Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

['WellDel]

8

29 minutes ago, ropy said:

Raith started it Well fans quickly joined in, lasted 20 or 30 seconds

An away day with a decent travelling support buoyed by alcohol and false hope, another insipid but hardly unexpected pish performance. All the ingredients were there for it to turn toxic on Hamnell when it inevitably went tits up, and the fans can't be faulted for showing their frustration after months of enduring that utter shite.

As a guy and stellar servant to the club he didn't deserve that end, very sad all round.  Those in power who should have acted much quicker in dispatching him have to take the blame for it reaching such a horrible, low point and ignominious end for him. Club is full of shitebags from top to bottom.

 

[ropy]

Did he last as long as Gannon?

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I wouldn't be averse to Imrie tbh. A Martindale disciple and from the outside looks to be doing a good job at Cappielow. I always felt there was a hint of affection underneath the hostility. 

['WellDel]

6 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I wouldn't be averse to Imrie tbh. A Martindale disciple and from the outside looks to be doing a good job at Cappielow. I always felt there was a hint of affection underneath the hostility. 

Shitey pants secretly loves the 'Well.

He's 100% not the man to save us though. We need some hardline, authoritarian type to get this shower of shysters into line. It's a fucking awful squad, but not one that's completely beyond redemption given the right coaching, imho. 

Wednesday will be telling in whether they were trying for Hammell or not. For whatever reason I'm going to guess not. We have a high proportion of diddies, but the performances lately make it very hard to believe they've been giving their all. I'm sure all the background shenanigans will come to light soon enough. For now, though, Wednesday becomes our latest in a long line of biggest games of the season.

[rowsdower]

The aggressive/hardline/hairdryer type of management isn't really much of a thing anymore, and the idea that someone could come in and verbally or physically abuse the players into being good is misguided and old fashioned. Adding more fear to the situation isn't going to work.

Some players react to being dropped, some need the old arm around the shoulder, and some need competition, some need a change of scenery. Few react to abuse, particularly when players have all the power anyway. 

What we need is someone who is able to look at the resources available and find a way to play to their strengths, capitalize on opposition weaknesses, and find ways to motivate and improve players. If they just need someone to call folk useless c***s, anyone can do that.

Managing humans is pain in the arse.

 

[Doonhame Buddie]

30 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

Shitey pants secretly loves the 'Well.

He's 100% not the man to save us though. We need some hardline, authoritarian type to get this shower of shysters into line. It's a fucking awful squad, but not one that's completely beyond redemption given the right coaching, imho. 

 

Translation: Jim Goodwin 

[Kapowzer]

2 hours ago, tamthebam said:

Win a cup and you'll never have to buy a pint in Motherwell again.

Well unless you’re Tom Boyd or the other clientele in the bar are our 5 board members.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Kapowzer

[Handsome_Devil]

Shite day and even the small consolation that we've obviously done the correct thing cancelled by the statement not even pretending it mutual.

But, but, but we have still somehow the prospect of better to come whether we stay up or go down and, let's be honest, that's all anyone ever wants.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Handsome_Devil
Autocorrect mash

[Well Fan]

Outside Fir Park main stand last night.

The Well bois certainly upped their game! 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Well Fan

[bunglebonce]

There was a good interview with Kettlewell in the Ross-shire Journal from last month, in case anyone is curious about his thoughts of being a manager.

https://www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk/sport/kettlewell-characters-will-decide-success-or-failure-300876/

 

[Hank Scorpio]

19 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

10/11. Won a decent wedge yesterday, unexpectedly, so have £110 on you boys. £100 on Chelsea and £100 on Tottenham.

Zero on the treble, funnily enough!

How much for a monthly subscription, mate? 

[Derry Alli]

7 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

How much for a monthly subscription, mate? 

Betting tips, I pay you £2 p/w.

OnlyFans, you pay me £10 p/m. 

March is Fireman month.

