Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Kapowzer]

1 hour ago, rowsdower said:

So so cringey right there, begging a millionaire to take the shirt you spent 60 quid on and put it in his car somewhere. 

The Tom Green one was funny cos I think he just found that shirt, and it just happened to be my all time favorite away top. He also wore it and annoyed Americans. 

In 2052 everyone will be wearing one, if my lottery master plan works out. 

Snoop was heard to say, "thats remindizzle of that 80's relegatizzle ..... fo' shizzle".

Edited March 19, 2023 by Kapowzer

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I think that guy is genuinely a teenager tbf

[Mr. Brightside]

Thought it was Busta's alt tbqhwy

[AmericanFan]

20 hours ago, Desp said:

I don't feel too bad about yesterday. It feels a bit shite to say, but at least we had a go. Usually we just turn up and roll over. We made plenty of mistakes, but that happens most weeks. If you've any chance of beating Rangers (or Celtic) you're going to need 14-16 of your players to be absolutely perfect on the day. Sadly we aren't likely to do that, because we've got a 4ft 11 goalkeeper with wee arms and midfielders not worthy of the name. 

I can only echo the comment from @thisGRAEME about Casey's run in the second half. If that had ended in a goal, I would've been on the park celebrating with him (scudding Dougie Ross as I went). 

lol...

[RandomGuy.]

Ive never understood why any Motherwell fan hates van Veen tbh.

Enigmatic foreign striker with a dickhead side, who bags double figures including some screamers, is pretty much every fans dream signing surely?

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Ive never understood why any Motherwell fan hates van Veen tbh.

Enigmatic foreign striker with a dickhead side, who bags double figures including some screamers, is pretty much every fans dream signing surely?

I've been a #BudgetBergkamp Day 1-er but I guess to get a handle on this it's worth bearing in mind that you had one specific poster over on Steelmen Online who was entirely more focussed on Michael Higdon's girth than the fact that he like, scored a ton of goals and won the actual Player of The Year award.

A lot of the KVV 'hate' from a section of the Motherwell fanbase seems to come from a similar sort of place and definitely has the same sort of energy in that they've taken a position on him early on and just stubbornly keep doubling down. It's their hill and they will absolutely die on it.

In fact, there was a post on SO a while back that was an entirely wild ride taking the line that had KVV as a "huffy manchild" who downed tools to get Hammell sacked due to his poor attitude. Folk are weird, man.

I mean, that Twitter account @Busta Nut posted is clearly an absolute danger or as @YassinMoutaouakil suggested is an actual teenager - possibly both but there are enough oddballs in our support that if someone's face doesn't fit then that's it for them. Destined to forever be 'shite' no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.

Speaking generally, there's a vibe from some that they're completely unwilling to give Alexander any sort of credit for anything and Van Veen was, of course, a Grezza signing - so there's that as well.

He's clearly a mercurial player and he'll never be beloved in the same way Moult was but when you look at our list of top scorers since 2000 he's showing up well - not only has he matched Moult's best season he's also matched Porter in 07/08 as well.

On 20/02/2023 at 10:12, capt_oats said:

Previous top scorers (all comps):
21/22 - Kevin Van Veen (11)
20/21 - Devante Cole (12)
19/20* - Liam Donnelly/Chris Long (11) - season curtailed
18/19 - David Turnbull (15)
17/18 - Louis Moult (14) - left in December '17
16/17 - Louis Moult (18)
15/16 - Louis Moult (18)
14/15 - John Sutton (13)
13/14 - John Sutton (22)
12/13 -  Michael Higdon (27)
11/12 - Michael Higdon (16)
10/11 - John Sutton (17)
09/10 - John Sutton (13)
08/09 - David Clarkson (13)
07/08 - Chris Porter (18)
06/07 - Scott McDonald (16)
05/06 - Richie Foran (12)
04/05 - Scott McDonald (15)
03/04 - David Clarkson (14)
02/03 - James McFadden (19)
01/02 - Stuart Elliot (12)
00/01 - Stuart Elliot (12)

Edited March 20, 2023 by capt_oats

[Swello]

9 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

I seen this...

Now, I've no idea what this thread of tweets is about however, it's the last line in this first tweet.
"His job is to score goals and I still criticize him for that. "

Lotta shite

The state of someone doing a public apology thread on twitter like they're a government minister owning up to an affair 

[Neil86]

2 minutes ago, Swello said:

The state of someone doing a public apology thread on twitter like they're a government minister owning up to an affair 

The absolute irony in the whole tweet as well, begging KVV for forgiveness almost, someone has left a reply which I can't see but assume is along the lines of you've shat it to which his response is, 'if anyone's shat it it's him' is quite the turn of events.

 

[Busta Nut]

8 hours ago, Mr. Brightside said:

Thought it was Busta's alt tbqhwy

aw come on!

