goals...

 

He's only 17 so technically is. Very highly rated though, mind you, was on trial at Liverpool earlier this season.

[Swello]

24 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Each to their own.

You’ve made your feelings on McHugh perfectly clear before and I don’t think we’re ever really going to agree on the issue so I’m not going to waste time arguing.

Suffice to say though while I think you could level many things at McHugh, calling his character and commitment in to question given everything he’s done for the club is bit out of order imho.

I've often thought that McHugh's problem is that he gets carried away because he is too committed at times - I think his attitude has been great since he's been at the club. 

I've not had a chance to be on here since Saturday's bizarre effort - but anger aside, my main sympathy after the game was with Robinson TBH. I'm sure any Motherwell supporter without special hindsight goggles would have been screaming at Robinson to pick the same team that was without a failure against Aberdeen and yet, everyone was just pish, so I'm not sure how any manager can legislate for that. Robinson has taken a pile of stick this season, some of it deserved to be fair - but Saturday has me asking serious questions of the established players as they looked suspiciously as if they couldn't give a f**k.

If you can't get yourself up for a game at Livi, where we have a chance to reel them in and get far enough away from the bottom of the table to give us a nice cushion over the upcoming games against Celtic (twice) and Hearts, then you're taking the piss.  I fully expect us to be back on it against Celtic on Wednesday - and that would be more frustrating still. I'll go out on a limb and predict that we'll see the same type of performance that we put in on Saturday against Accies at NDP at the end of the month....

[capt_oats]

There's yer Reserves goals...

 

and there's yer Stephen Craigan tearing strips off them about the 2nd half...

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

Link

Robinson admitting defeat with some of his summer recruits?

Quote

It'll have to be a case of trying to get people out. There's players we have brought in, we perhaps have to move some of them on which we'll do over the course of the next few weeks.

 

[capt_oats]

49 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Link

Robinson admitting defeat with some of his summer recruits?

Elliot Frear looking absolutely fucking haunted in that photo...

Spoiler

Something that only really just struck me is the extent to which Robinson has been echoing points he was making almost exactly a year ago during the December slump.

Quote

“I’ve given people chances, now it’s time to change things”. 27/12/17 (linking to Casagolda's post rather than embedding the interview)

Quote

"There's certain things that happen over and over again with certain players that I can't forgive, and if I keep saying the same things to people and they keep doing it, then it's time to look at something else." 30/12/17

Robinson's made the same points, almost verbatim, recently. Him talking about having been too loyal to some players post 7-1 at Ibrox immediately springs to mind.

When Robinson's talking about "players we have brought in" there's a fair chance he's talking about the group that he's signed (or who have been brought to the club) rather than specifically the summer signings IMO. Though clearly you'd expect there will be a few of those on the GTF list.

We're a year further down the line and for the most part, the same players who were in the squad when he was critical last December are still at the club. Who knows, maybe he was talking about Griffiths, Petravicius and Plummer when he was making those comments but it seems...unlikely.

Whether it's the same players he's taking a pop at now as he was then? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited December 4, 2018 by capt_oats

[thisGRAEME]

Additionally:

Quote

"So it's important we get a bit of experience back in the team again, a bit of know-how, and get back to doing the basics better than the other team."

Wednesday is going to be some laugh.