[Swello]

6 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Shite day and even the small consolation that we've obviously done the correct thing cancelled by the statement not even pretending it mutual

Given that it's been a slow motion car crash for a few weeks with the end looking pretty inevitable, I had assumed that his exit would have been handled with more grace than it ultimately was. The guy has spent his adult life (with one short holiday on the South Coast of England) at the club and so to give him one step above a Jacob Blyth feels more than a bit off to me. I get that things happened quickly yesterday and he probably just walked off into the sunset at full time but even so....

Managers obviously come and go and things couldn't go on as they were but it's hard not to have sympathy for a guy who stepped up from a (no doubt relatively poorly paid) secure job in the Academy only for everything his imposter syndrome warned him about to come true.

 

[capt_oats]

The way I see it is, the first step to recovery is admitting there's a problem (original, right?).

After 6 months Hammell:

• was unable to improve things by coaching (we've steadily got worse the time he's been in charge)
• couldn't fix glaring issues (we're still shipping soft, cheap goals)
• has only won a single home league game
• rejected the idea of getting experienced help out of hand (based on reporting from the AGM)
• doubled down on tactics that weren't working
• had (metaphorically) resorted to just flinging shit against the wall

Even with the signing of The January 9 - even if these are great players (they're probably not) - based on the last 6 months there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he'd have been able to get anything out them. In fact, there's a better than fair chance he'd make them worse.

Obviously only @wellboy1991's dog walking neighbour knows what had been happening on the training ground but we've regressed to a point where we don't even looked like a coached football team let alone one that's well coached.

As @Handsome_Devil alluded to we're not even pretending that it's a mutual consent.

To that end, the board have stepped in and admitted there's a problem. It's an ignominious end and you can argue about the timing, when it should/shouldn't have been done/whether he should have been given the job in the first place (hint: he shouldn't) but it's done now - that's a start.

Best case scenario here is that Hammell and Kerr were the problem meaning that someone even halfway competent comes in and get enough of an uptick that gets us to 10th (or better) by the end of the season and everyone forgets this shambles ever happened.

Worst case? We continue on the trajectory Hammell had us on anyway - Vive la Championship.

Edited February 12, 2023 by capt_oats

[jagfox]

So was Hammell the head coach, concerned mainly with coaching and putting out the team on a match day or was he involved in recruitment as well? 

[capt_oats]

6 minutes ago, jagfox said:

So was Hammell the head coach, concerned mainly with coaching and putting out the team on a match day or was he involved in recruitment as well? 

His job title was manager, we have a head of recruitment, but AFAIK Hammell would have had involvement in recruitment.

The HoR and team would do the bulk of the legwork - the manager would give a brief of what he needed, they'd return with options, Hammell would make the decision.

Through January he was often quoted re: his recruitment discussions and dialogue with targets and eventual signings.

Edited February 12, 2023 by capt_oats

[jagfox]

Just now, capt_oats said:

His job title was manager, we have a head of recruitment, but AFAIK Hammell would have had involvement in recruitment. The HoR and team would do the bulk of the legwork - he'd give a brief of what he needed, they'd return with options, Hammell would make the decision.

Through January he was often quoted re: his recruitment discussions and dialogue with targets and eventual signings.

I see, so I guess this HoR team was part of the find gems down South or wherever and flog them for profit strstegy? 

 Are they complicit in the current situation too?

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I echo the fact that it had to be done, but it's absolutely gutting to see happen. Perhaps he was overcome by ambition, but Hammell was a club legend with not one bad word said about him, working as academy director in August and now we are in this horrible situation where we're seriously under threat of relegation and have been papped out of the cup (deservedly) by Raith Rovers. What makes me even more heart sorry for Hammell is the fact that, although I can't claim to know how good he was at his previous job, you can probably say with a degree of confidence that both his post-playing jobs, he wouldn't have got at any other club, so you wonder where does a man who's worked at Motherwell for all of his adult life less 18 months goes from here. As one of my favourite players of all time, it's gutting to see that happen to him.