[thisGRAEME]

23 hours ago, Desp said:

I can only echo the comment from @thisGRAEME about Casey's run in the second half. If that had ended in a goal, I would've been on the park celebrating with him (scudding Dougie Ross as I went). 

I'd just like to pass on my wholehearted support to the Cooper stand and their continued booing of Douglas Ross while checking the nets ahead of kick-off.

Simply fantastic behaviour.

[Busta Nut]

12 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I'd just like to pass on my wholehearted support to the Cooper stand and their continued booing of Douglas Ross while checking the nets ahead of kick-off.

Simply fantastic behaviour.

Agree, no matter your political stance I think we can all agree Douglas Ross is a cúnt.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

I've been a #BudgetBergkamp Day 1-er but I guess to get a handle on this it's worth bearing in mind that you had one specific poster over on Steelmen Online who was entirely more focussed on Michael Higdon's girth than the fact that he like, scored a ton of goals and won the actual Player of The Year award.

A lot of the KVV 'hate' from a section of the Motherwell fanbase seems to come from a similar sort of place and definitely has the same sort of energy in that they've taken a position on him early on and just stubbornly keep doubling down. It's their hill and they will absolutely die on it.

In fact, there was a post on SO a while back that was an entirely wild ride taking the line that had KVV as a "huffy manchild" who downed tools to get Hammell sacked due to his poor attitude. Folk are weird, man.

I mean, that Twitter account @Busta Nut posted is clearly an absolute danger or as @YassinMoutaouakil suggested is an actual teenager - possibly both but there are enough oddballs in our support that if someone's face doesn't fit then that's it for them. Destined to forever be 'shite' no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.

Speaking generally, there's a vibe from some that they're completely unwilling to give Alexander any sort of credit for anything and Van Veen was, of course, a Grezza signing - so there's that as well.

He's clearly a mercurial player and he'll never be beloved in the same way Moult was but when you look at our list of top scorers since 2000 he's showing up well - not only has he matched Moult's best season he's also matched Porter in 07/08 as well.

Given that you appear to be referring to one of my posts on SO, I kinda feel the need to defend myself here seeing as I would appear to be getting lumped in with some of the more negative elements of our support.

I did describe KVV as a huffy manchild who downed tools (in certain games) but never at any point did I suggest he did it deliberately to get Hammell sacked (or that I hated him).

Im actually a huge fan of KVV. He has fantastic natural ability and his goals have been crucial in keeping our heads above water this season. Those things have never been in doubt.

Some were advocating that he was a waste of a jersey and should have been dropped. I wouldnt have gone that far as we literally have no one else to score the goals required to keep us up.

However, I did question his attitude as a senior player at a time when Hammell needed him the most. There were several games when his body language was absolutely awful and he simply wasnt being a good team mate. I think its fair enough to call that out.

Of course there may have been mitigating factors unknown to most supporters, but surely its possible to see the positive attributes of a player whilst calling them out if you feel they arent giving everything for the team?

FWIW, I do realise that if KVV did everything I wanted from him he simply wouldnt be at Motherwell as a bigger club would be paying him way more than we can afford.

So to summarise. He cant run, he cant jump, sometimes his attitude is bad. All he does is score goals.....

Edited March 20, 2023 by joewarkfanclub

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I honestly think he's just Dutch.

[Casagolda]

21 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

However, I did question his attitude as a senior player at a time when Hammell needed him the most. There were several games when his body language was absolutely awful and he simply wasnt being a good team mate. I think its fair enough to call that out.

There was one game at home to County under Hammell where I’m sure he got slated for his attitude and work rate. However our goal that day came from a bit of skill from Van Veen and him then laying it off for McKinstry to score. 

For me, that’s always been the difference. Get the ball into his feet and get runners in support and he’ll contribute. Leave him isolated with little service and wrestling with defenders and he tends to get frustrated. 

I think Obika coming in has certainly lightened the load. Look at Van Veen’s goals against St Mirren and his first against Ross County, or his assist for Spittal against Hearts. All those goals involved Obika playing with his back to goal and occupying the centre backs. Which frees up Van Veen to drift into spaces where he’s more effective. 

Post World Cup, Hammell lasted 10 games. By my reckoning, Van Veen scored 4 and set 3 up in that time. Of all the players Hammell could possibly point the finger at for his demise, I simply can’t see how Van Veen could be one of them. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Casagolda

[Busta Nut]

3 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

There was one game at home to County under Hammell where I’m sure he got slated for his attitude and work rate. However our goal that day came from a bit of skill from Van Veen and him then laying it off for McKinstry to score. 

For me, that’s always been the difference. Get the ball into his feet and get runners in support and he’ll contribute. Leave him isolated with little service and wrestling with defenders and he tends to get frustrated. 

