well fan for life Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 hours ago, capt_oats said: I mean, I agree that an anonymous post on a fitba' forum doesn't prove anything but it terms of eye-test...do we *look* like a well coached team atm? Players don't look like they know what they're supposed to be doing The team doesn't seem to have a clear plan Persistent defensive issues haven't been fixed Players seem unmotivated Massive regressions individually and collectively as a team Zero improvements in player performance I think most of us have seen well coached Motherwell sides and this...isn't one. Tbh, there's an echo of where we are just now and McGhee's 2nd season of his 2nd stint where, ironically, there were also persisting rumours about training. The story went that because McGhee was commuting it meant training was being taken largely by McFadden (who also had zero first team coaching experience) and a handful of the senior players. I tend to agree with this. Obviously it's a bit of a vicious circle of concede a poor goal -> lose confidence -> don't change anything to fix it -> concede a poor goal -> rinse -> repeat. But we look completely broken right now. Even in possession there doesn't seem to be a cohesive plan of how we're going to attack. It's a miserable way to spend your Saturday afternoons at the minute. I've opted to swerve Raith Rovers away at the weekend because by the time you factor in ticket + train + pints + scran you're likely north of £100 on a day out. To put that against watching this fucking abject misery of a club I cannot justify the outgoing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 The talk about Hammell getting "help" from an experienced figure of some sort is interesting as the most animated that he got at the AGM was when that was put to him from the floor. The reaction was understandable of course as it's a bit embarrassing, but in justifying it he mentioned that bringing someone in is just a step to giving that person the managers job - which at the time felt like a very clear reference to Robinson/McGhee. From all that, I took it that it was a "red line" and he'd be offski if it happened. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Surely if the board are to stick with Hammell there needs to be some hard evidence, not just hope, that wins/points are just around the corner? Like, right around the corner. 11 games without a win and only 1 in 15 with some very beatable opposition in there and the last 2 games in particular being an utter unravelling suggests there isn’t. I know folk have scoffed at the suggestion, and to a degree I can see their point, but I would honestly take getting beat by Raith on Saturday if it forced their hand. Maybe a boozed up volatile away support turning nasty at an embarrassing lower league cup exit could be the tipping point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-91 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: Surely if the board are to stick with Hammell there needs to be some hard evidence, not just hope, that wins/points are just around the corner? Like, right around the corner. 11 games without a win and only 1 in 15 with some very beatable opposition in there and the last 2 games in particular being an utter unravelling suggests there isn’t. I know folk have scoffed at the suggestion, and to a degree I can see their point, but I would honestly take getting beat by Raith on Saturday if it forced their hand. Maybe a boozed up volatile away support turning nasty at an embarrassing lower league cup exit could be the tipping point? I could take either a loss, or drubbling them 6-0 that builds some confidence and gets us fired up. What I don't want is for us to limp our way through to a win and just prolonging the situation. Edited February 7, 2023 by Yoshi-91 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: I know folk have scoffed at the suggestion, and to a degree I can see their point, but I would honestly take getting beat by Raith on Saturday if it forced their hand. Maybe a boozed up volatile away support turning nasty at an embarrassing lower league cup exit could be the tipping point? Nah - we should never be writing off cup games. There is a decent possibility of a favourable draw if we get through on Saturday and regardless of what's going on in the league, the Cup is our best hope of this season not being a total fucking disaster (and we really need the money if things go as badly as they look at present). Unless it's a pumping, losing on Saturday on its own isn't going to change anything in the Board's calculations IMO (and neither will winning unless we deal with Rovers the way we dealt with ICT) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, Swello said: Nah - we should never be writing off cup games. There is a decent possibility of a favourable draw if we get through on Saturday and regardless of what's going on in the league, the Cup is our best hope of this season not being a total fucking disaster (and we really need the money if things go as badly as they look at present). Unless it's a pumping, losing on Saturday on its own isn't going to change anything in the Board's calculations IMO (and neither will winning unless we deal with Rovers the way we dealt with ICT) The point has been raised before but if we won the cup (LOL) with the likes of Goss and Lamie I honestly don't know how I'd feel. From a financial point of few, the payout from a decent cup run is never going to offset the cost of relegation. It's a stance I hate having to take but I'd honestly accept defeat against Raith if it saw a change in manager. The result against Arbroath was simply down to us having better players rather than any sort of tactical genius from Hammell and it would be the same against Raith. We should be beating lower league opposition regardless of the manager but Hammell has shown time and time again he hasnt got a clue how to beat or, in recent games, even set up a team to compete with those in the same division as us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blink182 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said: The point has been raised before but if we won the cup (LOL) with the likes of Goss and Lamie I honestly don't know how I'd feel. From a financial point of few, the payout from a decent cup run is never going to offset the cost of relegation. It's a stance I hate having to take but I'd honestly accept defeat against Raith if it saw a change in manager. The result against Arbroath was simply down to us having better players rather than any sort of tactical genius from Hammell and it would be the same against Raith. We should be beating lower league opposition regardless of the manager but Hammell has shown time and time again he hasnt got a clue how to beat or, in recent games, even set up a team to compete with those in the same division as us. I was born the year we won the cup so always want to see us win the cup. Is it not traditional that our cup winning captain should be despised by fans? If so this team might just be perfect candidates. A Lambie header in the final minute at Hampden, just in time to offer him a lifetime contract. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Will the Cup final get in the way of our play off fixtures? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezz Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Favourable draws or not, there's not a hope in hell we're winning the cup. Zero. Preserving our league status is by far the most important matter for the club this season, and if a loss to Rovers in the cup results in a change in management that gives us a better chance of survival then, as much as it pains me to say it, I'd take a defeat to speed the process up. In my mind Hammell is done for anyway, whether it's this Saturday or sometime in March, so no point in drawing out the (imo) inevitable when we still have enough games to get ourselves safe. All Motherwell fans would have loved nothing more than for him to have been a success but the regression, firstly in results, and more recently team and individual performances, is pretty indefensible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Finish 11th. Win the cup. Deprive 5th place St Mirren of Europe. Lose the playoff. Go down. The greatest season of all time. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowsdower Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Hey, when it's the cup, form goes out the window. Just like ours did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, dezz said: Favourable draws or not, there's not a hope in hell we're winning the cup. Zero. Preserving our league status is by far the most important matter for the club this season, and if a loss to Rovers in the cup results in a change in management that gives us a better chance of survival then, as much as it pains me to say it, I'd take a defeat to speed the process up. In my mind Hammell is done for anyway, whether it's this Saturday or sometime in March, so no point in drawing out the (imo) inevitable when we still have enough games to get ourselves safe. All Motherwell fans would have loved nothing more than for him to have been a success but the regression, firstly in results, and more recently team and individual performances, is pretty indefensible. Considering at some point we'd need to be somewhat competent to win anything I'd agree there's no chance. Not that I'm saying I'd be happy for us to get beat, right enough. I do agree that short of a comeback more astounding than Lazarus he's going to get emptied at some point soon enough. Whether it's too little, too late remains to be seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapowzer Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 That it. He’s toast. But when is the trigger is pulled will define how this club fares for the next 3 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermarv Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 For me and it’s been brought to attention by others so far. Heard similar regards to training without knowing full details but it all starts to make sense with Hammells “ego” and by the way we are playing it has shown this season. His inexperience is killing us it’s just pure youth coaching all about “performances” which we can’t even do now, as each game goes on the level of effort from the players is clearly getting worse and worse as if they aren’t playing for the manager. A man with any self respect to this club, he’d do the right thing and accept he’s not upto the job. Let someone else come in and take the hit for going down (if we do) and keep intact his legend status as such as this is clearly not working out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu92 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 I was quite against the idea of Hammell taking over at the beginning of the season because I could already see it ending in tears. Young coach with no managerial experience, risking his 'job for life' and rep as club legend for what would be a few years at most before things inevitably turned for the worst (as they do with all clubs in modern football). Nevertheless, he got the job and so I wanted him to succeed just as much as the next fan. I still hope/want him to turn it around. A lot of expectation pinned on the new January guys. I'd hate for Hammy to be booted out as our shortest and least successful manager of the modern era, although if he's stomping about like Billy Big Baws (as someone alluded to a few pages back) then that is perhaps different. What I would find even more alarming than a manager with an ego however, is if the squad is downing tools under our third successive manager. We were doing well under Robinson, before we weren't. We were doing well under Alexander, before we weren't. We looked like we would do well under Hammell, although we obviously aren't. We clearly don't have completely shite players, as they have shown in various sustained periods over the last few seasons. If we have a player power issue then punting Hammell won't fix that, and I find that just as, if not more so, concerning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP_81 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 If we were to win the cup I genuinely couldn't care less who our cup winning squad was, even if it was a bunch of deviants that celebrated it with a big bowl of cauliflower pakora. One thing I think that we can all agree on however is the thought of that team playing against anyone at Hampden let alone one of the arse cheeks is enough to give you nightmares . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said: The point has been raised before but if we won the cup (LOL) with the likes of Goss and Lamie I honestly don't know how I'd feel. I'd feel fucking fantastic. I mean, it's not going to happen but if offered the devil's deal of 12th and winning the cup I'd sign right now. These guys wouldn't be revered like 91 but for various reasons we're never going to have a team like that again and if a bunch of no-hopers somehow fluke the cup while passing through Motherwell I'd be utterly thrilled. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said: The point has been raised before but if we won the cup (LOL) with the likes of Goss and Lamie I honestly don't know how I'd feel. I'd have to just live with it. I'd fucking hate it but I'd fucking love it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowsdower Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 I'd quite happily take a tainted cup win where we have the easiest possible draws and beat darvel in the final on penalties. It's still a trophy, just like our Copa del Rey and Stanley Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 hour ago, ropy said: Will the Cup final get in the way of our play off fixtures? No. Because with Hammell in charge we are more likely to finish 12th and automatic relegation. I am on (broken) record as saying I want him gone now. But assuming as looks likely they are giving him next two games to see what impact the new players make. Then I can see us narrowly beating Raith before losing to St Mirren at Fir Park. And then we are effectively back to where we are now. If losing one of the next two games leads to the sack then I would probably go for win in the cup. Does not help our league position but with a favourable draw or an away draw v old firm would mean an extra few hundred grand which will come in handy should the worst happen. I am going to Raith on Saturday, but genuinely believe that we will have lost up to 500 fans maybe more that would have gone if we were not such a shambles. So expect away crowd of 1000-1500 as opposed to 1500-2000+. If we lose to Raith he should be gone by Sunday / Monday as we could be looking at 2500 home fans for visit of St Mirren. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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