It would be revisionist of me to say that I was against us giving him the job in the summer because I wasn't, but that probably came from trusting the board. If I was Hammell back then I'd have looked at a squad who had played turgid football for 18 months, who had no ideas against Sligo and was generally full of deadwood and thought f**k that. Most managers we appoint have generally either arrived to either a decent squad of players, or a blank enough canvas to change it themselves and he got neither. For me, it's absolutely unforgivable that we found ourselves in the situation where we sacked a manager after pre season and before the first league game of the season. If a manager was one result from the sack going in to a season, he shouldn't be allowed to start that season. For me, that's the biggest glaring factor as to where we are at now. Sadly those Lamie goals that were celebrated in the spring have massively cost us. But ultimately, the board should have had the balls and the foresight to see that regardless of us stumbling over the line, Grezza wasn't going to work.

There's no hiding from the fact that Hammell made his own string of bad decisions in his time as manager that were his doing. In his time as an experienced pro with the club, he always appeared to be more on the "lead by example" type than being a ranter and raver like Las or Crags were, who you'd visibly see having a go at those not pulling their weight. Also, hard to tell from the outside but from social media etc he seemed like everyone's pal. I'm not saying those factors mean that he couldn't have succeeded as a manager, but a manager of that type of normally complemented by a fiery assistant but instead the pally nature kicks in and he picks his pal Brian Kerr, one of the biggest shitebags and hide and seek champions I've ever seen play with Motherwell.

I think we are in an unfortunate position with recruitment now that every time someone is floating about that could genuinely make a marked improvement to our team, a city club sweeps them from under our feet. The type of player we attract is getting and has got gradually worse over the last decade. However, taking away ability, the team is completely shot of leadership, character and pride. Hammell might not have got a style to suit these players, he might not have motivated them, but as a collective group, they are a bunch of charlatans. "Instructions" for me only go so far, once you're out on the pitch it's up to you to show heart and we don't have a team capable of doing that. They should all take a long hard look at themselves too.

[Desp]

On 11/02/2023 at 07:17, thisGRAEME said:

I reckon we'll be getting a "get this boy gone" performance today, for what it's worth.

A good day out with 90 dire minutes is not a bad day out.

45 minutes for this bear. Great day oot though..

20 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

10/11. Won a decent wedge yesterday, unexpectedly, so have £110 on you boys. £100 on Chelsea and £100 on Tottenham.

Zero on the treble, funnily enough!

Lol

[capt_oats]

33 minutes ago, jagfox said:

I see, so I guess this HoR team was part of the find gems down South or wherever and flog them for profit strstegy? 

 Are they complicit in the current situation too?

That's up for debate, the current HoR listed on the club site was an Alexander hire (he was part of his staff at Scunthorpe) and there's been speculation as to how involved he's been over the past while.

Some may disagree but IMO over the past season and a half our recruitment's been no worse than it was under Robinson although we probably had more peaks with the other guy than the current one. To me, Hammell has simply been unable to get a tune out of a lot of these players.

Broadly the recruitment staff will be working to the brief the manager gives them. At least that's how I imagine it works.

It's management choices that have meant we've decided to build our defence around Ricki Lamie. He was a Robinson signing and f**k all to do with the current HoR.

Speaking specifically about this season's recruitment the rumour has been that the board were uncertain of Alexander and chose to limit support. The upshot was that by the time the Sligo game rolled around we'd only signed Paul McGinn (ostensibly to replace SOD who'd fallen out with GA), Blair Spittal and Josh Morris (who'd played under Alexander regularly down south).

Once Hammell got the job 3 of his 4 signings were former players McKinstry, Moult and Aarons. 2 of those 3 were known sick notes but he signed them anyway. The other signing was Matt Penney - who was actually very good to begin with but like the rest of this squad regressed the longer he was playing under Hammell.

Also, Penney was only a 6 month loan - the clubs had agreed a season loan but he explicitly asked that it only be until January.

I suppose my point there is that Hammell's summer signings broadly seemed to be people whose phone numbers he had rather than players identified by the HoR. Ironically the one who probably was a HoR pick-up was absolutely fine.

Edited February 12, 2023 by capt_oats