It's this.

We all know it.

I also like @YassinMoutaouakil's "just Dutch" reasoning.



Wild this conversation is bubbling up again. (I know it's my fault)

[Desp]

The fact that van Veen has scored 18 goals in this Motherwell side and is on course for 20+ (I mean, THIS FUCKING Motherwell side) is nothing short of remarkable.  He absolutely needs to be playing up top with someone else though (he's looked even better since Obika came in and  done the dirty work against the centre halves) and I think we saw that in spells v Rangers where he looked about at times and was questioning where the f**k his support was.  

I think we've all questioned him at points during his Motherwell career, some of it fair IMO and some of it ridiculously harsh. He's one of those players where you can generally tell in the first 10 minutes how his day is going to be.   Sometimes, he must look around and despair at some of the shite around about him but in the main, he's been superb for us.  He's probably the anti-Higdon is some ways.  KVV has all the ability in the world but he's spent his peak years with Scunthrope Utd & Motherwell, potentially due to his perceived attitude.  Higdon could be described as a fairly limited footballer but he worked his arse off to be in the right place at the right time, scored a shitload and got himself a cracking move on some tidy money. 

I suppose, after saying all of that, I could've just copied what @YassinMoutaouakil said... "he's just Dutch".

[thisGRAEME]

24 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I honestly think he's just Dutch.

[Swello]

I think Van Veen is a (the most?) popular player amongst supporters - I think we can read too much into on-line stuff.

I think KVV's "attitude" stuff actually comes mostly from last season - where he was played wide when Watt was having his goal scoring aberration - he was probably justifiably pissed off that he signed to be our number 9 and suddenly wasn't. This season, it feels like he's picked up way less daft bookings and to my eyes, has worked his arse off at times that the team was creating absolutely f**k all for him and have been chucking them in at the other end.

I think we have genuinely been spoiled by having so many high scoring forwards over the years - we have managed that as consistently as any non-OF team in the league and I'd assume that most clubs in the league would have KVV if offered.

31 minutes ago, Desp said:

He absolutely needs to be playing up top with someone else though (he's looked even better since Obika came in and  done the dirty work against the centre halves)

I think playing with two up is the Motherwell Way and should be a contractual obligation of any new manager.

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Given that you appear to be referring to one of my posts on SO, I kinda feel the need to defend myself here seeing as I would appear to be getting lumped in with some of the more negative elements of our support.

I did describe KVV as a huffy manchild who downed tools (in certain games) but never at any point did I suggest he did it deliberately to get Hammell sacked (or that I hated him).

Aye, to be clear and for avoidance of doubt I wasn't suggesting that you 'hated' him or anything - the broader context of my post was probably aimed at that 'negative element' you mention rather than your SO post specifically so apologies if it read like that (on reflection I can see how it would).

It definitely wasn't my intention to misrepresent you.

From my POV your post was quite helpful in illustrating the point in so much as a perception of a player can inform things generally eg: his 'downing tools' and 'attitude'. Which is why I mentioned it.

Others have covered it better than me in the previous few posts but, to me, with KVV we're talking about a player who has pretty much been run into the ground by his past few managers (Alexander and Hammell), he's been repeatedly asked to play through injuries, played out of position and in the case of this season with Hammell, used in a way that absolutely didn't get the best out of him.

To that end, I genuinely can't blame him for chucking the toys out the pram every now and again or taking a huff.

Edited March 20, 2023 by capt_oats

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Van Veen is thriving as a second striker - he's one of those players that you probably have to accomodate in the modern game when 4-4-2 is pretty much a dead formation. He's not an out and out number 9, he's not a number 10 and he's certainly not effective "off the left". However, even when he was played around those places in Hammell's setup, he was still far from being a problem for us compared to others in the side.

One of the biggest changes that Kettlewell has brought for me is that he has looked at his squad and thought "how can I get the best out of this lot?", you're seeing it with Van Veen thriving alongside someone, you're seeing it with Spittal in a role that suits him (Saturday's experiment aside). Hammell picked a formation and tried to mould players into roles that didn't suit them. Van Veen, Shields and Spittal weren't suited to how Hammell was using them and are now all thriving in new roles, albeit Shields a division down at another club. McKinstry now looks sadly a victim of being the only forward suited to Hammell's formation, lad has done nothing wrong but you can't see where you'd put him in.

If a guy named "Budget Bergkamp" is at Motherwell - there's obviously going to be caveats with him surrounding consistency, attitude, discipline etc as we've all probably seen at other points. However, I can't help but think at times, as much as I'd never justify a player lacking in application, that I would have shared his frustrations.

For me he is far and away our player of the year and I hope next season we find a way to play him up beside a target man again, because it will be very difficult for us find his contribution whilst used effectively from anywhere else.